Taz Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I have a doubles tournament coming up this saturday, and I'm currently in the middle of a paint-a-thon to finish off a 1250 point army list so it looks at least semi-finished in time to stomp some heads. However, my head-stomping is not the reason for the thread. Being the ADD-riddled hobby mutant that I am I spent most of my wednesday converting one of my metal DC marines that I stripped and am re-painting for my list to make him at least 75%-130% more awesome by having him mid-stride ripping a chaos marine into pieces, complete with GS gore-splatter. I'd post a WIP but alas I have no decent camera to use. Anyway tomorrow (or today, I suppose) is my last day to really pound everything out and I need to decide what to paint the bits of the chaos marine up as. I want to try to stick to the original traitor Legions, but I might do a renegade if I hear a convincing enough excuse. So what does the survey say, boys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 No survey needed. It's the Black Legion. They killed Sanguinius, the Talon of Horus that killed him is still worn by Abaddon, Abaddon ran amok in the Blood Angels devastator lines in some battle and really, really upset them. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Black Legion. Their dad killed our dad. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taz Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 I was leaning towards Black Legion. I was curious to see if there were any other traitor legions we had a special place in our murder-lists for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws of Corax Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Black Legion.. My Reasoning is that Sanguinius and Horus were very close brothers. Horus' betrayal sending Sanguinius and the Blood Angels to the Signus Cluster ambush. Finally Horus killed Sanguinius.. what further reason do the Blood Angels need to hate Horus' corupt legion. Claws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black_Sky Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Black Legion. With Abbadon in particular. Previous codex, Abbadon had a rule which made space marines fear him (I think), except Blood Angels who got the Hatred special rule against him. I do beleive the Dark Angels had a similar exception, if I'm not much mistaken... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelOfDeathXIII Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Of course the Black Legion! But I think the World Eaters are a good second place, for several reasons: 1. because it was another close-combat oriented Legion there always was a rivalry with them. 2. the Blood Angels hold them in contempt because they coudln't keep their rage and longing for close combat under control. And besides the Black Legion and World Eaters of course Blood Angels who joined Chaos! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBMAKENZIE Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Fabius Bile, he took our blood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nihm Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 No survey needed. It's the Black Legion. They killed Sanguinius, the Talon of Horus that killed him is still worn by Abaddon, Abaddon ran amok in the Blood Angels devastator lines in some battle and really, really upset them. Again. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 makan ix if i recall my 2nd ed codex chaos correctly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahawk Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Hell, I'm gonna throw one more vote for the Black Legion just because I can. There even used to be rules for our hatred towards the Legion. While other Chapters were affected by fear by the Talon of Horus, we got hatred. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elric the Silvercoat Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I am going to say Black Legion but I am not sure why I would say that after reading this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanguinarian Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Fabius Bile, he took our blood? Surely, you jest, right? @Taz: I've often thought of doing an interchangeable piece so as not to be prejudiced against any one particular Traitor Legion or xenos. But then that means I would have to paint multiple enemies to lay crushed underfoot of my heroe's foot. I say put any Chaos SM torso, legs, etc down, gore it up beyond recognition and magnetize multiple helmets to interchange before each battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eerie Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Background-wise I'd recommend Black Legion as well, but modelling-wise it may look suboptimal to have a black Marine tearing up another black Marine. And to further it, just because they hold the Black Legion in particular contempt doesn't mean they would treat someone from another Chaos legion any nicer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhorneHunter57x Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I agree with the Black Legion votes. It's a bit late for it this time, but another thing you could do (possibly in the future?) is convert up the Traitor Marine being shredded/torn/slain/on the recieving end of the Emperor's Wrath to be the Arch-Traitor Horus himself, as if you are viewing the scene through the eyes of a Death Company marine. Also, that way you wouldn't have to worry about it matching your opponent's army (eh, they all look like Horus to me...err :wub: ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I vote Black Legion for the reasons already stated, Also i would say just for fun the Pre heresy Emp children, because they valued beauty and perfection even more than the BA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 No survey needed. It's the Black Legion. They killed Sanguinius, the Talon of Horus that killed him is still worn by Abaddon, Abaddon ran amok in the Blood Angels devastator lines in some battle and really, really upset them. Again. +1 +2 :) as for Fabius bile. Black library books are never canon if you ask me. Not even the horus heresy books (though ive seen plenty of people count those latter as canon...) so i dont see the blood angels having more of a problem with him other then his even more psychotic, manipulative and downright bothersome then 'normal' chaos marines are <_< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 1 black legion, as fore mentioned 2 world eaters, sanguinius stared down their primarch at the walls of terra, and they worship khorn, and we keep killing his best bloodthirster... 3 ironwarriors, becasue it would look well and they fight so differently to us, they shoot to its in pieces the charge, we charge and smash it into pieces. they are bionic and were fleshy. quite opposites... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Tezdal Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 I agree with the Black Legion posts, that claw doohick on ole Abby's hand impaled your primarch, seems rather hatred inspiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Black library books are never canon if you ask me. Not even the horus heresy books (though ive seen plenty of people count those latter as canon...) Why would you say that? I mean the BL books are cleared by the GW IP the same as a Codex, no? Their content has their seal of approval and it seems to me they are as canon as any fluff from any Codex. Are BL books sometimes below par or even conflicting with other GW sourced material? Sure thing! But retconning and inconsistencies also exist in the Codices (as well as some outright ridiculus stuff). Don't get me wrong, I'd love to join your side, some (all?) the stories about the Lion I would love to ignore as non-existant! But I can't. GW IP approved them so I have to live with them the same as the fluff from the Codex. Saying a BL book is not canon is like saying Codex A is more valid than Codex B. No matter the possible inconsistencies both stand! You have to rationalize any problems best way you can and move on... If you got a better argument as to why one should ignore the BL products as not canonical I'd love to hear it! On the subject of who BAs hate the most, I'd say Black Legion too. I recall ADB description of the BAs arriving to fight off the Chaos fleet in "Soul Hunter" where the main enemy was of course Abaddon - NL were just a side-show in the big picture. And boy did they have an effect!!! The entire Chaos fleet was scared to death of the BAs... Epic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustonT Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Fabius Bile, he took our blood? No. This never happened. NEVER... pretty much like every other Swallow book in the BA series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AustonT Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Black library books are never canon if you ask me. Not even the horus heresy books (though ive seen plenty of people count those latter as canon...) Why would you say that? I mean the BL books are cleared by the GW IP the same as a Codex, no? Their content has their seal of approval and it seems to me they are as canon as any fluff from any Codex. Are BL books sometimes below par or even conflicting with other GW sourced material? Sure thing! But retconning and inconsistencies also exist in the Codices (as well as some outright ridiculus stuff). Don't get me wrong, I'd love to join your side, some (all?) the stories about the Lion I would love to ignore as non-existant! But I can't. GW IP approved them so I have to live with them the same as the fluff from the Codex. Saying a BL book is not canon is like saying Codex A is more valid than Codex B. No matter the possible inconsistencies both stand! You have to rationalize any problems best way you can and move on... If you got a better argument as to why one should ignore the BL products as not canonical I'd love to hear it! ! Challenge Accepted George emphasized that Black Library’s main objective was to “tell good stories”. He agreed that some points in certain novels could, perhaps, have benefited from the editor’s red pen (a certain multilaser was mentioned) but was at pains to explain that, just as each hobbyist tends to interpret the background and facts of the Warhammer and 40k worlds differently, so does each author. In essence, each author represents an “alternative” version of the respective worlds. After pressing him further, he explained that only the Studio material (rulebooks, codexes, army books and suchlike) was canonical in that is HAD to be adhered-to in the plots and background of the novels. There was no obligation on authors to adhere to facts and events as spelled out in Black Library work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 in order for black library novels to be canon ALL black library novels have to be canon. And honestly if every book (or fanfic) ever written was considered canon id go insane trying to keep track of it all. I consider the rulesbook and the codexi canon. The rest are just nice stories to read :lol: and honestly, do we want to deus stories and 'rafens adventures into space' that follow to be canon? really? and thats just naming 1 particular series as an example ;) yea the horus heresy books are nice. i prefered it when the days of the 30th milenium were a mystery though -_- adds a certain charm to the whole 40k setting since you dont know WHAT happend, just what people in the aftermath told you :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmagog Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 I think Mr ADB has stated all Black Library stuff is canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Challenge Accepted George emphasized that Black Library’s main objective was to “tell good stories”. He agreed that some points in certain novels could, perhaps, have benefited from the editor’s red pen (a certain multilaser was mentioned) but was at pains to explain that, just as each hobbyist tends to interpret the background and facts of the Warhammer and 40k worlds differently, so does each author. In essence, each author represents an “alternative” version of the respective worlds. After pressing him further, he explained that only the Studio material (rulebooks, codexes, army books and suchlike) was canonical in that is HAD to be adhered-to in the plots and background of the novels. There was no obligation on authors to adhere to facts and events as spelled out in Black Library work. Well it was not really a challenge... However the above quote is pretty conclusive. Is it recent? And is it actually a quote by George Mann? Because it seems that it is an account of a third person that talked to him and tells us about it. I am not disputing the accuracy of the content, it is just strange to have a quote by George Mann starting with "George emphasized..." Anyway, the sentence that proves your point is the last one not the one with bold. Which in principle means that there could two books from BL knowngly contradicting each other because the respective authors do not feel they are committed by each others work. And BL would publish both if both are "good stories". However I'm sure the exact opposite happens. Writers do indeed try to be as "well researched" as possible when writing about a subject taking into account as many things as possible that are written before and are relevant to their story. I'm kind of confused... in order for black library novels to be canon ALL black library novels have to be canon. And honestly if every book (or fanfic) ever written was considered canon id go insane trying to keep track of it all. I consider the rulesbook and the codexi canon. The rest are just nice stories to read :lol: and honestly, do we want to deus stories and 'rafens adventures into space' that follow to be canon? really? and thats just naming 1 particular series as an example ;) yea the horus heresy books are nice. i prefered it when the days of the 30th milenium were a mystery though :) adds a certain charm to the whole 40k setting since you dont know WHAT happend, just what people in the aftermath told you :P :lol: There is very little I disagree with in the above! It's indeed difficult to keep track of all the books out there just to be on top of the fluff. I do not know about the Deus stories (own them but haven't read them yet) to form an opinion but there are stuff out there I'd rather never saw printed. But they are. And canon or not they do have GW blessing. So they are far from irrelevant. Especially the HH series that describe fundamental events that shaped the 40k Universe. I mean if you do not like Blood Reaver for example (yeah right ;)) that's fine. the story did not alter the 40k Universe. It is a story that if it didn't happen the basic factions would still be the same with the same agendas. I agree that HH series takes something away but also gives something back: new characters, exploration of the Primarchs characters, plus nice stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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