dragonknight4275 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 There's a great guy at my local GW named =][= CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION CENSORED BY ORDER OF THE HOLY IMPERIAL INQUISITION =][= who I'm good friends with. I've managed to corner him and get him on the table about four times, and he's tabled me EVERY SINGLE TIME. It frustrates me. I must create an army that can beat him! Here is his list. Some of you might not find it hard to beat, and I think the problem is that I hide for three turns and basically let him do whatever he wants while I fire potshots from a lascannon every once in a while because I'm too terrified to take on six Obliterators hidden in cover. But then I get Lashed out and have to face them anyway....... Well, here's the list. HQ Daemon Prince w/ Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission - 155 points Daemon Prince w/ Wings, Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission - 155 points EL Chaos Dreadnought w/ plasma cannon - 105 points Chaos Dreadnought w/ plasma cannon - 105 points TP 9x Thousand Sons w/ Winds of Chaos, Rhino - 272 points 9x Thousand Sons w/ Winds of Chaos, Rhino - 272 points HS Chaos Vindicator w/ Daemonic Possession, dozer blade - 150 points 3x Obliterators - 225 points 3x Obliterators - 225 points That's about the best I remember from our last 1750 game, although he still had 85 points leftover that I either didn't know about or were upgrades...... I got the points cost from games-workshop. Good ol' site. NOW HOW TO BEAT IT??????????????? It might help that I just got another Storm Raven. Don't worry, I have a LOT of Blood Angels stuff, so throw together a list with just about anything and chances are I'll have it. PLEASE HELP! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Memories Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 What is your list? My first suggestion would be land raiders and a generally mechanized list. Make him pop your LRs from range with lascannon pot shots and proceed to demolish his oblits. 6 Oblits is 2 rounds of shooting from a LR, 2 razors and 2 preds, give or take. Take a mechanized force neutralizes the effectiveness of those princes and plasma dreads. Also Mephiston tears chaos in half. Any DP not with the MoT is just utterly obliterated by mephiston, as are dreads and oblits. Chaos doesn't have particularly great ways of dealing with super heavy armor or boss-mode characters like mephiston with a list like that, so take advantage. You don't need tons of firepower or assault troops or to out shoot him, just move around him and stay protected, you should do fine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902522 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Mephiston is not a sure thing against chaos marines, The number of times I have heard of mephiston being lashed out of cover and then vapourised by obliterators with lots of AP1-2 weaponry. With no invul save he can be a very expensive target dummy Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902527 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellios Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think you need to be more aggressive. Punch a hole through those dreads and princes... take off the demolisher cannon if you can... and ride forward in your fancy transports to kick oblits and 1ksons in the face. A psychic hood might help as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902544 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The fact that you're trying to outgunline a gunline army when they have superior firepower is... well it's dumb, plain and simple. You need to play what he isn't good at, and that's combat and objectives. He lacks numbers and durability, and relies entirely on a gimmick that you can shut down quite easily in the army building stage. His Plasma Cannons/blast templates require him to Lash units out of cover into close-order formations. In order to get Lash off he needs to be in range, and have zero opposition in the psychic department. He also needs infantry to shoot at, otherwise he's firing at transports (ideally in cover, or covered by Shield of Sanguinius) and is just like every other army, but worse. Take a Librarian. Mech up your units. Suddenly his Lash is quite ineffective until he eliminates the transports, and he still has to bypass the Psychic Hood. If you add Shield of Sanguinius, that's another layer of defense that he must eat through before he can get to your infantry. Oblits are only base Toughness 4. Missiles and Lascannons kill them quite fast. As for Thousand Sons, they're still "just Space Marines". Toughness 4, with a 3+ save. Sure their bolters are AP3. They're still just Strength 4, which bounces of Rhino chassis and more. De-mech them, make them walk, and when necessary fight them in combat where they die just as quickly as regular marines. Mephiston will make a mess of the army (as already mentioned), and adds another Psychic Hood to the table to shut down those Lashes. You don't even need to tailor a specific army to beat this Chaos list, because it plays one gimmick and only one. The moment you force this army to do something it wasn't designed to do (that is, eliminate/mitigate effectiveness of Lash, playing objectives, etc.)) and suddenly his army falls apart. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902559 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 If you were mechanized, his list wouldn't even be a thing, but presumably that's not what you're going for. Some details about your list/collection would help a lot in advice. A Librarian will make things a lot more difficult for him; not only will the Hood shut down his powers, but being able to give yourself a 5+ cover save in the open will ruin a lot of his plans. If you have shooting of your own, aim it at his Obliterators/Vindicator- they are the real threat in the list, not the Lashes. Side Armor 11 and 5++/W2 mean that Missiles/Lascannons will do horrible things to both of them- if you're running a Stormraven, a volley aimed at his Oblit unit should take it off the field pretty easily. The Dreads are basically not a threat at all. Make sure you maneuver so he'll have to "see" his own units and potentially shoot them to death and you'll be fine; a single Plasma Cannon is just not dangerous, even with Lash around. The Princes are reasonably dangerous in CC, but not particularly tough at all, so shooting them will do just fine, or charging them with a good combat unit. In fact, his list as a whole is bad at combat for the most part, so if you can get a "good" unit in CC with him he should fall apart pretty quickly- Thousand Sons are horrible at melee, Obliterators are slow, etc. Your Stormraven makes delivering some Sanguine Guard, Assault Terminators, or Death Company. Let us know what kind of army you have/are going for and we can give a lot better advice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902579 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear of Achilles Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 That you're having trouble with this list with blood angels of all things is disturbing. Just drop in/combat squad some assault troops with meltas with a libby and sang priest and some death copmpany...you should carve up those oblits with instant death melta. Blood lance will cake them too. A Flying libby dread will also negate a lot of lash. That's of course if you are not using storm ravens to dump out death company within assault range of the oblits or fast rhinos to get assault squads on them. Obltis only have 5+ Invulns. Feel no pain is still fairly effective vs AP 3 Son's bolters. Plus they only get 1 attack in melee because they don't have true grit/multiple combat weapons (or even frag/krak grenades). Getting them on foot and melee'ing Sons is an easy win. Maybe add a fast Vindicator (or two) with extra armor....scoot 12" and stilld rop STR 10 death on the oblits. if he's smart (or dumb) he will trhow some fire into them to try and kill them, allowing your deep striking assaults a round of no plasma cannon death. it's cheesy tailoring to a foe, but since you asked.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 5 assault marine squads with double melta+fist, combat squad them, Mephiston, squeeze in as many priests as you can(should be 4 priests and 2 combi meltas)... There you have 10 units with a melta in each with feel no pain(some of them anyways), a psychic hood and a melée character that will eat obliterators/daemon princes alive. Ever tried to kill 50 assault marines with feel no pain?, even with plasma cannons: it's hard Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Mech seems to be the best way to deal with the list shown. Maybe 1-2 jumpy units to drop in behind and wipe out the Vindicator/Oblits. Take a pair of Librarians with shield in rhinos to try to stop lashs/winds of chaos. One thing I've seen from TSon players them claim the TSon bolters remove FNP from marines. It doesn't. I don't know if that is going on here or not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Drake Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 He only has 3 tanks, so the Vindicator should be popped early no probs. MM-ABs can do this effectively, as can DOA melta RAS/HG. 2-3 units of Devs all with missile launchers will put those DPs down. Then that leaves his Dreads, meh just melta them. If you have a Librarian try & get Blood Lance off. Finally beat up his TSs (he only has 20) with anything, RAS with FC will deal with them, or DC can tear them apart. Other units that will work well - Honour Guard with melta load-out, Sternguard with combi-meltas (use some Vengeance Rounds against his troops). Obliterators can be a pain but as someone already pointed out you can either instant death them S8 weapons or just charge them & beat them up too (T4 with I1 isn't going to be a problem for BA). Dallas Chances are it's not the list, but the player that you're struggling to beat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think the problem is that I hide for three turns and basically let him do whatever he wants while I fire potshots from a lascannon every once in a while because I'm too terrified to take on six Obliterators hidden in cover. But then I get Lashed out and have to face them anyway you used the same tactics (that werent working) several times against the same list - the rabbit-in-the-headlights approach. This can be fixed. describle your last battle, including your own list, so we can see how you fought it. Some suggestions work with some approaches to gaming, others dont (a gunline player will struggle with an all-or-nothing assault list simply becasue he doesnt necessarily have a feel for when to go for the jugular or hold fire for a turn), but we dont know what your approach is - you may not even know yourself... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2902945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonknight4275 Posted October 18, 2011 Author Share Posted October 18, 2011 Thanks for all the advice, everyone! Here's the list I plan to field against him. I've tried to incorporate transports and tanks, and I think it turned out pretty well, although I have a disappointing number of Troops. HQ Meph - 250 points Libby w/ Termy armour, storm shield, Shield, Rage - 145 points EL 2x Priests - 100 points 6x Assault termies w/ 2x TH/SS, LRC w/ multi-melta - 510 points TP 9x Assault marines w/ fist, melta, rhino - 212 points 10x Assault marines w/ fist, 2x melta, rhino - 240 points HS Storm raven w/ hurricane bolters, TL plasma cannon - 230 points 5x Dev marines w/ 2x las, 2x ML - 160 points 1857 total, so a little bit over. I don't think he'll mind though, and I'll let him pop a dozer blade on one of his 1ksons rhinos. Everything but the Devs are in some kind of transport, and I have two psychic hoods in this list to shut down Lash if he tries it. I normally don't use plasma cannons on the raven, but I thought it'd be ok for taking out some of those pain-in-the-power-armour Oblits. What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903140 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 The list is going to mess you up if you're not careful. I would think razorspam should beat it hands down. DoA can sweep this CSM list but will require skill on the part of the BA player. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I would say drop Meph for a normal Librarian in Power Armour and get some more stuff for the other guys. Put the TL Lascannon on the Storm Raven it can ID a Obil where a Plasma Cannon can't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Memories Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 For the love of anything you want to love do NOT drop mephiston. Chaos has absolutely no answer what so ever for mephiston. Drop the stormraven (nothing is in it anyways), pick up some more guns or razorbacks (i'd suggest predators to soak long ranged firepower and punch out those oblits) and run mephiston behind the rhinos and raider and use the marines, the raider+terms and mephiston as an overwhelming force and just eat his list alive. If you use mobile cover for mephiston chaos has absolutely NO answer for mephiston besides super-expensive Abaddon. The closest thing is a warp-time prince but even that is a toss up if it has taken any wounds previously. This list has none of those. It doesn't even have a good counter-charge unit. If you hit in multiple locations at once against this list, it doesn't really matter if he has the guns to kill mephiston because he won't have guns for everyone else cramming down his throat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903502 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 For the love of anything you want to love do NOT drop mephiston. Chaos has absolutely no answer what so ever for mephiston. Those Obliterators would argue otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I agree, if given the opportunity to rapid-fire some Plasmaguns (assuming they can fire Plasmaguns, I'm not 100% familiar with the Chaos Codex), a unit of Obliterators would make a right mess of Mephiston. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903869 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I agree, if given the opportunity to rapid-fire some Plasmaguns (assuming they can fire Plasmaguns, I'm not 100% familiar with the Chaos Codex), a unit of Obliterators would make a right mess of Mephiston. DV8 They can. Twin linked plasmaguns in fact (when I bring out my TSons I have a few oblits backup) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903871 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlantic Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 If you can get Meph into charge range though, the Oblits are toast. I think Mech is your friend as well. Put up a wall of tanks and move them up with Meph hiding behind. Even if Meph charges into cover he will probably win big. He has potentially a 24 inch charge range. 18 of them are pretty much a gimme. It should be pretty simple to keep him engaged so that he won't be shot up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbusePuppy Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Thanks for all the advice, everyone! Here's the list I plan to field against him. I've tried to incorporate transports and tanks, and I think it turned out pretty well, although I have a disappointing number of Troops. HQ Meph - 250 points Libby w/ Termy armour, storm shield, Shield, Rage - 145 points EL 2x Priests - 100 points 6x Assault termies w/ 2x TH/SS, LRC w/ multi-melta - 510 points TP 9x Assault marines w/ fist, melta, rhino - 212 points 10x Assault marines w/ fist, 2x melta, rhino - 240 points HS Storm raven w/ hurricane bolters, TL plasma cannon - 230 points 5x Dev marines w/ 2x las, 2x ML - 160 points 1857 total, so a little bit over. I don't think he'll mind though, and I'll let him pop a dozer blade on one of his 1ksons rhinos. Everything but the Devs are in some kind of transport, and I have two psychic hoods in this list to shut down Lash if he tries it. I normally don't use plasma cannons on the raven, but I thought it'd be ok for taking out some of those pain-in-the-power-armour Oblits. What do you think? Mephiston, while decent, is not going to be amazing in the list- you don't really have Dreadnoughts to screen him with nor enough other "tough" units to make truly scary. Yeah, he's a beast in combat, but His Daemon Princes and Obliterators can both potentially do some real damage to him. I wouldn't run Mephy below 2000pts, in most cases, although keeping him won't cripple you. Investing in two pricey HQs, though, is bad. Drop one or the other. Put some Extra Armor on that Land Raider, if you don't have it already. Likewise for the Stormraven. Unlike cheaper transports, their sole job is to drive forward and deliver something scary. Land Raider + Stormraven is something of a mismatch, but it's not going to be horrible, I just feel you'd do better with 2x of one or the other. Mixing weapons on your Devs is a bad idea. I feel Lascannons are overpriced, but they do have merit for piercing the Oblits' armor saves, so you could potentially use them. However, 4x of one or the other is best. If you had two or more squads I'd say put a Priest to babysit them, but... You don't have a Dread to transport in your Stormraven- you're effectively wasting that part of the model, which it pays no small amount of points for. I would strongly recommend a Furioso, possibly with a Magna-Grapple if you're feeling sassy- two S8 guns will make the Oblits pretty sad, and front armor 13 means their Power Fists are worthless. The 1K Sons don't care much about it, but you have other units to handle them; if you're really worried, substitute the Bolter armor for a Frag Cannon. Speaking of the Stormraven, Lascannon + Multimelta is probably your best loadout- two weapons that cause ID and ignore saves, both of them effective against the Vindicator as well. The Plasma Cannon is not bad and will be more useful against the 1K Sons; the Assault Cannon will likewise be better against them (and, if I remember my math correctly, slightly better against the Vindicator as well) but worse against the Oblits. Hurricane Bolters are very good weapons, but I find I rarely can afford the points for them. The Assault Marines are fine, but get both those squads to 10man. You're a bit weak on scoring presence, so keep that in mind- you're really committing to the "wipe him out" plan here. Priests should be going in your toughest transports, so one in the Stormraven and one in the Land Raider. What are you planning on loading into the Land Raider? I'm a little confused on this point. You need two good "rock" units to really use your two transports, but you only have one. This is what I would do for the list: 1850 Blood Angels1 Mephiston 5 Assault Terminators (2 TH/SS) -dedicated LRC (EA, MM) 2 Priest 1 Furioso (Grapple) 10 ASM (2 Melta, Fist; Rhino) 10 ASM (2 Melta, Fist; Rhino) 5 ASM (Melta; Razorback w/LasPlas) 1 Stormraven (MM, Las, EA) I think you might have a couple points left over after that. You have some deployment options- if going first, you can put Termies inside the Stormraven and go for gusto or you can sit them with the Raider and play it a little more safely; you can also split one of the ASM squads up to sit the sarge and four bodies inside the SR and the Melta team inside the Rhino, or you can leave the Stormraven empty of infantry and use it mainly as a gunboat. When going second, you can't use Combat Squads, unfortunately, so your Stormraven is mostly just a Dread delivery system, but if he is foolish and deploys within that 12" + 4" + 6" of a table edge you can come in off of, go for it. Mephiston can hide behind the Raider if he wants to, but thanks to not actually being jump infantry, he can also hop inside either it or the Stormraven as necessary. Doing so doesn't increase his charge range the way it does other models (due to him being able to fly), but if he's sitting on one wound, sometimes you have to. The Rhinos, if holding troops, should be behind the Land Raider so they get cover and are pretty much your "backup plan," as they're more than enough to trump most everything he has in CC. If you're running one of them empty (due to shoving all ten guys inside the Stormraven), it can act as mobile cover for the Land Raider instead. Generally, you're just going to drive forward as far as possible and pop smoke on the Raider first turn, with SR zooming, of course. Depending on deployment/scenario, that potentially leaves you threatening him with charges from three units (Meph, LR, SR) that he can't handle on the second turn- however, if he's smart, it's more likely that at least one of them won't be able to get to him. The lone LasPlas squad basically just hangs around on an objective and twiddles its thumbs, hoping that the rest of the list keeps the enemy busy enough that they can't direct fire to that squad. Your priorities: 1. Kill the Oblits. These guys are your real problem. They have the only good anti-tank in his list and if you're in bad formation, can put a lot of hurt on you. Depending on his deployment, you can potentially put the Stormraven back out of their Lascannon range if you're going second and volley them with the Bloodstrike Missiles- between that and your own Lascannon, you can expect to kill 1-2 from a squad straight away. Note that they have no way to kill the Land Raider except from inside 6" (TL Meltagun), so you are relatively safe on that front. Your list has many "threat" units, which will strain his ability to target separate units- he can really only shoot ~3 things each turn (2x Oblits, Vindi), so if your Termies, Dread, Mephy, and ASM are all in range, he's in serious trouble. 2. Silence the Vindicator With mediocre accuracy and no prevention of cover saves, the Vindi is not actually all that dangerous in a lot of cases- however, it can do some damage to you and good rolls can easily smoke a tank. Your Stormraven should almost always move 24" into a side arc of the tank and fire its Multimelta, which is almost certainly going to hit, penetrate (good chance of double-pen), won't have to shoot through cover (due to angle), and end the tank's life on a 2+ on the die. 3. Get rid of the Princes With the firepower of his list crippled, the Princes are not very scary at all. Mephiston can chop through them, provided he hasn't taken too much damage on the way in, or your Terminators can do a job on them as well, especially when charging. If your ASM have Priest backup, they can do passably as well by virtue of just forcing saves. Don't underestimate them- they strike before most everything in your list, can kill the Dreadnought in CC and have a decent invuln- but neither should you be particularly worried about them. 4. Keep the 1K Sons out of action. Or, more accurately, keep their Sorcerers out of action. Your LasPlas and ASM can handle this nicely, shooting to shake/stun the tanks- if they disembark something, all the better. Mephy should avoid combat with these units due to their invunls (and his lack of one), as should the Dreadnoughts, but your ASM can handle them beautifully. Failing that, just harass them a bit with the LRC and make sure that the objective they sit on is contested- they're only a real threat to infantry models at point-blank range. 5. Kill the Dreads or something I guess. These guys are kind of a joke- while they can do some damage in CC, Mephiston is S10, your various Fists are S9 (on the charge), and you have Melta and Las aplenty to handle them if they get uppity. Consider them a target of opportunity, and whenever possible maneuver to make his own units in between the Dread and you so that the chances of them going crazy is maximized. If you were looking for other options, you could drop Mephy for the Terminator Librarian (equipped as you had him above) and drop the LasPlas squad for a group of Death Company + Lemartes or five more Assault Terminators. The DC + Lemmy unit, though expensive, is a beast in combat, although you are really stretching the points level you can take it at. A second Stormraven or Land Raider would benefit you more than the split of the two of them, or you could drop the "hammer" theme and just field more Assault Marines in transports (Flamerbacks or Rhinos) and go for gusto. This would be my "idealized" list: 1850 Blood Angels1 Librarian (Unleash, Shield) 1 Priest 5 Assault Terminators (2 TH/SS) 1 Furioso (Grapple) 5 ASM (Melta; Razorback w/LasPlas) 5 ASM (Melta; Razorback w/LasPlas) 5 ASM (Melta; Razorback w/LasPlas) 7 Death Co (1 PF; add Lemartes) 1 DC Dread (Talons) 1 Stormraven (MM, Las, EA) 1 Stormraven (MM, Las, EA) Similar to your list, but it puts full pressure immediate with two fully-loaded Stormravens. It also has better standoff capability using the LasPlas, although it is certainly more lacking in close; you'll largely be reliant on the Death Co to handle his 1K Sons. Termies + Libby + Priest ride in one SR, Death Co in the other; generally, you'll want the DC Dread with the Terminators and the Furioso with the Death Co, so you have maximum flexibility in handling threats. LasPlas can move 6" or 12" to get shots, as needed, and in a pinch the ASM can go after something weak to bring it down. (You could sub the Meltagun for a Power Sword to enhance this, although it would mean finding a few more points, probably by dropping the Grapple.) I wouldn't worry about buying a second Stormraven just to make the above list, there are lots of others that could work as well or better. A shooty LasPlas list with AutoLas Predators, for example, or many others. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Hmmm, i hate chaos marines to but honestly after reading his list i dont see what the problem is :lol: one big problem i can potentialy see is that your termies+LR is a huge part of your list. Have you ever played without termies? sure theyre nice against big gribblies but also a huge target magnet. you can get 2.5 squads for the same amount of points :) other then that use transports to hide mephi (among other things) and get in asap and kick his teeth out. on his own he should be able to kill about half of his army since hes so heavy on the elite infantry and hq :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2903979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
khurdur Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 nice post, I play both some BA and mainly chaos... Mephy can be taken by chaos, if he gets in cc only Abby or a warptime Nurgle or tzeentch prince will hold him, but otherwise, a double lash will probably pull him into the open, even with a hood, and oblits will plasma him to death, each guy has a TL plasmagun, and he's got 6 oblits, do the math.... Sanguinor is actually harder for chaos to drop, as they tend to avoid powerfists in units, lack any kind of torrents of fire if they take Plague marines, khorn berzerkers, or even Tsons as all these lack a lot of shots. To drop Sangy, you gotta hit him with enough shots for him to roll 3 ones on his artificeir armour, so you either need a few hvy bolts, autocannons, or 30+ bolter shots. Trying to pass his 3++ with plasma is unreliable unless you have tons of it. Chaos doesn't have that. In cc, he can beat down any prince, or even abby, and his aura compounds your close combat advantage. Just shoot the oblits and rhinos first, take 3 squads of devs w/ 4 ML. And use razorbacks to lascannon the oblits. the rest of the game should be a cakewalk. Avoid deepstriking with jumpers unless you have A LOT, cause between the 6 oblits, Ksons, dreads with plasmacannnons (!!!!!! never seen them used, they are unreliable!!!!!!!!) vindie and lash princes with waste them. Generally chaos is problematic for DoA armies, try to outshoot them instead, chaos sucks at medium-longrange aside from any oblits they will have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2905123 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 If you can get Meph into charge range though, the Oblits are toast. They've got the range on him still. As long as they dont deploy too close, they should have at least a turn of shooting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2905962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Why bother sending a pricey model that is built for hand to hand combat against Oblits? Why not use fast moving/deepstriking meltas instead? Butter-daemons, meet futuristic fusion emitter/cooking utensil! Easier, cheaper, win-win? :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2905995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Why bother sending a pricey model that is built for hand to hand combat against Oblits? Why not use fast moving/deepstriking meltas instead? Butter-daemons, meet futuristic fusion emitter/cooking utensil! Easier, cheaper, win-win? :) They cant reliably take out all of them- especially not if they're in cover. With mephy, who can boost to strength 10 and insta-pop the blits, they only have their 5+, and they only need to fail 3 saves. Hes great for killing blits. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240460-i-must-beat-this-list/#findComment-2906234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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