Krewl's Deathwing does the Dutch GT

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I'm going to copy it. XD I might add some mods though, I'm not too fond of fullTH squads.. I like the dakkadakka from the storm bolters.

[krewl]

Feel free to either copy it as is or to modify it, but remember I have only 1 squad of full TH&SS, and thats the bullet soakers for belials command squad. I drop them so up close (Or they run up front) so that they take a lot of Ap2 when available, both because they are close and because if ignored they bring 25 TH attacks on the charge and things tend to die when that happens.

 

So although you can do what you like I'd advise you on keeping the "command" squad as I did them so they have the maximum potential of surviving the insane ammounts of firepower they will recieve. Several games they have taken all or the mayority of the enemy's firepower for a turn and still had guys left to tell the tale.

[ZeDude]

Hi krewl,

 

thanks for taking time to write your feedbacks.

I'm currently rolling a triwing list for friendly games and I plan to use a Deathwing in tournaments. DA is my 3rd army and I just love the minis and the overall look (my 1st Deathwing squad : http://i45.servimg.com/u/f45/15/75/09/09/deathw10.jpg). And winning with DA is a great challenge :lol:

 

So I have some questions on your list (which may have been answered 1,000 times on this forum => sorry) :

- on your troop squads you have only 2TH/SS, does it mean that you start with non invulnerable save ?

- You didn't take any Librarian, do you ignore psykers out here ? what if the disgusting double-Lash Of submission ?

- Did you use Death Wing assault with your bikes ? because I struggle to keep my bikes alive on turn 1 after turbo-boost during scout move...

 

thanks !

[aekold]

I think that I can answer your questions since I play the same list and know Krewl pretty wel:

 

1. The terminators without TH/SS still have their 5++ inv save. While it isn't something to be counted on, it can be very usefull.

2. I have toyed with a librarian in the list and while a unlimited range hood is nice, LD9 isn't. when I was using it, it only irritated my by failing horribly. The 145 points are better spend somewhere else.

3. You can't turboboost during your scout move. This is stated in the codex and since codex trumps rulebook -> no scout turboboost. Other than that, I only deathwing assault when I have the first turn and the opponent allows for it (IG, Wolf gunlines, etc). Against hordes (nids, orks) I deploy everything with a possible exception of the bikers which outflank.

[ZeDude]

Thanks aekold,

 

1. I don't understand why you have only 2TH/SS per squad, is it to add more firepower ?

2. I guess Ezkiel is the only choice then...

3. :)

[Chaplain Lucifer]

against most armies you need only 2 TH&SS to deflect ap1/ap2 weapons, that way you can ave 3 storm bolters giving you more firepower (usefull against hordes) , also allows you to have a chainfist upgrade.

[aekold]

Indeed for more firepower. Also usefull for wound allocation and the mentioned chainfist.

 

It also adds some flavour. An all TH/SS list is in my mind a little bit boring and bland.

[krewl]

Thanks aekold,

 

1. I don't understand why you have only 2TH/SS per squad, is it to add more firepower ?

2. I guess Ezkiel is the only choice then...

3. :)

 

Yup, I think Aekold and myself playtested pretty much through all the options that you can ad to a core of 5 x 5 termies and Belial. We ended up on the same army. :)

 

1. Regarding the 2 TH&SS, yes the other guys have a 5++, you can't count on it, but it's still a 1/3rd chance of saving something that would otherwise kill you.

Also you can stil get a cover save quite easily because your units are only 5 men. Also why only 2 3++ saves? I find that the far far mayority of times people shoot at you you have to take only 1 or 2 invulnerable saves in each run, which you allocate to the 3++ guys, others you save vs the 2+ normal save your termies have.

I also find that the 4 x 6 Stormbolter shots add up during the game versus a lot of armies, so this fits my preference balance wise between shooty, survivability and weapon variations. You will note that these units are build to be able to do just about everything be it cc, anti horde, anti tank and long range surpression.

 

2. Zeke would fit pretty well, limitless range Ld 10 hood really does come in handy, but I'd need to drop the biker squad I have. the Libby fits like a glove but the Ld 9 makes you stop only 24% if I recal correctly of psy power, unless you face GK with Ld 9 and 8 psy powers. Turns out that at the GT I could have easily taken a libby and use him each game, but each option you choose tpo add to the 5 x 5 termies core has their good and bad matchups and in the end you need to pick one. I choose the biker unit and 2 speeders for some speed, addedd missiles, anti tank and outflanking uses and it worked out reasonable. Though at the GT they where less usefull, lats weeks tournament they where matchwinning in 2 of the 3 games by taking out key tanks allowing my army to walk up unmolested.

 

3. Yes this is true, no turbo's for us DA. Please do recall that the DA codex DOES make the attack bike scoring even as a FA choice, using the same Codex > rulebook logic. So if they deny the turboboost to you you should be adamant about the scoring attck bike. They can't pick your choices to both be negative for you, just as you can't have both your ways. Ruleswise, this is the RAW correct way to play it. RAS Attack bikes are always separate scoring units of 1 2 wound bike with a Multimelta. Hope that makes up for the (lack of) boosting :D

 

As always, please feel free to ask more questions if you feel like it.

Deathwing based Dark Angels are by no means low on the power scale, so as long as we have this codex + the FAQ we are certainly avble to play top tables.

[DevianID]

I also run almost the same list as you for my deathwing, and have had decent success with it.

 

One issue, I know you like 5 thss on the command squad, but I drop the meltabombs from the bike with the fist to fit the 5th chainfist. Too many times has belial's command squad been tarpitted against a dread, despite the banner and proliferation of s8, that I consider a chainfist in each squad of termies mandatory.

 

I usually run 4 TH/SS 1 CF/SB, as all my termie squads (cyclones of course) and while I do miss the 4 extra stormbolters desperately at times, I find that without the 4 3++ saves the unit folds too easily after the first 1-2 models die.

 

You are absolutely correct that most of the time two 3++ saves in the unit is fine, but my issue is that if you fail them on the first volley, then the second volley decimates the unit since your 3++ are gone. Also, close combat doesnt allow cover, so that one hidden fist can wipe 5++ models pretty easy.

[krewl]

I ran into the downside this weekend, low model count means bad dice rolls eat you up.

I was down 14 termies end of T2 and was about to lose 2 units more and the bikers and speeder which had done nothing at all.

 

Low model count in suchs an elite army maks those turn realy hurt you. (While obviously you re normally dead hard to remove)

[DevianID]

Yeah, every time I play the army it comes down to that. I always say that if I could guarentee average rolls then the list would be fantastic. The way I see it:

 

If I roll above average on saves, it doesnt really help because with this list you dictate when and where you engage your enemy, thus you dont expose termies to something that they cant handle.

 

If you roll average, so long as your opponent isnt rolling crazy you will be fine.

 

If you roll below average, because of the low model count your losses are always crippling. I remember failing 3 of 7 saves in one turn on a termie unit, and that unit would have won the game via objectives with just 1 more model.

 

Likewise, failing 4 of 9 armor saves or 3 of 3 invuln saves on a termie unit, especially belials command squad, quickly ruins that units abilility to influence the game. I lost belials entire squad in 2 cc rounds to a lone SM captain with a bike and lightning claw (and I charged) one particularly bad day. The loss of the command squad, when they were right next to the heart of the enemy and his one cc model left (the captain) was already charged, cost the game there as well.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Krewl, against what army your DW faired so bad? is it usual vs that kind of army?

[krewl]

Grey Knights, and no I am normally able to handle them just fine (though they are a hard codex, so you'll need to work for your money ;) ), it's just one of those games where the dice hate you and there's nothing you can do about it. I must say this was one of the worse games ever though as not only did my shooting do nothing, I also failed saves, and dangerous terrain tests, and did not hit in cc, and did not hit tank rear armour OR hit with the kraks after that or the PF attacks after that. So really every bit of the game failed on dice there. Just a thing that happens in a dice based game

 

I did notice that I'll perhaps give Ezekiel a try in playtesting. Psy powers pop up quite a lot and that Ld 10 table wide hood would have come in handy in many a game. the painfull bit is as always, waht to drop to make room for him...

Having him could have helped versus the GK obviously.

 

Thinking off:

Belial

Ezekiel

1 x 5x TH&SS+Apoth

4 x 2x TH&SS, CML/PF/SB,Sarge,CF/SB

3 x Speeder typhoon/MM

 

Sadly had to drop the banner, but still a solid list I think. I always find that the DA codex is so hard to place points in, mainly because of the inflexibility in units and options.

[Tanhausen]

Late but still... congrats on the results!

 

The banner, IME, is a nice "hmmm, 25 points laying around..hmmmm". You usually don't need those extra attacks.

 

I'm also surprised you did well vs GK. Not because of your skill (well, that also :lol:) but because I really don't know how to handle a fight that seems lost to me.

 

10 terminators, 2 psy cannons, 6 halberds (typical GK unit in my area).

 

2 x 5 2 TH/SS DW units

 

We are both killing pretty much at the same rate... the main difference being they hit at Ini 6 and we have 4x3++ models...

 

Thanks for the reports!

[riddles]

Yup, I think Aekold and myself playtested pretty much through all the options that you can ad to a core of 5 x 5 termies and Belial. We ended up on the same army. :)

 

Funnily enough, I've come to the same conclusion playtesting for an 1850 tournament in January. Used to take bikes over typhoons always, but 1 squad is enough.

 

also, hi aekold! i'm eric from warseer.