Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 I have read it. It states you can make one if you are careful about how you word your own fluff. Though my question is if it is in the fluff that they are trying to fix the gene seed then would it be against the fluff and everything of 40k to have the background of my chapter specifically built around the fact that mine is created after the gene seed is fixed? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2900969 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Can't recall ever hearing anyone coming up with a "future" chapter, though this is a fairly unique situation and most DIY chapters are based off SM:Vanilla. Usually, people make pre-heresy chapters, as in past chapters that no longer exist, but I don't see why it couldn't go the other way.. assuming you don't pull out any uber-future tech that decimates all life on a planet, etc. Like I said, you can do whatever. I'm now curious how you resolve the geneseed issue in your fluff and would personally be ok with you calling your army a future successor chapter. Again, I recommend reading Battle of the Fang if you haven't already... there's some good bits on how secretive we are with each other regarding the mutation that you can incorporate into your fluff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2900984 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Grabbing it when I go to my local hobby story later on today. I actually got the idea for a future chapter from the fact that people make older ones. I won't pull out whole future tech seeing as I will progress it only a little. I thought about making it to where they find another planet that can accept the seed and it somehow fixing it but that may cause more problems so I am unsure at this time how I am gonna do it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2900992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 There is no reason not to make a chapter that has some wolf like trades As far as no sw succesor, you dont know that, there is so much sw genseed on terra that they could have don russ knows what. And it being un stable, if i get the bloodraven fluff right there off thousand sons genseed. But in the end someone paid for the arme and can do as he wishes. Just have a look at the space goats, that army won a lot of torny's and no one complained. Just make sure you tell you oponent what book you use and all should be fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 For a good recommendation on how to buy your Space Wolves force, go here and read this. For recommendations on how to design your army, go to the link in my signature block, below. Now, to address some of your other concerns: There are a couple ways to do "counts-as" forces using the Space Wolves codex. The first is to build something that is ironic. Da Wulf Boyz and Goat Boys' Space Goats are perfect examples of how to build an ironic force that uses the Space Wolves codex. Most people applaud work like this, because it takes hard work combined with a great imagination, and everyone knows up front that you aren't to take it seriously. The next way to do it is to develop a "Lost Company". Lost Companies have been separated from the rest of the Chapter either through bad luck (Warp storms), or on purpose (Wolf Lord gets fed up and head out on his own) - and give you the opportunity to do what you want with the paint scheme and design, etc. A Wolf Lord that says to hell with Logan Grimnar and strikes out on his own to establish a mini-Empire on the Easter Fringe can have his men paint their armour however he damn well pleases. This is also an appropriate way to use the SW codex. When random players on the internet, or at your local gaming shop (LGS), ask you about your army, you can explain it to them in such a way that it is acceptable to them, because there is an allowance for this in the established fluff on the Space Wolves. This is our equivalency to the allowance in the fluff for Successor Chapters of the other First Founding Legions. What really won't work, at least not beyond your closest buddies, is to make your own Successor Chapter based off of the Wolves. Why? Well, because the designers have told us, over, and over, and over again that there aren't any. The Space Wolves had one, once, the ill-fated Wolf Brothers Chapter. It no longer exists (although multiple explanations exist on how/why they went away). If you really want to pursue the last option, and decide to create a Successor Chapter anyway, you just need to be prepared for some folks to tell you, "hey, that ain't right." Now, certainly, it is your money, and your hobby; we aren't here to tell you what you can and cannot do; that's up to you. However, you came to the Fang to get the perspective of a community of Space Wolves players, and we are providing you with that. We are being as honest with you as we can; I would expect nothing less from this group of folks. If you go with the Successor Chapter route then you need to be prepared to face a fanbase that will question that. Regards, Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Okay then my question is now this. Is there any of the other chapters I can make a successor chapter from that would go good at count as space wolves? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Okay then my question is now this. Is there any of the other chapters I can make a successor chapter from that would go good at count as space wolves? My vote on that one are the White Scars. Just make sure you max out on Fast Attack choices or have transports for everyone. that way it'll appeal to the fluff of both chapters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902326 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Okay then my question is now this. Is there any of the other chapters I can make a successor chapter from that would go good at count as space wolves? My vote on that one are the White Scars. Just make sure you max out on Fast Attack choices or have transports for everyone. that way it'll appeal to the fluff of both chapters. Is that a main chapter? or a successor one? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Counts as Space Wolves in aesthetics or force organization or both? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 Counts as Space Wolves in aesthetics or force organization or both? Both if it can be done Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Counts as Space Wolves in aesthetics or force organization or both? Both if it can be done Did a pseudo-quick run-through of some chapters. All in the list below were either of an unknown origin or meshed close enough in tactics/aesthetics to blur the lines of how their Chapter is organized. List compiled from here. -Carcharodons -Dark Hunters -Destroyers -White Scars successor -Desert Lions -Emperor's Wolves -Lion Warriors -Lords of Wrath -Marauders -White Scars successor -Masters of Proteus -Rampagers -White Scars successor -Red Wolves -Iron Hands successor with rumors of SW ties -Star Dragons -Storm Lords -White Scars successor -Storm Wardens -recruit similar to SW "Blooding" -mech heavy -Storm Wings -Tigers Argent -White Minotaurs -White Scars -organized into brotherhood companies of roughly 100 -led by a "khan" -emphasis on the tribe A more comprehensive listing of 251+ Chapters can be found here. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902443 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think Ill make my chapter from white scars and have it use the SW codex. I am thinking of calling them the Wolves of Geass Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902532 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emptyedens Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Wolves of Gayness? Couldn't help myself I apologize. Anyway, welcome to the Fang. I enjoyed the temper tantrum and all but really if you are going to come to a hard-core wolves board it would really be nice if you don't poop(maybe that will make it pass the cuss filter?) all over the back story that we love and devote hundreds of hours of time too. You're right, you can do whatever you want with your money, just don't ask us for approval then get pissed and use super caps lock on us when we don't. The back story we have makes us the best damn chapter in all of 40k and if you don't like that back story you can pick one of a million other chapters to base your army on (they all suck compared to us and all but hey what can you do, right?). You can call your army wolves of whatever but to me any successor chapter isn't a Space Wolves chapter. Just my two cents, mind you this is coming from a guy who has a Norse god leading his great company and all, so take it for what it is. Now have some ale, chill out, and try to have a good time! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Okay I apologized for that. Now what I wanna know since I am using the White Scars and making a successor chapter and having them count as do they have to look like the space wolves to be counted as them? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Okay I apologized for that. Now what I wanna know since I am using the White Scars and making a successor chapter and having them count as do they have to look like the space wolves to be counted as them? Not at all. The "counts as" part means that everything must be modelled within a theme if you have a "wolf tail talisman" It must be modelled, but using a "counts as" it could be a "lizard skull talisman". The important part is it should not be ambiguous so an opponent has trouble realising what is what, and it should be consistent throughout the army, so all the items of a particular sort are the same or at least very similar. Colour scheme can be anything you want if it's a successor chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICHD? Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Not meaning to condone a hissy-fit, and slightly off topic, but I had a similar problem with a Luna Wolves army I wanted to do years ago. My basic idea, which was admittedly slightly convoluted, was that a company of Luna Wolves had somehow disobeyed Horus and were sent on a mission as punishment. They got lost in the Warp (where time has no meaning), and since they couldn't/hadn't completed their mission, they were struck from Imperial Records. Anyway, sometime in the 41st Millenium, they come out of the warp in the middle of a Chaos fleet attacking an Imperial fleet with the Imps getting their butts handed to them. They save the Imperials, are subjected to Inquisitorial testing, who decide they can stick around as long as they have an Inquisitor and his retinue (told you it was a while ago) with them at all times. It was a little silly I admit, but it kinda did make sense, but everyone I talked to was like "Oh no, that'd never work, that's stupid" etc etc. Doesn't the hobby lend itself to things that are a little daft sometimes? C'mon, we're talking about a universe where genetically-engineered supermen fight monsters made from the essence of human emotion and reality, Space Communist Cows get blasted for trying to share the love and Evil Space Elves drink wine made from souls!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902733 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Whereas I can appreciate the difficulty in pulling that off, the main issue (which I don't care to re-hash) was advocating the attempt at creating a viable and fluff-respective successor chapter to the Space Wolves, which as Valerian mentioned, the designers have all but beaten the fan-base over the head with lore stating that has never happened, save for the Wolf Brothers. At any rate, that debate (I hope) is more or less settled to the point where everyone has moved on for the purposes of this thread. /beaten_dead_horse The task now, per the OP, is finding a way of building a White Scars successor chapter that melds with the ideals, organization, and I think model aesthetics of the Space Wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2902958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac the knife Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Easy brother, Wulfbane is attempting to help you fit into fluff to make your life easier if you run into those who are lore fiends. There are other chapters you can use and do quiet well with and still use the SW dex if you so choose. You can also make a DIY chapter and make it however you want even using the wolf dex if you'd like. There may be other chapters out there that fight and act like the wolves. They may even have deficiencies in their geneseed that are similar to the Space wolves if you choose to make them that way. There are a few rules when it comes to fluff however, There was only one SW successor and it met an untimely end. the cursed founding has many chapters who have disappeared or were never fully documented (AKA you can make your own) where the Mechanicus was playing with geneseed. You could hint if your writing an Index Astartes article that they have close ties or share a genetic similarity or quirk with the SWs but since all records were lost there can only be towards it. In addition, there are even a number of official SM Chapters who don't have records of who their original legion was. For an example see Blood Ravens. So do what you want with your miniatures. Paint them how you want and use whatever codex fits your playstyle but try help your chapter fit within the universe it's more interesting for you and for those of us on the board it makes for an interesting read. Here in the Fang we don't attack our brothers we just point things out in a blunt and Fenrisian way. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2903013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
G3rman Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'd respectfully go against the judgment of White Scars and Wolves being that similar. Vikings =/= Mongolian Raiders. But, I guess you had to throw a bone to get it settled right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2903507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'd respectfully go against the judgment of White Scars and Wolves being that similar. Vikings =/= Mongolian Raiders. But, I guess you had to throw a bone to get it settled right? Mongolian Raiders =/= Roman Legions But, Holy Terra Batman, if those two seemingly dissimilar doctrines aren't both crammed into the exact same army list... Whodathunkit?!?!? My suggestion of the White Scars was of another fairly feral looking chapter who are known to be fierce with a less high tech chapter planet. Care to suggest any other chapter that would fit the bill better? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2903531 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'd respectfully go against the judgment of White Scars and Wolves being that similar. Vikings =/= Mongolian Raiders. But, I guess you had to throw a bone to get it settled right? The thinking behind White Scars *successors*, and not White Scars themselves, was to find/create a Chapter that not only had strong tribal ties (what the rest of the Imperium might call "barbaric"), but also a potential willingness to break away from the standard Codex Astartes regimented structure and adopt a more clan-based, individually all-encompassing company (or tribe) to form your armies from. With a White Scars successor Chapter, Nephos can claim the use of the Space Wolves codex to mimic their feral nature and "barbaric" tribal organization, instead of the White Scars themselves, which despite their ferociousness, still have a Codex Astartes-compliant force organization. The use of having it be a successor can allow for a loss in such organizational mandates. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2903549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nephos Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 With a White Scars successor Chapter, Nephos can claim the use of the Space Wolves codex to mimic their feral nature and "barbaric" tribal organization, instead of the White Scars themselves, which despite their ferociousness, still have a Codex Astartes-compliant force organization. The use of having it be a successor can allow for a loss in such organizational mandates. That is why I followed the advice here and choose white scars. I like to think of myself as a good story writer so I can make it work rather well. As for the tantrum thing like I have said before im over it so for the sake of me getting helped with my army and this thread we move past that. Plus im good now just chillin with my wolf brothers and drinking some ale Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240329-new-to-40k-and-space-wolves/page/2/#findComment-2904204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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