bmcsw007 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 Currently I have three HQs in my army list: Marneus Calgar, Cato Sicarius, and a Chaplain (with jump pack). I normally go with Marneus in larger point games and my chaplain in smaller point games, but I am wondering if tactically which of the three everyone else uses, OR should I look into recruiting a new HQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Validar Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 The Librarian is a wonderful HQ - very cheap, psychic defense and full of utility. Additionally, he works with a lot of different types of armies, since you can switch between his different psychic powers as you make a new list. Personally by far my favorite HQ - fun to play and he works very well on the table too, which isn't such a bad thing either :jaw: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmcsw007 Posted October 23, 2011 Author Share Posted October 23, 2011 Yea, I was was watching a Librarian last night while playing a game. That is partially why I was thinking of a new HQ. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 For the three HQs you mentioned, they can all be good tactically. While Calgar is very expensive he is a beast. He has a tonne of attacks and wounds, thanks to EW, his Iron Halo and if you give it his Termy armour he can stand up to a lot of punishment. And then he can deal it out in kind, thanks to his God of War ability, paired power fists, power sword and AP2 storm bolter. And tactically he's very good, as he allows you to pass or fail morale tests, so helps you keep your force in order. And if you're running some Terminators he comes with a teleport homer in his Terminator armour, so can be useful there. If you get him a good ret and possibly a good transport, and make sure he gets forward and stays alive he can be very handy. However, points cost would mean I wouldn't use him as much as the others. I've had some use out of Sicarius, and I find he works best when you've got a few Tactical squads all geared differently to take advantage of one of his rules. So for example you have a meltagun and lascannon squad to give Tank Hunters to. Or a flamer squad to give Counter-attack to. Or perhaps a small squad in an assault cannons Razorback for Scouts, for Outflanking. Those are just some ideas, and he really makes a force more flexible. Plus with Rites of Battle he keeps your army in the fight more, but you can also still use Combat Tactics. Don't forget that his ability also lets you re-roll Seize the Initiative which can surprise your opponent. While he isn't the best in combat thanks to his power sword and plasma pistol pairing, he can pick off some bigger monsters and maybe characters with his sword ability, while his plasma pistol fits in perfectly with a quad plasma gun Command squad. Don't chuck him in unsupported though, he will die. As for the jump Chaplain, he's the cheapest of the lot. I always give mine digi weapons though and maybe meltabombs if I have points left over so it comes to 125-130pts which is a bargain. Obviously his tactical use is obvious, put him in an Assault/ jump Vanguard squad and chuck them at the nearest enemy, preferably one that you need to clean up, although with the re-rolls to hit you can take on some bigger units as well. Obviously though you want to do as much damage on the initial charge, and thanks to fearless you won't be able to jump out and re-charge if things are going badly. But I'm sure you know all this anyway. Out of the lot Sicarius would fit in my 3rd Company army the best, while Calgar would fit in my Terminator/Scout army the best. However, if I were to use jump troops the Chaplain would be best. As for other options, the other SCs are always pretty good and unique, if a little overplayed, especially Vulkan. The Libby is also overplayed as well, but is so useful for so little points you can see why. The psychic hood isn't a massive factor to me, I find that against the majority of Ld10 psykers it doesn't do so well. Rather it's his Null Zone and Avenger I like him for, though Might is good as well. A good support unit, although if you want something a bit more killy than the Captain, Chaplain or SC Captains tend to be better. At the moment though I use a Chapter Master (so I can get Honour Guard) and Libby in my 1750 3rd Company list, and Lysander and a Term Libby in my 1750 Terminator/Scout list, so I'd say that's a definite yes to the Libby then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 23, 2011 Share Posted October 23, 2011 at the moment im using cassius and khan, but before that it was shrike.. tbh you cant go wrong with calgar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathnid Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 pedro kantor :3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Another vote for the Librarian. I love my MOTF, but that's because I tend to go Dread-heavy, and the Libby adds so much utility to a force its amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekLee688 Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 As of now, libby. If I had my choice, contemptor dread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 I used to run Captains and Librarians almost exclusively, but I've discovered a real fondness for Chaplains of late. Fearlessness is a huge boon to those units you just can't afford to have break from Morale tests. My 10-man Terminator squad, for example. Join a Chaplain to any unit with high durability, and you can almost walk across the board at will. The rerolls to hit on the charge are also useful to almost any unit. It applies to grenades and meltabombs, too, so don't forget about that! Chaplains are decidedly less useful for 5-man squads. You really need the 10-man unit to make full use of his abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak-73 Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 Cassius > Chaplain unless you need Terminator or jump-packed Chappy for whatever reason. Librarian remains the mist popular choice, Captain is also good. Librarian, Captain, Cassius should be considered the premier picks for competitive play due to being just cheap. Then there is Vulkan who is awesome for the price but requires to force as much melta/flamers in as possible. Other HQ SCM only if you want to play a specific chapter or just love the character for whatever reason. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yotakka Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 annother vote for librarian here. Although if your not opposed to named characters Pedro is pretty sweet. whole army stubborn and a banner built right in is awsome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Base captain on a bike, artificer armor, relic blade, hellfire ammunition. The flexibility that I get with having bikes available as troops is awesome, and the captain himself is a potent force on his own. Effective 2+ save and T5 against volume attacks, S6 power weapon at initiative, and incredible mobility. Bodyguard him up by attaching him to the bike squad and they make each other more survivable through effective wound allocation. Twin-linked, relentless, wound anything on a 2+ BS5 bolters are nothing to sneeze at either. I tried Kantor with lots of success, but he's not efficient on his own. A PF is wasted on a captain and he lacks artificer armor which inhibits survivability. I admit to the massive utility of Sicarius, Vulkan, and Khan, but thematically and strategically, I don't build armies that leverage their abilities to the fullest. Calgar is... awesome. I've built my own "Warp Angels" version of him using the DA robed bodies and some of the millions of bits that I have. But I find it hard to justify his cost in the armies I play. The metagame is moving around enough that a Librarian might be a good choice, but I'd be fundamentally altering the balance of my all-comers army to do so, and not sure that it would remain as effective as it is now. I don't focus on assault, so a chaplain is of limited utility. If I radically alter my base army, or when I play Apocalypse, I use other HQ choices, but in all honesty, the bike captain configuration I listed has been awesomesauce for me for years. For some older thoughts on how to evaluate HQs, see the "HQ" link in my sig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Definitely consider adding a Librarian to your toolkit. Additionally, a Librarian in TDA with a SS is a boss. I love the guy. Calgar is amazing; I miss him more than anything from the vanilla codex. Anything else I might add is just reiterating what others have said. <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkrieg861 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I really liked Shrike from C:SM. It wasn't the most competative of lists but I ran Shrike with 3 units of close combat scouts, a unit of assault marines, 3 dreds in drop pods and some shooty stuff. It's fun assaulting tau or imperial guard with 40 guys on turn 1 :woot: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptiMAT Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 The basics (in my, and probably others', opinion) would be a Chaplain and Captain. I also added a Librarian, because they have some interesting specialities that only get stronger when accompanying a squad. For me, MOTF is a bit of a miss, but if you're into your shooty stuff then it's an obvious choice to be able to increase Dreadnought number and tank survivability. Chapter Master also seems like a bit of a waste of points compared to Captain unless you're in a large point game on a large table where Orbital Strike becomes useful and not just a bit of overkill... For me, a Captain + *something else* depending on your fluff and interests is always going to be good to go with, because they're all pretty solid choices and base skills are all pretty similar across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Chapter Master also seems like a bit of a waste of points compared to Captain unless you're in a large point game on a large table where Orbital Strike becomes useful and not just a bit of overkill... For me, a Captain + *something else* depending on your fluff and interests is always going to be good to go with, because they're all pretty solid choices and base skills are all pretty similar across the board. Don't forget the real reason why people take Chapter Masters. They don't take him for the OB, they take him for Honour Guard, one of the Codex's premier melee units. While lacking in the durability against power weapon and low AP attacks unlike Hammernators, they make up for it by costing cheaper than them, being able to be transported in Rhinos and Razorbacks (rather than the expensive Rhino) and put out a lot of power weapon attacks which makes them fantastic anti-horde and anti-infantry units. That's the real reason why people like Idaho and myself take a Chapter Master, if I could have Honour Guard with my Captain I would take the Captain. Your last comment is bang on the money though, although I would change it to Captain/Chapter Master and HG + "something else". The former choice brings a solid combat hero to the table, while the second brings some much needed support for other units. You can get by with only one of them, and many lists do well with them, but it is fun fielding more than one HQ and it can work in larger point games very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptiMAT Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 That's a fair point about Honour Guard, they do open up some really nice choices to complement a Space Marine force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunslinger87 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 For smaller games? I think cassius is an absolute steal. 125 points for a toughness 6 chaplain with a master-crafted combi-flamer with hellfire rounds, feel no pain and an extra bolt pistol? Take a basic chappy, give him a combi-flamer... thats already 115. Master crafted is usually 10 points, as are hellfire rounds... feel no pain? how much would YOU pay for it on your HQ? extra attack for the bolt pistol? (with a combi-flamer thee chappy loses his bolt pistol) equivalent of a Mark of Khorne- 10 pts for HQ.... finally... toughness 6? A mark of nurgle costs 20? And thats just +1... and keeps said unit at T4 for instant death. Basically makes Cassius eternal warrior... how much does that cost in the SW book? 35 points for saga of the bear? That would be 215 + feel no pain.... costing 125... no question... Obviously this is a named character, and also has his downsides. But one of the best value-for-money units in the codex... if not the whole game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Git jimmy Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I'm a sucker for HQ's that open up force org. slots for other things, so I'm partial to kantor because he makes the wonderfully useful Sternguard vets count as scoring units, and the Master of the Forge so I can still take dreads (my elites are filled up w/sternguard vets and terminators). They're not the best fighters or anything, but they have the rest fo the army to do their killing for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I'd also like to say something in favour of the not-very-humble honour guard; on the few occasions I have fielded them (each time in a 2500+ point game) they were, for lack of a better word, über. Whatever they were pointed at died very quickly. Considering every model has a power weapon, they can, for example, mob a terminator squad and kill it quite easily through the sheer weight of numbers of insta-kill attacks (arguably even if it was a ten man squad) and have the poor buggers fail their invulnerable saves merely through laws of probability. :P One combat turn is the quickest I've seen mine breeze through a top-tier unit (Nob Bikers), three or four combat turns being the slowest to date (Bloodcrushers). The only real drawback is the cost. They are pretty damned expensive for a unit that can suffer under other units power weapons (never let them get charged). Edit: Just read Gunslinger's post. Holy moly, I'm never taking a regular chappy again! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinnock Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 The only reasons I would ever take a chappy that's not cassius is if I need him with a jump pack, or if he is teleporting in with termies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak-73 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 And you don't need a chaplain mini for your counts-as Cassius. If you don't want to field Command Squads, you can also designate any power weaponed Captain as counts-as Cassius. Crozium-> Power Weapon, Rosarius -> Iron halo. Done. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkGuard Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 And you don't need a chaplain mini for your counts-as Cassius. If you don't want to field Command Squads, you can also designate any power weaponed Captain as counts-as Cassius. Crozium-> Power Weapon, Rosarius -> Iron halo. Done. Alex That's a bit of a stretch, the model would have none of the Chaplain regalia etc. I can accept a Chaplain without a skull helm if they have a crozius and vice-versa, and can accept a Captain with power weapon standing in as say, Captain Khan, but when in the next game he starts running around as Chaplain Cassius I have to put my foot down. And please remember he has a combi-flamer, so that Captain had better have a combi-flamer on him, and no, a combi-melta will not count, that's a combi-melta. Now if he was proxying with the intent to get or convert Cassius then I'd be fine with it, but not to have a normal Captain slapped infront of me and told that he counts as Chaplain Cassius because he has an inherent 4++ save and a power weapon modelled. But really, this is what I dislike about counts as, seems to have gone from, "it'd be cool to take that SC but I don't want to repaint my minis" to "what's the easiest way to make a hard list with little effort and regard to the fluff". My Chapter is the Knights Seraphic, and so, for the most part, I don't use SCs, as none of them are from the Knights Seraphic. Rather, SCs only come out in special occasions when I need force org changes, so mainly Belial for my planned Terminator armour, a facet of my Knights Seraphic Chapter, successor Chapter of the Dark Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak-73 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Well, since Cassius is the best way to emulate Captain Cortez, I wouldn't care where you'd put your foot down. :) Seriously, I'm pretty loose when it comes to that; it's just a game after all and as long as I understand who counts as what I don't mind. (and a combi-flamer is easily enough chopped together for those that care). He doesn't need chaplain regalia either: it's just a captain without command squad who is good at firing up his troops in melee and who makes them fearless due to his inspiring aura. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear of Achilles Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Khan and Tigurius, because they make my bike/assault army a thing to be feared (usually pair Tig with termies to gate ina fter the reserve re-rolls are done). He's $$$$ but three powers a turn and a hood are awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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