gogmagog Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Does Magnus ever find out that it was Horus who gave the order to wipe out the 1000 sons, after amending the Emperors orders? I mean he must have sussed some time? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted October 24, 2011 Share Posted October 24, 2011 Does Magnus ever find out that it was Horus who gave the order to wipe out the 1000 sons, after amending the Emperors orders? I mean he must have sussed some time? Never read any canon confirming it but I would speculate that as the smartest Primarch with a penchant for knowledge.....he would know. But what's he gonna do with this information? To my memory there's no known animosity between 1k sons and BL so I'm guessing he just holds Russ responsible Saa ...or something like that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2907720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2908997 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ.... The traditional story has always been that the Emperor only told Russ to bring Magnus in, but that Horus told Russ to kill Magnus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2909010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 But Horus was already a traitor and everyone knew it! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2909051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ.... The traditional story has always been that the Emperor only told Russ to bring Magnus in, but that Horus told Russ to kill Magnus. Actually thats not the traditional story, thats the rebooted version, Originally Horus had no part in it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2909075 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabadin Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 This is stretching my memory back, but originally wasn't prospero sacked after the battle for terra in retaliation for joining sides with horus? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2909113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarKnight Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ.... The traditional story has always been that the Emperor only told Russ to bring Magnus in, but that Horus told Russ to kill Magnus. Actually thats not the traditional story, thats the rebooted version, Originally Horus had no part in it. When was this rebooted? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2909130 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominicus Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 As far as the current edition goes, the Emperor gave the order for Russ to take Magnus prisoner. Horus, knowing Magnus knew of his treachery, played to Russ' superstitious side and convinced him magnus was too dangerous to be left alive. Then, Russ tried to kill Magnus instead of return him to Terra, though Russ actually gave Magnus a chance to surrender, if you read either "A Thousand Sons" or "Prospero Burns" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2909146 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 As far as the current edition goes, the Emperor gave the order for Russ to take Magnus prisoner. Horus, knowing Magnus knew of his treachery, played to Russ' superstitious side and convinced him magnus was too dangerous to be left alive. Then, Russ tried to kill Magnus instead of return him to Terra, though Russ actually gave Magnus a chance to surrender, if you read either "A Thousand Sons" or "Prospero Burns" But Kasper was not under Magnus's influence though as the Primordial Annihilator confirmed at the end, all Russ did give this choice, unknowingly to chaos Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2909399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted October 26, 2011 Share Posted October 26, 2011 I don't know, I'm reading The Outcast Dead and from what I've read there Magnus "came" to Terra and broke Emperor's project after the Dropsite Massacre. Not sure how it fits Horus changing orders for Russ.... The traditional story has always been that the Emperor only told Russ to bring Magnus in, but that Horus told Russ to kill Magnus. Actually thats not the traditional story, thats the rebooted version, Originally Horus had no part in it. When was this rebooted? When they started the collected visions and the HH series, possibly as Far back as the index astartes articles. 2nd and 3rd edition times Russ was ordered to Prospero by the Emp alone/ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2909410 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain ChonkE Posted October 27, 2011 Share Posted October 27, 2011 Outcast Dead sheds alot of light on the surrounding background of the sacking of Prospero, but it doesnt specify if the Emperor told Russ to go out and break his One Eyed Son's spine. I am pretty sure sneaky Horus did that Wolf to Wolf :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2910077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJORNin83 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 This is stretching my memory back, but originally wasn't prospero sacked after the battle for terra in retaliation for joining sides with horus? Originally? Wow I'm so confused now. AFAIK, Magnus never joined sides with Horus. Russ went to bring Magnus back to Terra peacefully (one of the points of the Prospero Burns book, to show the calmer more dignified side of the Wolves). This was after Nikea and Magnus used the warp to try to warn the Emperor on Terra that Horus was a traitor. When Magnus didn't comply, that's when Russ sacked Prospero and the Thousand Sons. At least thats what I've gathered from the HH books. I don't remember Horus telling Russ anything in Prospero Burns, maybe it was during one of my 'half asleep while reading' spells and then don't remember what I just read :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2911845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabadin Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I meant originally as in the mid-90's when the only detailed information about the heresy was 2nd Ed Codex:Chaos and the odd WD articles, but those have been misplaced for a while now so I can't verify the fuzziness of my memory lol. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2915284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sazabi24 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 The thing that I'm confused by now is the chronology. False Gods puts Magnus's breaking through the webway pre-Istvaan III, while the Outcast Dead puts Magnus's breaking through post-Istvann. Why would Magnus ever bother to warn the Emperor after the dropsite massacre? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2915330 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus6 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Why would Magnus ever bother to warn the Emperor after the dropsite massacre? Take your pick; Magnus, in so many ways was the most complex of the Primarchs. He was nearly as wise as his father, certainly more curious and of all his brothers, I think he was the most content with what he had. Knowledge and the use of it was as important, if not more so, than where you found it. Redemption: "You see Father I am loyal." Arrogance: "I told you so; had you looked deeper into the abyss as I have, you would have known." Disdain: Oh Father, if you are so wise, then how can you look upon us as brother wages war against brother. Oh, thats right, you dont care." Altruism: "I know you will punish me for this, but I feel it is the right thing to do." Severus6 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2915346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 The thing that I'm confused by now is the chronology. False Gods puts Magnus's breaking through the webway pre-Istvaan III, while the Outcast Dead puts Magnus's breaking through post-Istvann. Why would Magnus ever bother to warn the Emperor after the dropsite massacre? I thought Istvan III was before the dropsite massacre... wasn't III the one where tehy whiped out the loyalist of their own legions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2915372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiff Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I thought Istvan III was before the dropsite massacre... wasn't III the one where tehy whiped out the loyalist of their own legions? I thought so also. III was when they used the life-eater virus bomb. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2915406 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJORNin83 Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Correct. Istvaan 3 is when Horus unleashes the virus bomb, and sadly the last time we hear of Loken and company :( Istvaan 5 is the drop site massacre Magnus warned the Emperor pre-3 I believe Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2915913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artein Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 BJORNin83, you should buy Garro audiobooks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2916175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The emperors chosen Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Correct. Istvaan 3 is when Horus unleashes the virus bomb, and sadly the last time we hear of Loken and company :rolleyes: Istvaan 5 is the drop site massacre Magnus warned the Emperor pre-3 I believe One of the last lines in Galaxy in Flames has some mention of the fleet hearing word from Magnus the Red. This takes place after the actual batle on Istvaan III, when they are preparing for the drop site massacre. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2916205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJORNin83 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 BJORNin83, you should buy Garro audiobooks. I've thought about it. I guess there's stuff in there I need to know? :-) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2916603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPetersson Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Why would Magnus ever bother to warn the Emperor after the dropsite massacre? My guess is that Graham McNeill screwed up and got his chronology wrong... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2916647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmagog Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 Because the warp is unreliable plus the Chaos powers were throwing a spanner in the works as well! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2916657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Ragnarok Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 From my knowledge of changes. Starting with oldest to newest. 1. The Emperor sent Russ to Prospero after he was warned about Horus. This was before the Emp. knew of the treachery but was still pissed due to the tearing the defenses ensuring chaos could not enter the palace due to Magnus's intrustion (HH artbooks Collected Visions) 2. Horus changes the order that Russ should bring Magnus back in chains to destroy every Tson in sight. The Emperor still didnt know Horus was a traitor. 3. "A thousand sons", The wolves were sent to Prospero, but no mention of Horus changing the orders. Everything is implied that the Emperor sent the wolves on a death mission (I think this is true, memory a little fuzzy). It is unclear during Magnus's intrusion if the Emperor already knew of the treachery 4. SPOILER for OUTCAST DEAD!!!!!!!---> Magnus warns the emperor but this is after the dropsite massacre so not only did Magnus break the psychic defenses but he was LATE!!! It is commented that Russ was sent to bring Magnus back in chains. But I also think it was implied/mentioned they were sent to destroy . There is a lot going on in this book so can't remember. This is the most divergent of the path we were on. And quite puzzling. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240813-magnus-russ-and-horus/#findComment-2916810 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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