Demoulius Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Did anyone else open this thread hoping to see a fight to the death? :D I'm guessing there's not much point forking out the cash for the Sanguinator then? He doesn't really strike me as being much use. But then I run a hybrid force... i did, actually :P *ding ding* and in this corner we have our very own, beatifull master of psychers and completly not insane, MEPHISTON!! *croud cheers* and in this corner we have...er....a golden angel who arrives in our times of needs who decimates our opponents to allow us to achieve victory otherwise to far out of reach....the SANGUINOR! *croud cheers* ok i want a clean fight, no groin punches, no pulling hair (im looking at you sanguinor) and no power/force weapons *glares at the partipants until they put down their weapons* ok is everybody ready? LETS GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!! :P @Spacefrisian why isent sanguinor immume to skulltaker?? IW pretty much means NO INSTANT DEATH of any kinds....or does his rule say "remove from play" ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2922274 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deus_Sanguinius Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 @Spacefrisian why isent sanguinor immume to skulltaker?? IW pretty much means NO INSTANT DEATH of any kinds....or does his rule say "remove from play" ? I guess he meant Mephiston, not the Sanguinor. But I don't know the Skulltaker so I can't judge Mephistons survivability when facing him. Back to topic: Mephiston and the Sanguinor fulfill different roles and require different playstyles. Both can be very usefull in different ways. So take it as it is. Mephiston can kill the Sanguinor with ease as the Sanguinor can kill Mephy easily. Depends on who has got the charge, psi-powers, special rules etc. They are both bad asses if played right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2922295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Huh, the Sanguinor doesn't have bolt pistol. I wonder where I got that Idea in the first place. <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2922584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 From my hazzey memory... Skull taker has a 2+ save vs psycic weapons. And he rends on a 4+ oh yeah and rending wounds also take your head off! So insta death to mephy. He's pretty much the perfect mephy assassin. Even without a blood crusher or chariot he still kicks mephy in the gonads! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2923306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 On foot Skulltaker would probably die as he only has 2 wounds and lower I than Mephiston. On a juggernaut or chariot he would stand a better chance but would still take a fair bit of damage before striking back and (probably) killing Meph. Can't be bothered to mathhammer it out more precisely than that though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2923490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I don't know about you but I wouldn't be risking a 250 point mephiston against a 2 wound model with a 2+ save that could kill him instantly on a 4+ I think if you did math hammer it you would find the odds stacked against you even with striking first. You would be fairly lucky to cause even one wound. With how much more expensive meph is there are far more appropriate targets in a demon army for meph Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2924227 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I don't know about you but I wouldn't be risking a 250 point mephiston against a 2 wound model with a 2+ save that could kill him instantly on a 4+ I think if you did math hammer it you would find the odds stacked against you even with striking first. You would be fairly lucky to cause even one wound. With how much more expensive meph is there are far more appropriate targets in a demon army for meph Maybe I'm missing something but Skulltaker only has a 5++. Not sure if he's got any armour but that's irrelevant vs a force weapon anyway and the 2+ save vs psychic attacks doesn't work against anything other than the instant death ability of Meph's force weapon (which he wouldn't use because daemons have eternal warrior). I very quickly did the mathhammer yesterday and I think that Meph does about 2.5 wounds on average vs about 0.5 for Skulltaker. That figure would increase if Skulltaker got the charge but against a fleet model with wings that's fairly unlikely. B) Not saying that I'd necessarily want to throw Meph into the mix with Skulltaker but it's not necessarily a disaster if I do. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2924325 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inaspin Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I am gonna get shot down for asking, cos it's extra cheese, but I am thinking of fielding Mephiston, just reading his sats and wargear... Does he get 7 attacks on the charge: 5 basic, 1 charging and 2x ccw? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2924336 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I am gonna get shot down for asking, cos it's extra cheese, but I am thinking of fielding Mephiston, just reading his sats and wargear... Does he get 7 attacks on the charge: 5 basic, 1 charging and 2x ccw? 6 attacks. 4 basic, 1 for charge and 1 for 2xccw. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2924337 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inaspin Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Thanks, my starting point was a tad high. While I am here, B) , is the Furioso with blood talons hitting at stength 6 on the charge, and is the only way to get him higher with 'furious charge'? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2924340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Yes and yes. B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2924343 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I don't know about you but I wouldn't be risking a 250 point mephiston against a 2 wound model with a 2+ save that could kill him instantly on a 4+ I think if you did math hammer it you would find the odds stacked against you even with striking first. You would be fairly lucky to cause even one wound. With how much more expensive meph is there are far more appropriate targets in a demon army for meph Maybe I'm missing something but Skulltaker only has a 5++. Not sure if he's got any armour but that's irrelevant vs a force weapon anyway and the 2+ save vs psychic attacks doesn't work against anything other than the instant death ability of Meph's force weapon (which he wouldn't use because daemons have eternal warrior). I very quickly did the mathhammer yesterday and I think that Meph does about 2.5 wounds on average vs about 0.5 for Skulltaker. That figure would increase if Skulltaker got the charge but against a fleet model with wings that's fairly unlikely. :huh: Not saying that I'd necessarily want to throw Meph into the mix with Skulltaker but it's not necessarily a disaster if I do. I don't think his save works against psycic powers, only psycic weapons. I havnt got the codex in front of me so I can't check right now. But being that all demons are eternal warrior it would be pretty pointless giving them a 2+ save vs insta death force weapon attacks since they would be immune to that anyway! I have a very regular demon opponent so I think we have this rule right, but I might be wrong. If so I've been tricked to many times! Sorry if this is a little off topic! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2924855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 My bad. I read the daemon codex last night and you're right. It's a 2++ vs wounds caused by psychic attacks or force weapons. Advantage Skulltaker! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2924997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 My bad. I read the daemon codex last night and you're right. It's a 2++ vs wounds caused by psychic attacks or force weapons. Advantage Skulltaker! sorry for the off topicness but.... doesent that make him one of the most insanely powerfull characters against grey knights? which is...you know ironic as theyre supposed to be hunting him :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2925376 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jorre Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Never though about it before but yes he would be a great choice vs grey knights. However considering how many army specific advantages grey knights have over demons it's hardly unfair ;p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2925589 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Bizarrely, a Grey Knight (or Mephiston) would be better off punching Skulltaker in the face than whacking him with a bloody great sword. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2925675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Bizarrely, a Grey Knight (or Mephiston) would be better off punching Skulltaker in the face than whacking him with a bloody great sword. Too bad that's not legal, huh? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2925731 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Bizarrely, a Grey Knight (or Mephiston) would be better off punching Skulltaker in the face than whacking him with a bloody great sword. Too bad that's not legal, huh? Indeed. Closest comparison would be a GK with the Brotherhood Banner I suppose. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2925735 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorek Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Vindicare assassin : Remove Inv save from wargear(blessing of the blood god), massed stormbolter fire or that daemonic gifts removing power is the best way to deal with that as greyknights I guess Also can't mephiston choose to attack with his plasma pistol as a close combat weapon? (not sure about this since I've never had to use it... I just stay away from blessing of the blood god deamons with mephiston seeing as he's usually faster than them) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2925789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Also can't mephiston choose to attack with his plasma pistol as a close combat weapon? (not sure about this since I've never had to use it... I just stay away from blessing of the blood god deamons with mephiston seeing as he's usually faster than them) No. Rules say that if you have a special CCW you must use it (exception for models with 2 special ccws can pick which to use). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2925812 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunnaeph34rn473 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Skulltaker is indeed nasty in CC. A friend of mine runs him as the HQ for his daemon army, I find that vanilla attack bikes with straight heavy bolters work wonders against skulltaker and daemons in general. Most of them don't have a great save, usually 4++ or 5++ and they're not fast enough nor do they have the weight of shooting necessary to bring down a couple full squads of attack bikes before it's too late. Although I guess that is slightly off topic considering this thread is about Mephiston and the Sanguinor. The Sanguinor would tear the Skulltaker a new one, it's pretty much a suicide mission to send Mephiston against him however. That being said, I'm a much bigger fan of Mephiston for his playability and usefulness in a wider range of lists than I am the Sanguinor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2925858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamwulf Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I've seen Skulltaker on the battlefield... once. And I have 3 Daemon Players in my area. Mephiston is a walking Juggernaut of Destruction able to pretty much kill anything on the table. The amount of resources your opponent will devote to eliminate him far exceeds his cost. He can't be ignored- or he will roll up a flank and kill everything. One of the best things your opponent can do is feed him a large unit, preferably one that won't/can't break in combat, and tie him up for a couple rounds, and continue feeding him squads until the end of the game. His effectiveness can be diminished if your opponent has a Psychic Hood. The Sanguinor- I've used him in my last couple games to try and figure him out. He's good, but you can't use him in the same way you can Mephiston. He requires support and a plan. Where I can throw Mephiston on the table and just run him anywhere, the Sanguinor requires some forethought. It's nice that he has the bubble that gives the extra attack, and the buff to a random sergeant. However, the toughness 4 and 3 wounds means he can be swamped by mass shooting or mass wounds in close combat. The 2+/3++ is awesome, but enough wounds... I can fit Mephiston into just about any army list. The Sanguinor requires a list be planned around him. The All Jump Pack DOA list with the Sanguinor, Honor Guard, Assault Squads, and Dante or Astrorath is entertaining. :o Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240578-mephiston-vs-the-sanguinor/page/3/#findComment-2926630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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