Fallen Grey Knights

[Iron Lord]

True, the Inquisitor does say in the next episode "I must examine the remains of the daemon, and its Sororitas host" (and finds a Mark of Slaanesh on the host's forehead)

 

But- how'd that Sister come to be daemon-possessed in the first place? After all, Stern was the only survivor of the first investigation of the Order of Blessed Inquiry picked up on the planet. And "Astaroth claimed those of you not strong enough to resist him"- so there were Sisters "claimed" by Astaroth- and warped. They later attack Hand, Stern, and the other survvors of the Hammer of Thor.

 

Some daemon possession does not require the consent of the host- the process of creating a Daemonhost, for example, in Inquisitor & Dark Heresy.

 

Other daemon possession can- the trader's sister in Eye of Terror.

 

In any case "she was possessed, therefore she didn't Fall" does not automatically follow.

[*Furyou Miko]

I believe it had something to do with the Navigator she was consulting with - and he was a cultist. Incidentally, the sight of him in congress with that daemonette is one of those things that can never be unseen, no matter how much one may wish it. ><

 

I will grant you that the nature of her relationship with the navigator is unclear, but it's obvious what the Inquistor thinks was going on. On the other hand, he was a total misogynistic douche, so...

 

I have no idea what happened to the Sisters who were 'not strong enough to resist', but it is possible that they were hosting lesser daemons, or that they did just lose the will to fight and their faith in the Emperor.

 

Hey, if we acknowledge that those Sisters might have fallen, does that mean the Ecclesiarchy can have spaceships again? ;) (Since everyone believes that 'no men under arms' means no space-worthy vessels...)

[Iron Lord]

They did look a little like "Sister" versions of chaos possessed marines- not quite as mutated though.

 

The "Ecclesiarchy battleship Hammer of Thor" does raise some interesting questions. Maybe under the comic's interpretation "men under arms" refers solely to ground troopers".

 

Deamonifuge does seem to have left an imprint on other GW sources- there's a pic of Silas Hand in the Inquisitor rulebook, and several Dark Heresy books have pics from the comic. As well as a feat for Sisters, illustrated with a comic cover pic- Denounced & Condemned (page 36 of The Radical's Handbook)

 

It grants the ability to "see the state of the person's soul"- like the Soul Sight psychic power.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Nowhere in the novel did it ever state that Alaric fell to Chaos. He is in fact fully re-instated as a brother Grey Knight which would not be possible otherwise. :)

 

G ;)

[Something Wycked]

Nowhere in the novel did it ever state that Alaric fell to Chaos. He is in fact fully re-instated as a brother Grey Knight which would not be possible otherwise. :lol:

You kind of have that backwards, mate. The book shows that he falls to Chaos, and it does not say that he is reinstated as a Grey Knight :cuss

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I am going to read the last chapter again - what you said is not the way I remember it.

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Alaric#.Tqblbrd5nTo

 

G :cuss

[Something Wycked]

Lexicanum has it basically right. Quoting:

 

 

He was briefly driven insane when the lord that captured him tried to have him possessed to make him a better competitor, and during this time he seemed to behave in a manner similar to a Khorne berserker, reveling in the bloodshed until he returns to his senses. *snip* ... triggering a civil war that (accidentally) earned him the favor of Khorne. *snip* Alaric eventually makes his way back to the Inquisition.

 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here is the spoiler:

 

"He was briefly driven insane when the lord that captured him tried to have him possessed to make him a better competitor, and during this time he seemed to behave in a manner similar to a Khorne berserker, reveling in the bloodshed until he returns to his senses. *snip* ... triggering a civil war that (accidentally) earned him the favor of Khorne. *snip* Alaric eventually makes his way back to the Inquisition."

 

Not the same by any means as fallen to Chaos and by your own admission this is correct. If he had fallen why would he return to the Imperium, in particular the =][=.

 

G :angry:

[Something Wycked]

Way to spoil it for people :D And save the "by your own admission" stuff. I said it was basically right- not completely.

 

Insanity is a big part of Chaos. Alaric lost his mind to Chaos. This is defined as falling to Chaos, willing or not. You don't have to knowingly choose to serve Chaos to fall to Chaos.

 

We've been over this next part before, but it appears I have to restate it :P While not conscious of his behavior due to the fragmented nature of his mind, Alaric was a famous Khornate gladiator who performed for the pleasure of human and daemonic audiences and Khorne himself. Alaric himself can't recount how many humans, xenos, and daemons he sacrificed to the Skull Throne in the arena. He didn't choose to fall- he fought it with all his might, which is exactly what saved him when he returned to the Inquisitor who he was working for. But that does not negate the fact that he did, indeed, fall. ^_^

[Iron Lord]

Maybe his "unconsciousness" gets around the "No Grey knight has foresworn his vows and turned to serve those powers he was created to fight".

 

To qualify as "foreswearing his vows" it has to be a conscious decision?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You guys are certainly entitled to your opinions. I have nothing more to add at this time.

 

G :D

[Something Wycked]

To qualify as "foreswearing his vows" it has to be a conscious decision?

Absolutely. But the contention in this thread is "fallen" Grey Knights :)

I have nothing more to add at this time.

Then why did you post? :D

 

I'll get you some quotes after I get home that will clear things up nicely.

[Jacinda]

Oh, I'm fairly sure Draigo is an Agent of the Changer through and through at this point.

 

How the hell else does a guy who's trapped in the warp and can only pop up in realspace in times of great crisis end up being made Chapter Master?

 

I believe the answer to that question is "Matt Ward, that's how."

 

-Stormshrug

HAHAHAH!!

*pounds desk and falls to floor laughing*

 

It's funny 'cause it true.

 

[ETA]

 

I wonder if the next C:SoB will have the Abbess of the Adepta Sororitas be a psyker with a retinue of converted daemonetts. :D

[Iron Lord]

It's worth remembering he wasn't "trapped in the warp., and can only pop up in realspace in times of great crisis" till 100 years after he was made Chapter Master.

[Murcielago]

You guys do know that Ben Counter wrote another short story about Alaric that takes place after that whole incident with the gladiator place right?

 

It's in the book "Victories of the Space Marines"

[Iron Lord]

Yes- Sacrifice.

 

In that, "innocent blood" seems to be "a bane to the daemonic".

 

Maybe that's a precursor to the whole "Sister blood" issue that got people so upset?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can you give us a synopsis?

 

G :D

[Iron Lord]

Here:

 

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Victories_...nes_(Anthology)

 

it's listed as a prequel to Hammer of Daemons- why's that?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If he fell to Chaos he wouldn't have returned to the Imperium. He was caught in an incredible circumstance and made the best of it. To me he is a hero in every sense of the word. I can easily see Alaric being named a Saint immediately upon his death. Yes.

 

G ;)

[Something Wycked]

BO, I can agree with every sentence but the first ;) Caught in an incredible circumstance, he went insane and slaughtered uncounted beings for Khorne before righting his mind and making the best of it. He's still completely a hero and will certainly be named a saint. Right after he's killed by daemonic forces while serving as an Inquisitor ;)

 

Iron Lord: There's likely references inside the story that place it between Hammer of Daemons and Dark Adeptus, but I'm just assuming since I haven't read the short story.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think you over exaggerate your position.

 

G ;)

[*Furyou Miko]

I think you're wilfully blind and ignoring the facts, BO. :P

 

Now I'm curious. What "Sister blood" thing?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Grey Knights sacrificed a unit according to Mat Ward for a blood ritual - sacrifice.

 

G :P

[*Furyou Miko]

Yep, GKs fall to Chaos.

 

Blood Sacrifices are NOT sanctioned Imperial magics.

[Something Wycked]

NOTE: If you want to read the GK books and not have them spoiled, don't read this post. I've tried to keep things spoiler tagged but BO has directly quoted the text out from under the spoiler tag, so I'm not going to try anymore :)

 

GK Omnibus, page 762:

 

"You fear corruption," said Nyxos.

"I do. More than anything. I know what fear is now."

Nyxos smiled again. He was a very old man, probably centuries old, and even by Inquisitorial standards he had done a sterling job of avoiding death. He had probably seen just about every strange and terrible form corruption could take, but a Grey Knight who had fallen was beyond any of that. "Alaric, there are ways you can be purified. It is not easy, or painless, but it can be done. We have ways."

"Can I fight as a Grey Knight again?"

"Ah, what an interesting question. There is more than one way for a Grey Knight to serve, and many more for you... How many Grey Knights could have survived on Drakasi? Ignoring whether it was right or not, how many could have thought it up in the first place?"

"Not many," admitted Alaric.

"... I dare say my word would get you back into the training halls at Titan, if that is where you can best serve, but matters at the Eye are reaching a dire state and we need more than just soldiers, even Grey Knights." Nyxos dusted his hands on his long dark robes and stood up. "Our shuttle leaves in two hours. Say some prayers and forgive yourself for a while. Think about what you can do for your Emperor, instead of what sins you committed in the past. I have some very particular plans for you, Justicar Alaric. You might be surprised just what a man of your skills can achieve..."

 

The narrator comes right out and says Alaric had fallen- and Inquisitor Nyxos doesn't quite come right out and say he wants to make Alaric into an Inquisitor rather than let him go back to Titan as a Grey Knight.