Anyone have experience running a lone TWC?

[TiguriusX]

I am thinking up a list that uses a single TWC with a TH or PF and a SS. Essentially gives me a TWC mounted WGBL for far less points.

 

I plan on running two units like this as counter assault units running behind 3 full strength GHs in transports (wielded like a scalpel not a kamikaze sledgehammer / death star)

 

Has anyone tried something similar? If so what have you learned?

 

If nobody has tried this you can still chime in with potential issues I may not have planned for.

[Wulfebane]

For the points, unless you're hurting for an elite slot, I think a Lone Wolf is priced better.

 

A LW in TDA with TH/SS and two fen. wolves as ablative wounds is cheaper than what you've built for your TWC. Admittedly, it can't keep up with the pace of a rhino, but the special rules make up for it.

 

Regardless, they're near enough the same points that it's easily a tactics/preference call. My normal list usually has a LW/WG/Scout pack for my elite slots, so I'm often looking for a way to run a dread or 2nd scout pack. This may give me a reason to bench my LW for a bit once my TWC conversion is finished.

 

It does sound like a cool idea, but if I were to put 2+ TWC on the table, I'd probably run them together to spread any potential wounds from a stray bolter round.

[Scyld Fireblade]

I have tried this actually. Only I run Fenrisian wolves and footslogging GHs and BCs. I prefer running whole packs of TWC, but lone one can be very effective. I once ran a TWC just as you described against a BA force. He cut down 5 Assault marines and a Sanguinary priest in turn 2, 3 devastators in turn 3, and a valkarie in turn 5. I also fielded him against necrons. He smashed 2 monoliths and 3 destroyers.

[elithren]

Running the TWC as one man squads can be effective, based on my experience. Got bored of lone wolves and ran 2 TWC, one with TH and SS and the other with FB and SS, as well as my wolf lord on TW. I was pretty happy with their performance as the TH/SS wolf ate two dreads and the the FB/SS had some fun with the wolf lord cleaning up the containts of rhinos. As to their survivability, the LW can live longer, but can't dish out the damage a TWC can. The trick is to have lots of targets for the enemy so they dont get focus fired.

[littlbitz]

I ran one for quite some time to great effect in support of a large foot slogging Grey Hunters pack, or as a follow up to my bikes.

 

I equipped mine with a Storm Shield and a Frost blade though.

[Dahli Llama]

Running a single TWC with a power fist is a decent option. It's definitely better than a WGBL with power-fist, as there you're wasting the I5.

 

That said, I've never seen them used to great effect. I've tried that tactic in my Loganwing army as a method of tank hunting and counter assault, but they really don't have enough attacks to be truly powerful. I much prefer a WGBL with a Wolf Claw and a Shield as a counter assault unit (5 attacks on the charge can really do significant damage). If you're running TWC, then having 1 with a powerfist and a couple standard ones is going to be a lot more effective than just a lone one with a powerfist.

[TiguriusX]

It sounds like a single TWC is viable but requires care.

 

The rest of this list I am brainstorming has no PF/TH so I was trying to add it via the TWC.

 

For those who used the TH/PF...how often did the TWC die before he ever got to swing? I think that is my last concern before giving this project the green light

[Scyld Fireblade]

For those who used the TH/PF...how often did the TWC die before he ever got to swing? I think that is my last concern before giving this project the green light

 

Mine has never died before killing at least his first target. No one is willing to neglect hitting the rest of my force. You really need to bury him in ordanence for him to go down.

[Scyld Fireblade]

That said, I've never seen them used to great effect. I've tried that tactic in my Loganwing army as a method of tank hunting and counter assault, but they really don't have enough attacks to be truly powerful. I much prefer a WGBL with a Wolf Claw and a Shield as a counter assault unit (5 attacks on the charge can really do significant damage). If you're running TWC, then having 1 with a powerfist and a couple standard ones is going to be a lot more effective than just a lone one with a powerfist.

 

Not sure what you mean by TWC not having enough attacks. A lone TWC gets 4 base attacks with 5 on the charge. That is the same as your WGBL. Plus even if your WGBL is only given the Claw and Shield, the TWC with SS and TH will be 10 points cheaper, far more mobile, T5 so no ML or PF instant death, and he will be able to destroy any vehicle (well a titan might be tricky).

 

Always give him a SS to deal with the occassional melta, lascannon, and other such weapons.

[Wysten]

I think the only problem the humble Lone Thunderwolf has is that it competes for slots with the Landspeeder, possibly the next best unit we have aside from the Long Fangs and Grey Hunters and Rune Priests. Probably equal with wolf scouts.

 

Being able to supply 4 powerfists on a fast moving, tough body is pretty sweet supportive option. Easpically on a list which can give them other things to worry about, wolf scouts at back, Long Fangs forward and Grey Hunter and Thunder Wolf right in the middle. Just the more you take of this one thunderwolf, the more reliable it is.

 

That being said, if theres enough shooting going around, a wolf claw or something could be grand. Just I believe theres enough Inti 4 in the army as it is really. Fists and hammers are for stuff that wanna kill.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

I haven't tried it yet but I've heard good things about single Thunder Wolves with a wolf claw. At 70 points they're cheap, they have toughness 5 and 2 wounds so they have some durability, and the wolf claw allows re-rolls to compensate for their average WS. Throwing a storm shield on them adds durability but also cost.

 

That said, the thunder hammer or power fist allows them to deal with a wider range of targets, and since you'd have to take meltabombs to deal with armour if you chose the claw the power fist is the same cost as the claw. Strength 10 is enough to deal with armour.

[nurglez]

I played vs an army using 2 lone twc with hammers and shields, I was using Draigo wing. They both charged a wounded Draigo and finished him off, I then killed 1 while the other killed 4 wounded paladins in 1 assault (would have instant killed them anyway...).

 

I think if you already have a lot of targets, adding in a few more can really help. They have the option of speed, and can threaten any unit. 3++ can get very lucky at times too.

[Dahli Llama]

That said, I've never seen them used to great effect. I've tried that tactic in my Loganwing army as a method of tank hunting and counter assault, but they really don't have enough attacks to be truly powerful. I much prefer a WGBL with a Wolf Claw and a Shield as a counter assault unit (5 attacks on the charge can really do significant damage). If you're running TWC, then having 1 with a powerfist and a couple standard ones is going to be a lot more effective than just a lone one with a powerfist.

 

Not sure what you mean by TWC not having enough attacks. A lone TWC gets 4 base attacks with 5 on the charge. That is the same as your WGBL. Plus even if your WGBL is only given the Claw and Shield, the TWC with SS and TH will be 10 points cheaper, far more mobile, T5 so no ML or PF instant death, and he will be able to destroy any vehicle (well a titan might be tricky).

 

Always give him a SS to deal with the occassional melta, lascannon, and other such weapons.

 

I thought TWC only had 3 attacks base, but I don't have my codex handy to check.

 

The WGBL on a Thunderwolf (I didn't clarify that) was primarily for the I5. I would never give a Wolf Lord or BL a Powerfist or Thunderhammer, since that negates a big reason why they are so powerful (and expensive).

 

As for the TWC with a powerfist, just be careful what you attack. My group has two guys that play Lightning Claw Terminators (Black Templar and Dark Angels). They will rip through my TWC before they even get to attack. Hence my preference for the WGBL with Wolf Claw.

[Hazkal]

I'm also thinking something similar (still haven't played though) with only PF and running them behind Land Raiders. Enemy doesn't need heavy fire to bring lone model with 3+ save down, so I think it's a bit too expensive for my taste (although, I run twin land raiders, so enemies use most of their heavy fire on them).

 

It seems to me that Lone TWC needs to stay behind first line, where it can launch counter attacks and stay in cover/out of LOS to provide counterattack or to survive the first turns before assault on enemy tanks. That way, they don't seem that much of a threat and cost a lot less (if you're running 2, that's... 60pts? less. Not sure, I don't have codex with me at this time).

 

but like I said, haven't tried them yet, so I might be on wrong tracks here :whoops:

[Max_Dammit]

Ill have to split my 1750 pt list in to a 750 and a 1000 pt list for a coming event, and i have 5 twm so ill be using a unit of 2 for the 750 or 2 of 1.

[TiguriusX]

Ill have to split my 1750 pt list in to a 750 and a 1000 pt list for a coming event, and i have 5 twm so ill be using a unit of 2 for the 750 or 2 of 1.

Would love to hear how it works out Max

[thor1234]

Rather than starting a new topic I thought I'd post here, (if tiguriusX doesn't mind) on the discusion of single Wolf Cavalry, I have been looking at experimenting with the WGBL on a wolf, power fist & Storm Shield combo with one major difference I've given him Saga of the Hunter....... thats right an outflanking Thunderwolf! 4-5 S10 attacks coming from my opponents flanks! how do my fellow wolves feel about this? at first I dismissed it out of hand mistakingly (is that even a word! :D ) thinking that you had to be on foot to take the saga, but after re-reading it, the entry does not prevent a character on a thunderwolf from taking it, so how do you feel this would impact a game? compared to the usual outflanking scouts? would an opponent be more worried? less worried? and more importantly would he make crucial mistaskes to try to deal with this threat?

[TiguriusX]

Rather than starting a new topic I thought I'd post here, (if tiguriusX doesn't mind) on the discusion of single Wolf Cavalry, I have been looking at experimenting with the WGBL on a wolf, power fist & Storm Shield combo with one major difference I've given him Saga of the Hunter....... thats right an outflanking Thunderwolf! 4-5 S10 attacks coming from my opponents flanks! how do my fellow wolves feel about this? at first I dismissed it out of hand mistakingly (is that even a word! :lol: ) thinking that you had to be on foot to take the saga, but after re-reading it, the entry does not prevent a character on a thunderwolf from taking it, so how do you feel this would impact a game? compared to the usual outflanking scouts? would an opponent be more worried? less worried? and more importantly would he make crucial mistaskes to try to deal with this threat?

 

I love discussing 40k so feel free to expand on the general topic.

 

Unfortunately you can't use Saga of the Hunter on a TWC

 

There are 2 sets of rules to follow. The first is the entry for the WGBL himself. The second is the rule on p.64 for Saga of the Hunter that says "infantry only"

 

If you use a TWM you are no longer infantry.

[Wysten]

On a slight off tangent, Iron Priests make a respectable Thunderwolf pack, though not a lone Thunderwolf in the strictest sense, since he needs Cyber Wolf body guards.

 

What he does offer for a total of 155 points is;

 

5 Toughness 5 wounds, 4 at 4+ and one at 2+

 

two less hammer attacks (T_T) but 12 normal attacks (minis rending though.) Possible buy of tooth necklice for +3 to hit for another 10 points

 

I imagine he would only be taken if the fast slot was filled, otherwise 130 point of 2 thunderwolf may be a better buy, just simply because it carrys more hammer attacks. Also possible to budget by striking off some of the abbrsive wounds. Though two cyber wolf at least is nessiary, since your essencally trading lone wolf's raw suvivability for high moiblity.

[thor1234]

thank you for spotting that tigurius ! :-D though it doesnt say anything in h WGBL entry it does state it in tye main rules for the saga, while on your subject of the single thunderwolf i can say that as ive been fielding my BL alone he is slas youve said just a more expensive thunderwolf i have had some good resaults with him (before he forgot he cant outflank!!!) though i did find that a few bad saves meant that he died quickly if you can us him like a scapal rather than a bulldozer then he works really well and for 70 odd points less which is how much the character costs to begin with then thats almost 5 gh to add to your list! well worth the saving!! ill be using one based on how well my battle leader performs just remember to scalpal not buldozer and hell do fine

[Freman Bloodglaive]

A battle leader with frost blade, storm shield, and thunderwolf mount costs 170 points. A comparable single thunderwolf costs 105 points. For an additional 80 points you can have another thunderwolf with storm shield in the squad.

 

I'd suggest that a wolf tooth necklace and runic armour should be required equipment for the battle leader, just because it makes him more killy and improves his survivability against massed attacks. That's 200 points.

 

For myself, single thunderwolves are cool, but I'd try to get them in pairs at the very least.

[Wysten]

Aye, the issue with the leaders are that they are really expensive for their points in compersion to your more humble thunderwolf. Dispite this being a codex of Heros, the codex premotes a constant pack mentality throughout, constantly premoting more then one. So while our leaders are not cost efficent, smaller units doing a simlar role typically is. Small or singlar packs of Thunderwolf tend to do this pretty well.

 

Battle Leaders don't do enough for their points worth, Wolf Lords more so, though they make up for it in being completely unignorable tanks in a few select combinations.