Drop Pods

[Small Far Away]

This one's simple, how do you use a Drop Pod army with codex marines? It fits in with my DIY chapter (see here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...owtopic=240088), and I like the idea.

 

Ok, thoughts people.

[Yotakka]

Well thats a really open ended question. but the short answer is one of 2 ways. 1st is to deliver a serious threat immediatly into th eheart of your enemys force without them taking any damage first. 2nd is to keep a tac squad(or other scoring unit) in reserve and drop them on an objective late in game and control/contest and objective that your non podded force didnt need to/couldnt space the troops to reach.

 

I pesonaly use em to deliver 2 dreads and a tac squad on turn one to allow my long range units a few turns of shooting before they become high priority targets again. I play rg so i pack to more tac squads(fl/combifl) in drop pods so i can flame disloged units or capture objectives w/ a full 10 man, un wounded tac squad late game.

[KhorneHunter57x]

Are you talking about a hybrid army, or a pure Drop-Pod army? I think that if we have this bit of information, then it will help us help you.

 

With a pure Pod army, the simplest route is to use Vulkan He'stan (and a large number of Melta and Flame weapons) because he has pretty good synergy with Drop Pods. His rules offset the sporadic deployment of Drop Pods (you won't all come in at the same time, thereby reducing your saturation of firepower), and the Drop Pods compensate for the short range of his preferred weapons. However, you may not want to do this if you are opposed to using Vulkan or if a lot of Flamers and Meltas are unfluffy for your chapter.

[Small Far Away]

I am thinking a pure pod army, and flamers and meltas are fluffy as they are close ranged.

 

I'll have to think up a viable reason for running Vulkan though.

[Jehoel]

Just think up a name for him and use his rules. "Counts as" is your friend.

[Muctar]

I am thinking a pure pod army, and flamers and meltas are fluffy as they are close ranged.

 

I'll have to think up a viable reason for running Vulkan though.

A character with Relic Blade and Storm Shield cover two of the most important parts of the He'stan, and are easy enough to come by. Your challenge will be finding a way to incorporate a heavy flamer into the mix. Perhaps something intergrated into the RB is a way to get it done?

 

As for going pure-pod, IC dreads and Sternguard are great choices, alongside tacticals (who usually come in from late-game reserves). Consider using Thunderfire Cannons and Devastators for your HS slots as you can buy pods for them to increase your pod count. Drop TFC pods empty, and devs with 10 marines and 4 TL MM coming in first turn alongside other more pressing targets can be a gamble, but can also pay off big from turn two onwards.

[ak-73]

This one's simple, how do you use a Drop Pod army with codex marines? It fits in with my DIY chapter (see here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...owtopic=240088), and I like the idea.

 

Ok, thoughts people.

 

If you care about winning a lot, you use it by putting it on the shelf and have it look pretty until 6E. Drop pod armies are okay until the enemy learns to go full reserve.

 

Alex

[Yotakka]

If you care about winning a lot, you use it by putting it on the shelf and have it look pretty until 6E. Drop pod armies are okay until the enemy learns to go full reserve.

 

i dont know about that as always true... It is true that MOST competative players see an all drop pod army as unreliable/ not competative because of the lack of control of when tings come on.

 

that being said you can actualy force your oppenent into a worse situation in some cases by making them reserve everything. this would allow you to place your units on objectives or in good cover and give you and advantage when your opponent rolls on and cant move and shoot heavy weapons. its just about playing smart at that point. just becareful in DOW deployement with 1st turn whith that type of army

[Gearhead]

Your challenge will be finding a way to incorporate a heavy flamer into the mix. Perhaps something intergrated into the RB is a way to get it done?

 

Slap that puppy on the shield, like Warmachine Man O' War or the Rover. You could get a real good phalanx feel if he had a spear and a large shield with the flamer coming out of the shield, a kind of damned if you do damned if you don't moment for the enemy.

[DarkGuard]

If you care about winning a lot, you use it by putting it on the shelf and have it look pretty until 6E. Drop pod armies are okay until the enemy learns to go full reserve.

 

Alex

 

Not quite. When one of my friends started running a Space Wolf Drop Pod army I put my entire army into Reserve. Got smashed. Same happened the next time. Worst thing? He had less points than me as well, having added it up wrong.

 

Now forgive my lack of modesty, but I'm a good player, in fact many at my LGS consider me one of the better players now. But I struggled so hard against Drop Pod army, and in the past I've struggled with them, it's my Achilles heel it seems. I've tried castling, I've tried reserving, nothing seems to work. Consider this. My opponent knows he will get half of his army on turn 1. He also gets to choose which units he gets. Therefore, knowing that people will be reserve he can deploy the best units to cope with that, blocking off easy shots to his units with Drop Pods, while near enough deploying them where he wants them. In my Turn 2, when he may have the rest of his army or most of it by now, I get some of my army, on average half of it. Already it's a bad match up.

 

Now consider that I don't get to pick which units turn up, so if I'm unlucky I have the worst units for the present time, or maybe a couple of units that don't work so well together and so on. So chances are I'm outnumbered and outgunned, I need to hit part of his line decisively to get a foothold. But if he's deployed well his force will be together. Now you can see the problem of playing against a good Drop Pod army. If you try and play his game you may well find you don't have the firepower and manpower to win. If you try and play your game you can react to it better.

 

Hopefully I'll get better against Drop Pod armies, but thankfully he's put that army away in favour of Grey Knight Purifier and Psyfleman Dread spam.

[ak-73]

Which ignores the fact that he's still on foot after drop podding; there's a reason foot-slogging marines is bad. You lack mobility (interesting if you have objectives spread out) and you are exposed to damage directly. You come down, I roll on to the field with my Preds and Razorbacks and Dreads and Land Speeders and open up immediately from distance. When the 3rd quarter of your army comes down in Turn 2, I am still in my metal boxes, safe and sound. You'll have to succeed, shooting me out of them in turn 2, which you won't manage across the board. Which means come turn 3, there is still significant parts of my army, you can't damage directly.

 

And fortunately for you, I will not have Vindicators because if run double or triple Vindicators, you'll have to fear very likely defeat.

 

Anyway it underscores why mobile firepower is important, stuff that can move 6'' or more and still shoot. Drop pod lists will run into trouble against a variety of army lists: mechanized BA, MechEldar, Dark Eldar, mechanized marines, Grey Knights with their 24'' kill zone, etc.

 

It's *fun* and you can win games but you probably won't win tournaments, that's all I am trying to say.

 

Alex

[DarkGuard]

The problem with tanks such as Preds though is that when they move on they'll only be able to shoot the one weapon, or none if you want to position them well. As for Vindicators, while they can be devastating to such an army if he's positioned them right he'll be getting cover saves, blocking shots, and may be forcing you to fire close to your troops. Finally, while mobility is an issue, so is a Space Marine army bereft of its Rhinos, and that could happen as early as Turn 1 in some games, in this case the Drop Pods will likely have him half way across the board, and in good positions. It's not a foolproof army or strategy, but the shock factor of it can wor and it can prove more of a challenge than simply reserving everything and rolling it on to counter-attack.

[spartan249]

There is no simple answer to drop pod armies like "reserve everything" or "castle up". An unprepared player will be worked no matter what army he's using.

 

Good pod armies, or ones that effectively prepare against "anti-pod" tactics via dead drop pods, Long range fire support mounted in pods, etc, are just as deadly as other more conventional marine army builds.

 

Anyway, keep this in mind when designing a drop army. Devastators and Thunderfire Cannons can be mounted in pods for a reason. Don't neglect ranged firepower.

[ak-73]

TFCs need complete blocking of LOS to be kept safe. If you drop, it counts as moved and can't fire, meaning it might get exposed to enemy fire. Given its range it is always the best idea to deploy it immediately at range and put mobile LOS blockers before it as necessary.

 

Devastators can likewise not fire on the turn they arrive and you are giving up the choice of a LasPlas Razorback for a drop pod. For what? Better positioning? Not worth it, 4xML should be able to accomplish any reasonable job you set out to do, even against front armour. Try to get side shots with your mobile heavy firepower instead.

 

Yeah, it's a fun list but not truly competitive; you'll die against a vanilla list of massed mobile long-range fire (which is a competitive all-comers list and one the vanilla marines excel at (blood angels are more mobile but more expensive thus lass massed mobile firing)).

 

Alex

[Iron Father Ferrum]

Yes, if the TFC or Devs come in on their pods, they lose a turn of shooting. This is true. But.

 

Buying a pod for them and then deploying them normally gives you your turn of shooting back AND an extra pod to play with when it comes to doling out which pods come in first turn. This way, if someone does go all-reserve, you can drop their empty pods first and save your shoot-to-kill-when-they-come-in stuff still in reserve.

[DarkGuard]

I think the key point here is that contrary to the general popular opinion, Drop Pods can be flexible armies. Many people expect them to simply Pod infront of the enemy, shoot down the stuff that can be taken out, ride out a retaliatory turn and then see what happens from there. This is one tactic, but as has already been highlighted there are lots of dirty tricks and strategies that can be used. A well built and mastered Drop Pod army will be tactically flexible, the same as a well built and mastered mech army. Not as flexible perhaps, but they certainly aren't constrained to one approach.

[Master Melta]

Darkguard you are spot on.

 

The key to facing drop podding armies is to remain calm, keep composed and destroy the enemy methodically.

 

If they are podding in, then you are going to lose something to melta, deal with it, plan for it and adapt. Don't freak out. If they are in all pods that really makes it easier than if they have a mixed force. When they drop and you lose a raider or a dread, after you shoot the asteroids off them, use the raider contents to clean up the remnants.

 

Podding armies are always two things:

 

1. Goons a.k.a. infantry, a well balanced marine force can handle that. a couple double flamer tactical squads come to mind...

 

2. Dreads a.k.a. tar pitting tank killing slow walkers. melta them, THSS Terminator them, or Mech the frig away from them

 

stay cool and let them supply the pork for your meat grinder.

 

MM

[Dust01]

Just think up a name for him and use his rules. "Counts as" is your friend.

 

Do I have your permission to quote you on this? This is sig-worthy!

[Warp Angel]

SOME drop pods (odd numbers) works well as part of an overall army strategy. But an all-drop pod army (even with fancy Librarian "Gate") tricks:

 

1) Consistently move from one objective to another objective in the mid and late game to contest or score.

2) Deliver hard-hitting template weapons that are the answer to some of the "uber" units in the game. - Yes, "Vindicator" answers many questions about "how do I kill..."

3) Is very vulnerable to anti-MEQ firepower with no ability to "turtle up" when needed.

4) Lacks the ability to deploy mobile cover and block LOS with vehicles to protect against long-range firepower, and has an overall weaker defense (D)

5) Subject to a small number of bad dice ruining your game by eliminating your Strategic or Situational (S) flexibility when reserves don't arrive timely.

6) Very difficult to employ effectively against horde armies that literally span table edge to table edge.

7) Once deployed, struggles to concentrate Killing power (K)

 

Scores low to moderate in Killhammer principles and performs like you'd expect it to given those principles.

[Koremu]

I note that Nobody has listed Tigurius yet.

 

His "re-roll your Reserve rolls" ability is a real helper with any Reserves based army, which a Pod army will inevitably be. He is best played at higher point values though.

 

He allows you to both speed deployment of your kill units, delay deployment of your objective claimers, and use the handy Gate trick.

 

You also want to consider the other synergistic benefits of a Drop Pod based army, one of my favourites of which is the combination of Locator Beacons and Multi-Melta Land Speeders. Pinpoint precision deployment of 3 Multi-Meltas with no opportunity for the enemy to shoot them is golden.

 

Also, don't forget the ability of Scout Bikers to pack a Locator Beacon and also Assault first turn. Using the Scout Bikers to guide the deployment of 2 Pods of fire support and then Assault with them to secure the Drop Zone is a great way to start the battle.

 

The "enemy reserves everything" isn't necessarily a problem either - you just have to have a plan ready for how to deal with it if it happens.

[Warp Angel]

+1 Koremu

 

I like how you are looking to maximize the ability to deploy a drop pod army effectively. Following the OP's "all drop pod" desire, the scout bikes and melta speeders are a bit more outside the box than I had been thinking.

 

Tigirius is a good choice at high points, but you're sacrificing a valuable HQ slot.

[Koremu]

He's only 80 points more than an Epistolary. If you are running Reserves and were taking a Librarian anyway... he's worth it.

 

3 powers/turn is not to be sniffed at either, especially when you consider he's much more flexible than a regular Librarian because he comes with all the powers, not just 2.

[Yotakka]

IMO the biggest downside to tigurious is the lack of an invul. yes he can use one of his 3 powers a turn to grant a 5+ to him and his squad but not comming with one stock is a bummer if he perils' at an inopertune time. and against eldar and nids hes almost garanteed to perils once a turn on 3d6 3 times a turn.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

IMO the biggest downside to tigurious is the lack of an invul. yes he can use one of his 3 powers a turn to grant a 5+ to him and his squad but not comming with one stock is a bummer if he perils' at an inopertune time. and against eldar and nids hes almost garanteed to perils once a turn on 3d6 3 times a turn.

 

That's a danger that confronts every Librarian, though. Even Mephiston, beast that he is, doesn't have an I-save. When I get around to buying all the pods I need to do an all-pod army, I for damn sure am going to bring a counts-as Tiggy to make sure that my boys come in when I need them.

[Yotakka]

That's a danger that confronts every Librarian, though.

 

apart from the TDA or TDA/SS libby your right.

 

and the reroll on reserves has won me a game or two... but im torn on tiggy(personaly, not saying this is right or wrong). I love the awsome story behind him and having every psycic power @ my disposal, but the points and what a TDA/SS/Epistolry libby can do in combat is arguably better