Azrael Turnbull Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Listen up, barbarians: My Space Wolf rival (and reluctantly, my friend) and I have decided to put our differences aside to enter a local doubles tournement. It follows the same rules as the Warhammer world one, just less people and not so many awards. My list is a Deathwing one. Belial, 2 TH/SS termies w/ Cyclones (one with full command upgrades) and a Typhoon. My friend is thinking about fielding a Loganwing list to compliment it, but is unsure about effectiveness. We decided it was best to ask the opinion of the veteran (although, unorthodox) opinion of the Space Wolf ancients (yourselves). So, what would you say is best to take in a 750pt Space Wolves list to work alongside the long time Dark Angels rivals? (Don't worry, when the tournement is done, we will continue to bicker and punch each other as always. ;) ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 that's not a lot of bodies and scoring units we're talking about, unless he's taking PA wolfguard asswell.... logan himself already costs a :cussload of points in a 750 list! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Does he? That's a shame, Belial's only 130pts. Ok, so Loganwing is out of the question. What would you suggest? ;) (I don't know much about the point system of Space wolves or how to use them, only the best way to hit them with a Thunder Hammer) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906290 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 logan comes in at 275pts so aye. good solid unit choices are rune priests, wolf priests, grey hunters,wolfguard as leaders etc etc. since you're packing not a lot of models (10 scoring ones) i'd suggest he tries to make his list contain a lot of mobile scoring units, as well as some heavy AT which you seem to be missing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906292 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 I agree with your point about the scoring units. I believe Wolves are much better at that area than Dark Angels, too; what with Dark Angels being 165pts a tactical squad with no special abilities, 1 attack and no free special weapons. As for Anti tank... I have 6 Krak Rockets and a Multi-Melta in 750pts. What about Razorwolves then? 4 or 5 Razorbacks with plenty of Meltaguns. Should leave some poitns over too... Actually, that sounds very nice. What do you think? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906296 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 you should ask your teammate, every wolf has his own way of hunting ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906299 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 I am. He's here with me, just doesn't have an account, lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Sounds like you have the majority of the tank-busting covered. I would have your friend play to your weaknesses. Since you're not going to field many models using a Deathwing, he should bring as many PA bodies onto the field as he can muster. Theoretically, at 150pts per full squad, your friend can field 50 Grey Hunters at 750pts flat. Base the army around that notion and start trimming the fat. Dock one pack @ 150pts, take a Rune Priest for 100pts and a Rhino for 35pts and you're left with 15pts to toss a melta gun into three of the remaining four GH packs (add a second melta per pack for free due to full 10man). Additionally, you can dock another pack (or two) and rinse/repeat or upgrade the rhino to razorback or drop pod. Or you could take a 5man pack of scouts in trade for one of the GH packs, armed with a melta and bombs. Docking two GH packs in exchange for what I listed in the first example would leave you with 32 models and 2 tanks on the table at 750pts: 3 full packs of GHs, with at most 6 melta guns, and 2 Rune Priests. Mix and match however you like to play, but this is a pretty straight forward example, albeit lacking SW flare. The one thing I highly advise is the Rune Priest (or two). Point for point, there is barely any other non-character model that can stand up to the amount of damage a standard load-out Rune Priest can do. Whether you keep him in the back lines firing Living Lightning or riding to the gunline in a rhino, popping top to crush them with JotWW, you're going to cause massive damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906312 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted October 22, 2011 Author Share Posted October 22, 2011 Thank you Wulfebane, this is exactly the kind of advice we needed. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906315 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firenze Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Power armour always complements TDA very well, due the amount of bodies you can bring. In games I played with an old member here (Vassakov), he used a very TDA heavy list, while I use a very PA heavy list with mobility. The TDA can draw fire, and withstand it, while the little PA guys dart around causing the real damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsavong Lah Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Wolves are pretty individualistic and tend to fight in their own way, but something like this is probably what I would run if I were in his situation: Rune Priest, Chooser of the Slain, Wolf Tail Talisman (riding with the smaller GH pack) Powers: Living Lightening, Jaws of the World Wolf Grey Hunters x9, Meltagun, Powerfist, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino Grey Hunters x10, Plasmagun x2, Powerfist, Wolf Standard, Mark of the Wulfen, Rhino Long Fangs x6, Missile Launcher x3, Plasma Cannon, Lascannon =750 points on the nose. The two Grey Hunter units are incredibly versatile—they are fantastic at holding objectives, can provide solid offensive support both at range and in close combat, and can take on a fair number of units all by themselves. They're also mounted and quite mobile, allowing them to switch battle objectives on the fly, if need be, and get to places that the Terminators normally couldn't. The Rune Priest provides some great surgical fire support with his two spells, is pretty helpful in close combat with that Force Weapon, and can shut down enemy psychic powers. Finally, between the Long Fangs and your own DA Missile Launchers, the team has an incredible amount of long range fire support that can really pound an enemy before everyone hits CC. And I always want at least one Lascannon of the field. Hopefully that's helpful. Obviously your friend will have a different playstyle than I do, but I would suggest that he at least bring two large Grey Hunter units mounted in Rhinos or three mid-sized Grey Hunter units mounted in Razorbacks, filling out the rest of the points to taste. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 With Tsavong Lah's recommendation, I disagree with the powerfists. For the points scale, 50pts on two models is a bit excessive imo. Maybe just one powerfist instead, but I wouldn't give it to both because ideally, one of the GH packs would be held back a bit to play rearguard, meaning they likely wouldn't see melee unless necessary. They'd stay back, hold objectives while rapid firing, as their counterpart pack of GHs run to the fore, tearing things up. If only the one pf, I'd put the RP with the non-pf pack, popping LL from afar and helping hold the back field with JotWW. I'm a huge melta fan, not so much a plasma fan, given the points and life-threatening potential, so I'd definitely swap the ratio in the above list: 2x meltas and 1x plasma. More tank/monster-busting potential for less points. Plus, putting the one plasma in the 9-man GH with RP, keeping them back from the frontline is more advantageous than leaving the one melta in the back line (in combination with my suggestion). I also dislike the idea of even MORE long range support, given how much is provided by the Deathwing, but I agree with the sentiment on the lascannon, so I'm torn on the issue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthstar Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Did the rest of you guys sit up in your chairs and plant your beer when you read "barbarians" ? My Brothers are right though, he needs to bring the PA bodies to the field, and I'd vote for land speeders if you guys have them available. Thunderwolves too. This is one situation I would recommend him laying off Long Fangs just because he needs to be the quick/light dagger with high mobility to your rock and the distance of your CMLs. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillen Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 No. People in skirts tring to insult me just makes me laugh. Cross dressers just have a need to draw attention. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906758 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonSTeR Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Docking two GH packs in exchange for what I listed in the first example would leave you with 32 models and 2 tanks on the table at 750pts: 3 full packs of GHs, with at most 6 melta guns, and 2 Rune Priests. Mix and match however you like to play, but this is a pretty straight forward example, albeit lacking SW flare. The one thing I highly advise is the Rune Priest (or two). Point for point, there is barely any other non-character model that can stand up to the amount of damage a standard load-out Rune Priest can do. Whether you keep him in the back lines firing Living Lightning or riding to the gunline in a rhino, popping top to crush them with JotWW, you're going to cause massive damage. You're selling your idea short!!! If you've got melta equipped GHs and 2 RP (always two there are, a master and an apprentice) it's FULL of SW flare, just not full of SW cliche. If I ever start tournamenting again, I'm coming to you to hammer my list into shape. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 By flare, I meant there was no MotW, no Wolf Guard, no wolves of any kind, really (fenrisian, thunderwolf, wulfen, wolf lords, etc etc). It's just the best tac squad in the game plus the best direct-damage psyker in the game (imo) mulitplied to meet the point cap. Doesn't really fit any niches or purpose-based units, like tank-busting scouts or LFs, or rush-to-dominate the enemy gunline like TWCs or Swiftclaws. It's very all-around and tactically sound (only when paired with the MLs the Deathwing's bringing), but it isn't screaming murderous predators to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2906843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LakotaWolf Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Whats really funny is the skirted marine calls us Barbarians, when he dont know the difference between Emissary and Embassy got to love the thread title "Greetings, Wolf Brothers, An embassy from the Dark Angels" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2907418 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICHD? Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Did the rest of you guys sit up in your chairs and plant your beer when you read "barbarians" ? My Brothers are right though, he needs to bring the PA bodies to the field, and I'd vote for land speeders if you guys have them available. Thunderwolves too. This is one situation I would recommend him laying off Long Fangs just because he needs to be the quick/light dagger with high mobility to your rock and the distance of your CMLs. I put my beer down, certainly, if only to laugh at the pitiful insults of a so-called Astartes wearing the garb of a tavern wench <_< Just to stay on topic and chuck in my 2 cents worth: can't really argue with a pack of Blood Claws led by Lukas. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2907434 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 Did the rest of you guys sit up in your chairs and plant your beer when you read "barbarians" ? My Brothers are right though, he needs to bring the PA bodies to the field, and I'd vote for land speeders if you guys have them available. Thunderwolves too. This is one situation I would recommend him laying off Long Fangs just because he needs to be the quick/light dagger with high mobility to your rock and the distance of your CMLs. That post mad me chuckle. =) Nrthstar, out of curiosity, what does PA stand for? Yes, Quillen, Dark Angels are attention seekers. You obviously have our chapter thoroughly figured out. And the dress thing? You Wolves use it so often it's barely an insult anymore; I don't even feel like rising with an insult of my own. :huh: LakotaWolf, your post is my favourite as it is horribly incorrect. I do know the difference. Emissary: A person sent on a special mission, usually as a diplomatic representative. Embassy: 1) A mission, especially one undertaken by an ambassador. 2) The official residence or offices of an ambassador. 3) The staff working in such a building. And more... I believe that you'll find that by applying definition '1)' that my title makes perfect sense. Using emissary, although probably more appropriate for this case, would make the title mean something different but still achieve the same end. My return comment for you is pointing out your own literature mistakes: 'Whats really funny is the skirted marine calls us Barbarians, when he dont know the difference between Emissary and Embassy' Try this: 'What's really funny is that the skirted Marine calls us barbarians (no comma) when he doesn't know the difference between emissary and embassy'. As for the rest of you, I offer my thanks for your invaluable advise. I look forward to returning here with news of the victory achieved by our combined highly esteemed chapters. The alternative, of course, would be for my partner and I to place the blame on each other if we fail. Such is the way of the Wolves and the Dark Angels. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2907676 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 What - no Long Fang missile spam abuse? That's not wolfy :) Cramming extra 5 rockets for 2 x 750 points will bring Your lists and extra edge (and quite a sharp one). I'd start with getting one Rune Priest and a pack of Long Fangs, before loading up on Grey Hunter packs. Aye, and greetings the Dark Angel, welcome to the Fang. Sorry no beer for You, but milk's over there :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2907740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valerian Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 PA= Power Armoured. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2907744 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nrthstar Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 PA= Power Armoured. Yeah sorry, I just got a chance to sit down and read new posts till now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2907762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted October 24, 2011 Author Share Posted October 24, 2011 What - no Long Fang missile spam abuse? That's not wolfy :) Cramming extra 5 rockets for 2 x 750 points will bring Your lists and extra edge (and quite a sharp one). I'd start with getting one Rune Priest and a pack of Long Fangs, before loading up on Grey Hunter packs. Aye, and greetings the Dark Angel, welcome to the Fang. Sorry no beer for You, but milk's over there :P Now that's an insult worthy of me offering you a drink, brother Wolf. I can hold me Monkish Ale just fine, by the way. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2907776 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CainTheHunter Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 This is a rough summary of my suggestions - I left the second power for RP empty, as well as there are 10 free points left for the roster. Rune Priest Bolt Pistol, Chooser of the Slain, Living Lightning, Power Armour, Runic Weapon 5x Wolf Scout Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Meltagun Grey Hunters Pack 10x Grey Hunter, Meltagun, Meltagun, Power Weapon, Rhino, Wolf Standard Grey Hunters Pack 10x Grey Hunter, Meltagun, Meltagun, Power Weapon, Rhino, Wolf Standard Long Fangs Pack Squad Leader, 4 Long Fangs, Missile Launcher Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2907793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfebane Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 That's probably close to what I'd do. I loves me some scout action, but I still think I'd hold off on the LFs, and I'd get itchy if I only had 1 HQ when I have the option of 4, even if I only took 2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240695-greetings-wolf-brothers/#findComment-2907804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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