recon0321 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 so i was reading the codex and noticed that it mentioned that the Grey knights have different brotherhood not so dissimilar to space marine battle companies... my question is do the brotherhoods have different colors and/or how would they differ from each other in appearance?? any ideas?? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Technically, every Knight has his own heraldry; his own coat-of-arms. Old circles of knights had nothing that tied them together other than familiarity and camaraderie...no visual markings of any kind, really. Each knight was his own big deal. I suspect the same design was in mind for the Grey Knights. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2902797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 As thade said. Grey Knights are meant to be just that- Knights. They each have their own heraldry. Even vehicles display the heraldry of the pilot. The only "Brotherhood" that has a uniform appearance are the Purifiers with their white helmets. But, IIRC, they're described as their own Order within the Grey Knights rather than an additional Brotherhood to the other 8. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2902809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 As thade said. Grey Knights are meant to be just that- Knights. They each have their own heraldry. Even vehicles display the heraldry of the pilot. The only "Brotherhood" that has a uniform appearance are the Purifiers with their white helmets. But, IIRC, they're described as their own Order within the Grey Knights rather than an additional Brotherhood to the other 8. Exactly right. The Purifiers are certainly odd (probably not too well thought ought) as they are a separate "Order" within the Chapter, that is otherwise now comprised of Brotherhoods - that would be more-or-less equivalant to the the Companies of other Chapters. The Order of Purifiers is led by Castellan Garren Crowe, who is, himself, a Brotherhood Champion. This means that he's got a Brother-Captain of one of the Brotherhoods that he has been assigned to protect. At the same time, those Purifiers are probably supposed to belong to the various Brotherhoods, but instead they fight together, and sometimes en masse under Crowe's leadership. It is all rather convoluted to me. I don't mind the new Brotherhood concept, makes sense, and like that Brotherhood Champions exist to bodyguard the Brother-Captains. I'm not a fan of the Purifiers concept, however, and would have much preferred the more traditional explanation of simply having a few units of Veteran Grey Knights within each Brotherhood who fight together as squads. Valerian Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2902998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The purist of our pure must stay purely pure by purifying they own purist of the purist pure thrown purifying flame (Purifiers), while our armor is so armored that even our most armored armor wears armor (NDK). Got to love this crappy fluff, or you won't be able to stop crying. SJ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2903510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archon_77 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I disagree that it is "crappy" its certainly different true, but crappy? I don't think so. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2903520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Please, please, please stay on topic and don't digress into a "Ward-bashing" thread. We have more than enough of those. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2903810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesis_rhapsod0s Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The purist of our pure must stay purely pure by purifying they own purist of the purist pure thrown purifying flame (Purifiers), while our armor is so armored that even our most armored armor wears armor (NDK). Got to love this crappy fluff, or you won't be able to stop crying. SJ Stolen for my signature. Well done. In short OP, only the Purifiers have any kind of uniform outside "grey armor." Go hog wild man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2904114 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 The Grey Knights are like the armies of medieval Europe. Each knight has his own personal coat of arms, his own heraldry and served alongside brother nights. Such units where termed "battles" which is the origin of the word "Battalion". A brotherhood can be describe din such terms. Within this framework where the monastic orders, knights who served God and not a liegelord and where dedicated, elite forces. Examples include the Knights Templar, Knights Hospitaler and Teutonic knights. purifiers and Paladins can be seen in these terms. Each Brotherhood would be molded by the natures and style of their respective Grand Master and Brother Captain but tbis would be seen in their tactics and preferrd equipment as opposedto any colour scheme. Perhaps a Grand Master was a purgator will favour heavy weapons and go into battle with more purgation squads than another brotherhood for example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2904257 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The difference being, of course, that each Grey Knight does not hail from different manor houses/fiefs. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2904774 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The difference being, of course, that each Grey Knight does not hail from different manor houses/fiefs. :P I disagree. Each Grey Knight is chosen on an individual basis from deathworlds, warzones or even the blackships. While they form a united whole and do not have the memories of their past they are aware on an academic level that their origns are different and varied. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2904961 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The difference being, of course, that each Grey Knight does not hail from different manor houses/fiefs. ;) I disagree. Each Grey Knight is chosen on an individual basis from deathworlds, warzones or even the blackships. While they form a united whole and do not have the memories of their past they are aware on an academic level that their origns are different and varied. Their origins being different and varied means absolutely nothing to them; less than nothing. It's the whole reason they are mind-wiped. They are Grey Knights and their liege is the Emperor. That is literally all they know of their heritage and all they need. They are selected by the GK themselves and have no such awareness or even interest in where they came from. The order is modern military in that it supplies the GK marines with their equipment and whatever else they may need. Actual history knights were hand-picked by each fief's lord...or were the lords themselves (or members of his family). Being a Knight was a big deal and meant you came from money (you needed it..it's how you funded your stupid expensive armor and gear and horses, etc.) and you definitely know where you are from, your entire extended family (alive or dead), and their doubtlessly impressive exploits. Your crest has emblems of your family and your lord (if they're not one and the same) and each manor house has typically one or as many as three. Each of them will have significantly different heraldry even from the same fief, and a full unit of them would all look radically different and have disparate motivations and interests, as they all herald from different fiefs. A history knight is defined by his family and its history. A Grey Knight has no family other than the Emperor, and the only history of his that has meaning is his time with the Grey Knights. Really the only things they have in common are disparate markings and the word "Knight". Prestige and chivalry are well known characteristics historic knights...and the Grey Knights are "known" for obscurity and purging entire worlds to kill a single bad seed. Very, very different. <3 Also, when the GK purge a world, they do not return to their respective fiefs and brag about their kill counts in taverns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2905006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Their origins being different and varied means absolutely nothing to them; less than nothing. It's the whole reason they are mind-wiped. They are Grey Really the only things they have in common are disparate markings and the word "Knight". Prestige and chivalry are well known characteristics historic knights...and the Grey Knights are "known" for obscurity and purging entire worlds to kill a single bad seed. Very, very different. <3 Also, when the GK purge a world, they do not return to their respective fiefs and brag about their kill counts in taverns. Are we talking about historical knights or fictional knights? Historical knights where the first wave in ethnic cleansing and genocide throughout the middle ages. The European knights beat and murdered their way across the holy land and the Teutonic knights where the cutting edge of the genocide in the east. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2905691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Are we talking about historical knights or fictional knights? Historical knights where the first wave in ethnic cleansing and genocide throughout the middle ages. The European knights beat and murdered their way across the holy land and the Teutonic knights where the cutting edge of the genocide in the east. All in the name of their families and fiefs, neither of which the GK have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2905720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Are we talking about historical knights or fictional knights? Historical knights where the first wave in ethnic cleansing and genocide throughout the middle ages. The European knights beat and murdered their way across the holy land and the Teutonic knights where the cutting edge of the genocide in the east. All in the name of their families and fiefs, neither of which the GK have. Actualy they did it in the name of God. The Crusades where a holy cause and each Knight was pledged to the cross and it was the same in the east with the slavic crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2905893 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Also for their religion, sure, but that wasn't the question. You appear to be diverting and I'm not really clear on why. Your original assertion was that the GK were alike to knights due to an "academic" understanding of their varied backgrounds: Each Grey Knight is chosen on an individual basis from deathworlds, warzones or even the blackships. While they form a united whole and do not have the memories of their past they are aware on an academic level that their origns are different and varied. Grey Knights do not fight in the name of the small chunk of property that their lords/families possess or even their own family names: they fight because they're built to. History knight heraldry is based upon their varied backgrounds: their family's and personal exploits, their lords and kings. Grey Knight heraldry is based exclusively upon personal merit: they have no family and really only one lord, the Emperor. On the one hand you have a warrior who thinks that he and his family are a big deal. On the other hand you have a warrior who is far more idealistic: Grey Knights care not for how awesome they appear and all have the same "family" that they represent: each other. I'm not sure why you don't see the difference between "fighting anything at a king's behest to justify your lord's/family's ownership over a plot of land and some serfs" and "fighting a particular foe because you were literally bred and built to fight without questioning why", but it's there. <3 Grey Knights don't own land, nor do they have any connection to their families which may or may never have land. They don't fight for honor, gain, or glory. They fight because it's why they exist at all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2905903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Wasn't the original question answered? Do the different bro hoods have different colors/heraldry or not? Based on the first few comments my opinion is no. The rest of the discussion seems to be off topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240464-different-brotherhoods-of-the-grey-knights/#findComment-2906066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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