Caradepato Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Chapter scheme (Marine is of the 2nd company): http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/Caradepato1/spacemarine.jpg Chapter badge: http://i1196.photobucket.com/albums/aa408/Caradepato1/namnls.jpg The Knights of Dorn are a Imperial fists successor chapter of the 15th founding. They are based on their homeworld of Lusitania, a feudal world, to the galactic north of Avignor in the Segmentum Obscurus. They are a codex astartes compliant chapter for the most part. Chapter Organization Company organisation The Knights of Dorn are organized into ten companies as is mandated by the codex astartes. An interesting difference is that, unlike most codex compliant chapters, the battle companies are divided by lineage, each on of them composed of marines hailing from a semi-mythical ancestor. Each of the tactical squads are composed solely marines from a specific extended family within that lineage. When a marine earns his place as a full battle brother, he is placed in the 6th or 7th reserve companies until a place is available for him in his family squad or he is promoted to veteran status. Another interesting organisational shift is that rather then organizing the devestator squads in their battle companies into two squads of ten, they organize them into four squads of five. This is to maximize the amount of heavy weaponry a company is able to field independently Because of a shortage of tanks. The chapter lost most of its original tanks in an early campaign against orks. Also, with no capability of manufacturing tanks on their own and with their huge distance from any forge world they replace lost vehicles in a very slow rate. A note on the recruitment methods of the Knights of Dorn Whenever the chapter command feel like they need a new influx of recruits great tournaments are held at the chapters various fortresses that dot the six continents of Lusitania, the grandest being held outside the Turris Signum*, the main gatehouse of the Knight's fortress-monestary. Although these are full fledged tournaments, including everything from boxing to jousting, the main event are the pages trials. It is only this phase of the tournament that is actively observed by the astartes themselves. Three marines, usually the most senior officer accompanies by two battle brothers, grace the people with their presence. For the people of Lusitania, this is the main event and thousands of people will flock to the tournaments just to catch a glimpse of the emperors great warriors. The pages trials begin in a simple free for all melee where the young aspirants fight each other in order to gain a place in the following tests. The next event is known as the cynoceran fights. In this event, the aspirants are placed in teams of three and, as per Lusitanian tradition, wrestle with horse-sized, four horned mammel like reptiles known as cynocer. The aspirants attempt to grab onto their horns, and as a team, exhaust them and wrestle them to the ground. The third event is a test where the aspirants must once again fight each other, bun now unarmed and in single combat. The last of the tests in where the remaining candidates must take on the present astartes officer as a group. The ones who have displayed the most physical strength, mental function, refusal to give up and ability to work as a team are then admitted to begin their long training as an Astartes. Note that success in the trials arent actually needed in order to be admitted. The pages are not epected to succeed in all of the trials, the last one being seen as an impossible task. Rather, it is how they set about trying to achieve them. Beliefs The Knights of Dorn venerate not only the emperor and Dorn, but all of the loyal primarchs. On the world of Lusitania, each of them is venerated and prayed to, and shrines to their honor dot the landscape. Dorn is considered the greatest among them for standing alongside the emperor during the siege of terra as well as being the one that interred him within the golden throne, and every cathedral to the emperor will always have a wing dedicated to Dorn. The Knights themselves do not view the Emperor as a god, but rather a divine individual; the representation of the ultimate form of humanity and the rightful ruler of all mankind. Doctrine The Knights of Dorn prefer close range engagements, be it close combat or at the end of short ranged weaponry. They believe that close ranged combat is both personal and honerable, and see it as both a way of winning glory for themselves and the chapter, and also as a way to intimidate the enemy. Despite this, they place a great value upon their devestator squads because of their lack of heavy armor. Most tactical squads will carry flamers and melta weapons, prefering close ranged weaponry. A note on the society of Lusitania and its effect on The Knights of Dorn The Knights of Dorn's homeworld of Lusitania is a feudal world, locked into a permanent pre-gunpowder state of technology. This is ensured by several agents of the chapter. There are a couple of reasons for this: The battlefields of Lusitania is a great training ground for any eventual future astartes. In order to understand the organization of the Knights of Dorn, one must also understand the social structure of Lusitania itself. The land is divided amongst many petty nobles, knights, who's allegiances shift from one ruler to the next with the tides of war. In return for serving any particular ruler, they are expected to fight for his behalf in any war. However, joining with a strong ruler ensures that ones land is protected from harm, as they are expected to protect the land of every knight who are loyal to them. The title of knight can only be gained through heritage, being descended from one of the four great leaders who revolted against Lusitanias former overlords during the great crusade and aided the Emperors legions. Over time, their real deeds have long since faded into legend, as the tales of their bravery are almost certainly exaggerated. What is known is that the Emperor left them in positions of power within Lusitania, and since then their descendants have ruled the land. (note: a persons lineage is counted from only his paternal line) The title of Knight is, however, also one that must be achieved through merit. A Knight is expected to have already fought in several campaigns and win great honor in one of the many great tournies that are held around the world. As such, heritage is a very important thing for the Knights of Dorn. Loyalty is first to the emperor, next to the chapter and primarch, and then to the lineage v.s.v their company. An interesting part of Lusitanian culture is that one's family lineage does not necessarily effect ones loyalty in the planetary politics. It is perfectly normal for one brother to follow one lord and another to follow his rival. Therefore, there little real hostility between different families, and the hostility that does exist is mostly destroyed in the training of the astartes, as the scout and reserve chapters are completely mixed, theoretically dissolving any emnities. The battle companies are encouraged to develop a friendly rivalry, not a hostile one. geenseed They have no Betchers Gland, which is common for imperial fists sucessors. otherwise mostly pure. This chapter is still very much a work in progress, and ill add more ideas and thoughts as i go along. As many of you can figure out, they are heavily based on the order of christ and their forerunners, the knights templar. any advice and ideas are very much welcome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240445-the-knights-of-dorn/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace Debonair Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 That. Colour. Scheme. Is. Magnificent. ;) I just wanted to be clear on that - I wholeheartedly approve of this colour scheme. Welcome to the Liber! Hopefully your stay proves to be a fruitful and beneficial one. Well, it seems you've only got some bare-bones ideas up to now, but they're pretty good ones. They're good and solid, more-or-less-standard marines, without being uninteresting. Good stuff. I'd like to hear more about how this 'lineage company' stuff got started, myself. Could be fun to explore what kind of mentality promotes the 'bloodline only' approach to organising that your Chapter's taken on. I've heard it mentioned on these forums that it's the AdMech who makes your lads their tanks and similar. Perhaps the closest forgeworld has recently sustained some damage? That could help explain why your lads are reluctant to use any tanks they've got (and why they might not have many) - there's now no guarantee you can pick up a replacement in the event of things going badly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240445-the-knights-of-dorn/#findComment-2902708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caradepato Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thank you for the friendly welcome, Ace Debonair. I took ages to decide that scheme, you have no idea. A note on the society of Lusitania and its effect on The Knights of Dorn The Knights of Dorn's homeworld of Lusitania is a feudal world, locked into a permanent pre-gunpowder state of technology. This is ensured by several agents of the chapter. There are a couple of reasons for this: The battlefields of Lusitania is a great training ground for any eventual future astartes. In order to understand the organization of the Knights of Dorn, one must also understand the social structure of Lusitania itself. The land is divided amongst many petty nobles, knights, who's allegiances shift from one ruler to the next with the tides of war. In return for serving any particular ruler, they are expected to fight for his behalf in any war. However, joining with a strong ruler ensures that ones land is protected from harm, as they are expected to protect the land of every knight who are loyal to them. The title of knight can only be gained through heritage, being descended from one of the four great leaders who revolted against Lusitanias former overlords during the great crusade and aided the Emperors legions. Over time, their real deeds have long since faded into legend, as the tales of their bravery are almost certainly exaggerated. What is known is that the Emperor left them in positions of power within Lusitania, and since then their descendants have ruled the land. (note: a persons lineage is counted from only his paternal line) The title of Knight is, however, also one that must be achieved through merit. A Knight is expected to have already fought in several campaigns and win great honor in one of the many great tournies that are held around the world. As such, heritage is a very important thing for the Knights of Dorn. Loyalty is first to the emperor, next to the chapter and primarch, and then to the lineage v.s.v their company. An interesting part of Lusitanian culture is that one's family lineage does not necessarily effect ones loyalty in the planetary politics. It is perfectly normal for one brother to follow one lord and another to follow his rival. Therefore, there little real hostility between different families, and the hostility that does exist is mostly destroyed in the training of the astartes, as the scout and reserve chapters are completely mixed, theoretically dissolving any emnities. The battle companies are encouraged to develop a friendly rivalry, not a hostile one. Does this make sense? Any comments or critiscisms? -edit- A note on personal heraldry As one can imagine, personal heraldry is a big deal for individuals hailing from such a feudal backround. In fact, each tactical squad in the battle companies carries a banner depicting the heraldry of their respective branch family (Note, in the countless years since the 15th founding the heraldry on Lusitania has kept on evolving, hence the banners are inevitable archaic and therefore quite unique from what is seen on the planet. Due to the influence of the astartes, however, these banners have not been forgotten by the educated populace). Once an astartes is promoted to veteran status, he gains the right to display his own personal heraldry on the right shoulder plate, where the squad markings would usually be. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240445-the-knights-of-dorn/#findComment-2902753 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caradepato Posted October 19, 2011 Author Share Posted October 19, 2011 A note on the recruitment methods of the Knights of Dorn Whenever the chapter command feel like they need a new influx of recruits great tournaments are held at the chapters various fortresses that dot the six continents of Lusitania, the grandest being held outside the Turris Signum*, the main gatehouse of the Knight's fortress-monestary. Although these are full fledged tournaments, including everything from boxing to jousting, the main event are the pages trials. It is only this phase of the tournament that is actively observed by the astartes themselves. Three marines, usually the most senior officer accompanies by two battle brothers, grace the people with their presence. For the people of Lusitania, this is the main event and thousands of people will flock to the tournaments just to catch a glimpse of the emperors great warriors. The pages trials begin in a simple free for all melee where the young aspirants fight each other in order to gain a place in the following tests. The next event is known as the cynoceran fights. In this event, the aspirants are placed in teams of three and, as per Lusitanian tradition, wrestle with horse-sized, four horned mammel like reptiles known as cynocer. The aspirants attempt to grab onto their horns, and as a team, exhaust them and wrestle them to the ground. The third event is a test where the aspirants must once again fight each other, bun now unarmed and in single combat. The last of the tests in where the remaining candidates must take on the present astartes officer as a group. The ones who have displayed the most physical strength, mental function, refusal to give up and ability to work as a team are then admitted to begin their long training as an Astartes. Note that success in the trials arent actually needed in order to be admitted. The pages are not epected to succeed in all of the trials, the last one being seen as an impossible task. Rather, it is how they set about trying to achieve them. *Tower of Banners Note, none noble groups individuals, such as mercenaries or proffesional soldiers, who perform well in the main tournament are admitted into Lusitanias PDF force, which garrisons and maintains its several fortresses, as well as produces soldiers for the imperial guard. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240445-the-knights-of-dorn/#findComment-2903881 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKO Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Something I have noticed about alot of the writers we tend to explain things in our replys instead of our actual diy info, try to add the parts to your diy instead of your replys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240445-the-knights-of-dorn/#findComment-2904102 Share on other sites More sharing options...
PorridgeMeister Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Following what others have said, I would suggest that you prioritize fleshing out the IA. I do like the under-riding Portuguese theme. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240445-the-knights-of-dorn/#findComment-2904624 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caradepato Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 @ CKO do you mean like i have done now? @ PorridgeMeister Yeah, im trying to make them Portoguese without overdoing it; for example, the heraldry of the different squads will be the coat of arms of different towns that i have a connection to. Do you think it is subtle yet noticable enough? Ok, so ive updated the chapter organisation and tried to find a good reason for the lack of tanks (the real reason being i hate painting them), and tell me if it makes sense. Also, ive further defined Lusitanias location as well as updating the Chapter beliefs a tad. Compiled all the "notes" ive made in the first post, which is what i think CKO suggested doing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240445-the-knights-of-dorn/#findComment-2905300 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzaren Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 The Knights of Dorn are organized into ten companies as is mandated by the codex astartes. An interesting difference is that, unlike most codex compliant chapters, the battle companies are divided by lineage, each on of them composed of marines hailing from a semi-mythical ancestor. Wait... All of your marines are related, before getting the gene-seed? If each company is the descendant of a great ancestor, I find it incredibly hard to believe that you have a full sized chapter. Less than 1% of possible recruits taken by the Space Marines are able to accept the geneseed without rejection. If you take 100 recruits, you will have 1 marine, on average. This means that it would be nearly impossible to gather the required number of compatible trainees from within an extended family. This is a stretch... Each of the tactical squads are composed solely marines from a specific extended family within that lineage. When a marine earns his place as a full battle brother, he is placed in the 6th or 7th reserve companies until a place is available for him in his family squad or he is promoted to veteran status. I'm not entirely sure, but I feel like this is an attempt to follow a real life practice that you are drawing inspiration from? If it is, the translation to 40k is going to be VERY difficult, as mentioned above. Another interesting organisational shift is that rather then organizing the devestator squads in their battle companies into two squads of ten, they organize them into four squads of five. This is to maximize the amount of heavy weaponry a company is able to field independently Because of a shortage of tanks. The chapter lost most of its original tanks in an early campaign against orks. Also, with no capability of manufacturing tanks on their own and with their huge distance from any forge world they replace lost vehicles in a very slow rate. That's actually not a huge change. Dividing the the squads into 5 man units is a common and accepted practice by the Codex Astartes. Huge distances aren't really a factor in the 40k world. If distance was a problem, a galactic empire would crumble in weeks. Warp travel, while inaccurate at best, enables the resupply of even the most far-flung chapters. If you don't like tanks, I propose the same thing I propose to everyone else who hates tanks, trade them. For every chapter that thinks tanks are pointless, there is a chapter that LOVES tanks, but hates artificer armor. Trading between chapters will allow you specialize to any degree you want, while allowing you to have the fun little quirks about a lack of tanks. My suggestion is to just say that the Knights of Dorn have traded their tanks and heavy vehicles for X, to better accommodate their preferred style of warfare. The ones who have displayed the most physical strength, mental function, refusal to give up and ability to work as a team are then admitted to begin their long training as an Astartes. Note that success in the trials arent actually needed in order to be admitted. The pages are not epected to succeed in all of the trials, the last one being seen as an impossible task. Rather, it is how they set about trying to achieve them. While rather interesting, the trials aren't altogether unique. Every Chapter has tests and tournaments to determine the worthy recruits. Instead of simply stating what these events are, describe how they color the chapter, which is the focus of your article. Does their proclivity for teamwork enhancing recruitment carry over to the Astartes combat style? Do recruits of a tournament that succeed together stay in a squad together, continually building that team relationship? Do they refer to things that are difficult, as "Wrestling the Cynocer?" The Knights of Dorn prefer close range engagements, be it close combat or at the end of short ranged weaponry. They believe that close ranged combat is both personal and honerable, and see it as both a way of winning glory for themselves and the chapter, and also as a way to intimidate the enemy. Despite this, they place a great value upon their devestator squads because of their lack of heavy armor. Most tactical squads will carry flamers and melta weapons, prefering close ranged weaponry. Do they have a greater than average grouping of Vanguard Vets and a slightly lower grouping of Sternguard Vets? The title of knight can only be gained through heritage, being descended from one of the four great leaders who revolted against Lusitanias former overlords during the great crusade and aided the Emperors legions. Over time, their real deeds have long since faded into legend, as the tales of their bravery are almost certainly exaggerated. What is known is that the Emperor left them in positions of power within Lusitania, and since then their descendants have ruled the land. (note: a persons lineage is counted from only his paternal line) See this is hard to understand. Unless the 4 great leaders had thousands of kids, the idea of tracing back descent all the way to the 4, only through the father's side, is a bit... hard to believe. Also distressing is the idea that this lineage is the only way to knighthood. An interesting part of Lusitanian culture is that one's family lineage does not necessarily effect ones loyalty in the planetary politics. It is perfectly normal for one brother to follow one lord and another to follow his rival. Therefore, there little real hostility between different families, and the hostility that does exist is mostly destroyed in the training of the astartes, as the scout and reserve chapters are completely mixed, theoretically dissolving any emnities. The battle companies are encouraged to develop a friendly rivalry, not a hostile one. So, you said earlier that all recruits are descended from these 4 guys, which I thought was tough, and now you are having family units be recruited together? The compatibility rate with gene-seed is staggeringly low, and the idea that you are having brothers and cousins all being brought in the Astartes together is a little odd. Also, I'm not sure if you are saying that you only recruit knights, or if I just took that assumption, but recruits are usually age 9-14, which is generally too young to be involved in lots of campaigns and what not. Again, that could just be me drawing conclusions without basis. They have no Betchers Gland, which is common for imperial fists sucessors. otherwise mostly pure. The Fists and their successors are missing both the Betcher's Gland, as well as the Sus-An Membrane. Unless you figured out how to fix this issue, you are also missing your Sus-An Membrane. This chapter is still very much a work in progress, and ill add more ideas and thoughts as i go along. As many of you can figure out, they are heavily based on the order of christ and their forerunners, the knights templar. any advice and ideas are very much welcome. Looks good, with lots of solid ideas. However, I think you're trying to carry too many of the practices of these real world orders over into 40k and they are not transitioning well. The idea of all the world being descended from 4 guys is a little hard to swallow, and you are really stretching by having all your marines follow this. Not to mention the idea that all of your chapter is related. Again, just some things that might not transition well. Otherwise, it's a very good start. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240445-the-knights-of-dorn/#findComment-2905353 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roesor Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Looks good :( Of course I'd play the name down around Templars if they meet any. We are the true knights of Dorn after all >_> Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240445-the-knights-of-dorn/#findComment-2905369 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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