Blood Angel Fandex

[DrummingBerserker21]

So a few guys within my gaming group aren't the biggest fans of the BA codex and are looking to rewrite all the Codicies in 40k so that they are all at the same power level. I'd greatly appreciate any comments and critiques you might have over the current BA codex. This is still a work in progress (and subject to change) and I have some disagreements over what they've changed but was wondering what my fellow brothers in BA thought.

 

 

Blood Angels

Make sure to read this part carefully!

as per the SM codex, with the following changes

lose tactical and assault squads

Chaplains attached to a squad may negate their rage on a d6 roll of 3 or higher as long as they are attached to it. This is done the first time they join the unit (including deploying with them) and this will increase the points cost by 5 points.

May not use special characters or trait system from other codices

[Eorek]

Brother Cleutin feels abit...well... like he could ruin you day more than save it... I mean the negatie effecs that BA suffer is worse than the negative enemies suffer... and the positive things are kinda equal(depending on what race + the fact that BA can gain furious charge from alot of other places)

[LordCommanderSamirus]

The problems I have with this might wind up being almost as long as the OP itself.

 

1. When you said "Fandex" you must have been kidding. The term is usually used on a Fan Built Codex that makes the army awesome while still holding true to the fluff and background of the army in question. I realized this is not the case within the first 2 lines.

"as per the SM codex, with the following changes

lose tactical and assault squads"

Any Blood Angels fan will tell you, very proudly in fact, that the Blood Angels are a Codex Chapter, meaning they adhere (mostly anyway) to the Codex Astartes. The Blood Angels Combat Squad mentioned in the list is both odd and breaks a lot background. Heavy Weapons with a Jump Pack... no. I don't mean to be rude but that just doesn't work from any standpoint of fluff or game mechanics. I won't even go into how wrong the "MP Missile Launcher" and "MP Lascannon" are as they don't exist anywhere in the background, nor does any thing like them exist.

 

2. The Vanguard weapons swap mentioned, "may take up to 2 Hand Flamers and 1 Melta Pistol" is... well... clunky and unnecessary. Saying perhaps "for every 5 models, 2 may exchange their bolt pistols with either a hand flamer, infernus pistol, or plasma pistol" would work slightly better, though still unnecessary as most people don't bother with ranged weapon upgrades on Vanguard.

 

3. One point I actually agree with is the ability for a Captain to take a Glaive Encarmine, never will figure out why Mr. Ward didn't go this road.

 

4. The part about Red Thirst... all of it. I agree that the Red Thirst and the Black Rage are two sides of the same coin but the two cannot be represented by the same rule. They were caused by separate events, Red Thirst after Signus Prime, Black Rage after the death of Sanguinius. The effects of each are different. The Red Thirst causes lucid aggression and blood lust. The Black Rage is virtually uncontrollable anger and hatred. While outwardly similar they are no where near the same. Additionally the rules you have for this are also clunky. I agree the current version is almost too streamlined and unimaginative the version you present is just wrong, in my opinion.

 

5. We Soar on Wings of Fire... what? Once again completely unnecessary and overly complicated. There is nothing wrong with Decent of Angels, its fluffy, represents the love of free flight of all Blood Angels, and not overpowering or complicated.

 

6. The vehicles section... where to begin? First I do respect the throwback to the older incarnations of the Turbo Charged Engines. However if you wanted to be nostalgic you should only have it be Rhinos and Baal Predators. Second why would the Flamestorm Cannon cost a Predator 10pts more than the TL Assault Cannons? They are very comparable and should be the same points. Third, Dreadnoughts, once again nice throwback with the D3 additional attacks for the DC dreads, while this would be fun and nostalgic it shouldn't be allowed to work with Blood Talons as this would make changing the Blood Talons to not generating additional attacks after the first extra ones be completely pointless. Then allowing Ironclads to take one Blood Talon... why? Unless you change the way the ability works in the first place it would also be completely pointless as they only work if you have 2.

 

7. Heavy Support restrictions. 0-1 Landraider, whats the reasoning here? Blood Angels are known to be artificers and have well maintained equipment from the Great Crusade. Why would a First Founding Legion only be capable of deploying 1 while some XXth founding chapter of the Ultramarines can field up to 4? 0-1 Stormraven... this one I'm actually conflicted on. While I do own 2 Stormravens I've always seen them as GW just trying to make more money, which I can totally respect and obviously bought into. They are "new" in the armory and should be somewhat uncommon but at the same time why would you give a front line chapter only a few of the new toys? 0-1 Dreadnought, again same argument as the Landraider. 0-1 Devastator, again why would a Codex chapter only be capable of fielding 1?

 

8. Death Company. My issues here are small. First though, points value. 5th Edition codices for the most part have made use of nice even numbers that are easy to add up on the fly even for people who aren't particularly good at math. A lot of the point values you gave in the DC entry are weird numbers and have a very backwards feel to them. Second, I again agree with most of the weapon options though. There probably should be a limit on how many Power Weapons or Power Fists a DC unit can take. Add Infernus Pistol to the weapon options and I think that wouldn't be too bad. Third my only major issue is your version of Black Rage which I already discussed earlier.

 

9. Sanguinary Guard. Your version looks almost cut and paste from the current codex, with a few minor differences. First, I'll ask again, whats wrong with the current Decent of Angels? Second I agree completely with the weapon options again. Thunder Hammers and Hand Flamers would compliment the SG quite well.

 

10. Sanguinary Priest. Why try to fix something that isn't broken? You made them cheaper, took away Lightning Claws as an option (may be an omission I'm sure) and reduced their effectiveness. They work fine as they are now, matter of fact for how easy they are to kill they might be too expensive now anyway.

 

11. Stormraven. Again only minor changes from existing codex entry. Why change the missiles? Changing the name of the missiles would be understandable but whats wrong with the stats? Besides again you dropped the cost of the base vehicle anyway. You should probably be able to swap the missiles for something similar to the Hellfury missiles but why change the cost to do so. The weapon options pricing makes little sense again. All of the turret and hull options are comparable in overall effectiveness to their counterparts as is, with the exception of the Typhoon upgrade. I don't see a TL lascannon being more devastating than a TL Assault Cannon, if anything the Assault Cannons are more potentially dangerous. The bit about a transported Dreadnought taking damage makes sense though.

 

12. Psychic Powers. All fine except for your interpretation of Wings. That would be a bit much. You tried to balance it by putting that measure of fate into it but its still Over the top.

 

13. Dante. ugh... I like that you put in the Perdition Pistol and the Rites of Battle. I don't however like anything else. The reduced statline, the reduced Deepstrike effectiveness, the overpowered Mask, the old school but now over powered preferred enemy halo.

 

14. Astoroth and Lemartes. You changed little of both but what you changed has little purpose. Astoroth doesn't lift the 0-1 restriction on DC. Lemartes just gets 4 attacks after being wounded instead of 5 but costs 5pts less. Why make these changes?

 

15. Mephiston. really ugh... why? He's a very well balanced character now as it is.

 

16. Corbulo. 10 extra pts makes him an HQ choice with an additional wound but a point lower in initiative and gives him the ability to potentially control DC. On that note I realize I forgot to mention the Chaplains bit at the beginning of your post. I agree there should be a way to control DC.

 

17. Tycho. You didn't change the points cost but made him S5...

 

18. Moriar. I like the addition, again very nostalgic. I think that seeing as how he was a Captain his WS should be 6. For a few extra points throw in the old school "Tear attack" that the old Furiosos had. Truth be told I like this one.

 

19. Brother Cleutin. What were you and your friends smoking when you made that one? I know the character and fluff but :P? I agree with Eorek what would impulse any remotely intelligent or sane individual to include him in an army? The model and character is a great idea that you really get props for "rule of cool". The weapon is fun and not over the top... but the Shroud. That needs work.

 

In closing I hope you don't think I was too harsh or rude as that was not the intention. I am generally really happy with the codex as it is. I am a very loyal Blood Angels fan and player, have been for more than a decade now. I especially take the fluff of the chapter very seriously and their organization is well established and therefore shouldn't be tampered with. The current codex has its issues, most of which you addressed and I agree with some of those solutions but a whole rewrite based of the Vanilla SM codex is completely, in my opinion, unnecessary. I asked early "Why try to fix what isn't broken?" I'll ask again. The BA codex is on the whole balanced, its only when people abuse the spirit of the game and exploit areas where the developers didn't see that it becomes a monster.

 

-Samirus

[Blitzkrieg861]

I'm not personally a fan of rewriting the codex. Sure, it has some opportunities for improvement in some areas but doesn't need this IMO. I think the people you game with probably build poor lists if they are insisting upon this. What armies do they play and what do their lists look like? I think that's a far more interesting subject of conversation.

[Morollan]

So a few guys within my gaming group aren't the biggest fans of the BA codex and are looking to rewrite all the Codicies in 40k so that they are all at the same power level.

 

I'm assuming from this that your friends think the BA are overpowered in some way? Why is that? And what on earth do they make of Grey Knights and Space Wolves?

 

There's not very much of your 'fandex' that I like or can see any real reason for I'm afraid.

[SnorriSnorrison]

I agree with LordCommanderSamirus.

This "fandex", as you call it, is just as appropriate to represent the Blood Angels on the Battlefield as Codex:Black Templars.

 

You basically took all that works right now, made it more complicated and changed a few prices here and there and called it a fandex. The special rules you presented are not really helping in game mechanics, and the fluff parts really lack depth or even precedent(I'm with Samirus again).

 

The fact that you put a limitation on Landraiders, Stormravens and Devastators shows that you lack some serious knowledge of the Chapter's organisation, its heritage(being artificers and all) and our preferred combat style(Devastators support the main army are are as common as assault squads).

 

From a gaming perspective, I've found our codex satisfying. The few oversights are annoying, but they don't have that much impact on the game.

 

 

Oh, and if your friends in your gaming group say that C:BA is overpowered, then they should start playing the game and stop whining. I mean, every list can be beaten. It's all down to the gamer. Just saying.

 

 

Snorri

[DrummingBerserker21]

First of all, thank you all very much for the prompt responses. The reason that I brought up this "fan-dex" is because two of my friends (one of whom plays Space Wolves, the other of whom plays Tyranids, Ultramarines, and Imperial Guard) sprang the fact that they wanted to try and balance all of the codecies to each other. My friends did some of the limitations such as the Stormraven, Dreadnought, and Devastators because I was unhappy with a previous rendition that was set up almost solely as a mechanized list. In attempting to accomodate my desires to have a multitude of list desires they thought it best to strip the codex of some options while making a JP and other lists more viable. Some of the suggestions like Brother Cleutin and Moriar were started and changed from my original design, but the vast majority of the changes were without my active participation. Instead I would give advice as to what I would like and they would try to make it "balanced" while accomodating my wishes.

 

Our gaming group typically plays more fun than competitive lists, and as such I wasn't taking undue use of any tournament style lists with the BA and had even been beaten several times because of a long absence from playing among other reasons. Because of my average win-lost ratio, I was quite angry when they sprang a codex that they devised between the two of them and then expected me to play with it, and having been trying to work with them to revise it ever since. Some of the suggestions like Brother Cleutin and Moriar were started under my instigation, but the vast majority of the changes without my active participation.

 

Like many of the above mentioned posters I have no problems with the current codex outside of the lack of control for DC, and enjoy the current rendition quite heartily. I was coming to you here as a fellow fan of all things Blood Angel's so that I might get an outside and (somewhat) unbiased opinion in regards to the changes they attempted. I'm hoping to keep Moriar and Brother Cleutin and would appreciate any other advice that you might have on those two in particular.

[Brother Chris]

I can't quite see the point of this. Why not make up a Codex about a different chapter, rather than completely re-writing the BA one. And if you do for some reason want to re-write it, work with the established fluff and try and get the rules to reflect it better.

 

For what its worth, I would make Black rage units move normally but then be overcome with blood lust and assault the nearest unit within assault range, rather than come up with different units who may or may not be able to control them.

[Brother Nathan]

also i dont think your allowed to post as much stats as you have... and to be fair you have some good ideas but alot of it just feels like wasted effort, trying to make the codex we have overlap with the vanilla onewhich you can do well enough with the one we have wel enough. i would just try to stick with our dex its alot more balanced than non ba players feel. they see the strengths ad discard the weaknesses. if you find something being to hard for an opponent to stop try something different, or get them to. the dexes you mentioned are to me fairly balanced(ok maby not nids, still think their previous dex was better.

 

failing that, things like moriar and cluetin would be cool. maby trying to make the characters and play test them beside the rest of the ba dex might be better than just rewriting the whole thing... and maby even comming up with your own characters with special stuff would be more fun too. im all for diversity but rewriting a whole codex from scratch is more difficult than it sounds...(takes away alot of fun to me too...)

 

hope that helps somehow...

[JamesI]

I've basically removed the fandex.

 

It had way too much GW IP posted, including stats and costs for many units straight from our codex as well as rules far beyond what is allowed.

 

It can be returned, if the original poster edits it significantly. First, don't list the rules for stuff like Hand Flamers. Just say see Codex Blood Angels for the rules. If something is changed, list the new rules.

 

Second. Don't list stats for units that are straight out of Codex BA. Just say see Codex BA Tact squad or assault squad or Sang Guard squad. Units like Tycho were unchanged straight copies of Codex BA.

 

Third. Don't list costs. We all know how much a meltagun costs in an assault squad. So unless you are changing the costs, just say see Codex BA.

[LordCommanderSamirus]

@ DrummingBerserker:

If your friends say you have to play the codex that they made, tell them to shove it. You have no reason to play it other than angering them. If they get angry because you don't want to play a Unofficial Codex either explain to them how little sense it makes or find other people to game with. As far as homegrown characters and such I'm all for it. I've even made rules for a BA character named in honor of Brother Edward that you can find in the Apocalypse section. If you'd like to make rules for Moriar and Cleutin I'd be very interested in helping, as well as any other characters you might want to field that don't already exist. Leonatos for example would also be a fun one.

 

-Samirus

[Blitzkrieg861]

The problem with fan dexes is this character right here....

 

Eyewyn Lauls - 100pts

Stats: 10 across the board

Saves: 2+/3++

 

Seems reasonable to me! If you're doing just one character it's not normally a problem but making these fan dexes work requires that every player review every line from every player's new codex to make sure it isn't ridiculous. Honestly if people weren't checking I'd make Mephy an elite choice, drop him to 50pts and make it a 1-5 unit size. Why not?

 

Your friends just need to build better lists, play better and perhaps even choose an army that better suits their play style. BA is a very reasonable dex, even this new edition. We have some weaknesses but really this lies with your friends. Congrats, you're better than all of them though!

[AustonT]

Really? The real codex is new, in 40k terms the ink is barely dry and you made a fandex. My only question and common is why?

[Crimson Devil]

...Our gaming group typically plays more fun than competitive lists....

 

Obviously this is not true. It looks like they got competive and didn't tell you. You have two players with powerful builds (SW and IG) complaining about the BA. A codex on par with the IG and only inferior to SW due to the lesser number of competive builds available. They should stop being butthurt and play better, or better yet don't play them anymore.

[DrummingBerserker21]

@AustonT

 

The decision to make a fandex wasn't my own, instead my friends had decided that everyone should have codecies of equal level since the BA were apparently too powerful. I was then presented their version and told that they expected me to play with it in an upcoming campaign we were starting. I personally thought their version was still silly, and wanted to see if I was being unreasonable, hence why I posted their version. I am more than content with our current codex.

 

@Samirus and Crimson Devil

 

The problem with telling them to stuff it is that they are the only people at my university and surrounding area that I know of that play 40k. If I were to tell them to stuff it I wouldn't get to play at all. So far they've been alright, because of schoolwork and other factors I had to bow out of the campaign, and have managed to get a couple of games in with the regular BA codex.

 

Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments and criticisms, they were very much appreciated.

[Leonaides]

how about you offer to play with their BA fandex, and they play with your IG and SW fandex's? We can help you with those...

[Crimson Devil]

@Samirus and Crimson Devil

 

The problem with telling them to stuff it is that they are the only people at my university and surrounding area that I know of that play 40k. If I were to tell them to stuff it I wouldn't get to play at all. So far they've been alright, because of schoolwork and other factors I had to bow out of the campaign, and have managed to get a couple of games in with the regular BA codex.

 

Just wanted to thank everyone for their comments and criticisms, they were very much appreciated.

 

Fair enough. Just remember "no gaming" is better than "bad gaming".

 

Leonaides' idea has merit. Or just use the SW or SM codex for a few games and beat face.

[AbusePuppy]

@AustonT

 

The decision to make a fandex wasn't my own, instead my friends had decided that everyone should have codecies of equal level since the BA were apparently too powerful. I was then presented their version and told that they expected me to play with it in an upcoming campaign we were starting. I personally thought their version was still silly, and wanted to see if I was being unreasonable, hence why I posted their version. I am more than content with our current codex.

 

This feels rather unfair of them, especially since IG and SW are both regarded as fairly strong books in the general scheme of things. If they think your list is too powerful it's certainly something you could discuss with them, but you have no particular obligation to use their made-up rules if you don't want to.

[Brother Nathan]

if your at uni then theres bound to be a club somewhere near. google your town/city and look to see if there is. i know a fairfew that play in our town, and we have our own independant shop for gaming in. failing that look into startting a club, create a facebook group, put up posters and look for a venue. last i thought about this it was £5 to rent a room above the town libary for 4/5 hours for gaming. effort yes but worth having a good gaming group.