tanithscout Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Was I the only person distracted by the sheer number of mistakes in this book? I always expect a few spelling mistakes or missing or incorrect words in the novels but this one seemed excessive. Maybe I just became sensitive to it when the 'Golovka' listed in the dramatis personae immediately changed his identity to 'Golovko', just like 'Asubha' sometimes became 'Ashuba'. Anyway, I enjoyed the story and thought it was a good addition to the series... it was just disappointing to have the flow periodically disrupted by glaring mistakes. Oh, and what was with the unarmoured WE punching through the chest of the armoured Custodian? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2924240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 It'd be good if Severian turned up in another book or he had a nice short story if they release another anthology. I enjoyed the book, it was a good read but I thought in some places it drifted away from the point or began to go round in circles. It was good for Bhabu to be in so we can see what a TW was like (not any TW aswell but a famous one) and how he was afflicated (once the Big E no longer had need for them) with cancerous growths all over. I'll add to this post when I can think of more to put! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2924266 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge The Weak Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I think he will turn up again! No point leaving it to lie. Maybe in a short story ? Or some special edt version? Also maybe im wrong. its a bit late and I read the book in one sitting... but I think I spotted a blunder. Early in the book it talks about people defacing statues of the original traitor legions, (EC, WE, LW, DG) but im sure theres a reference to people smashing up a Iron warrior statue or painting as well, before the events of Isvtain... Il recheck this tomorrow to indulge myself! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2924923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Jaysus. This book is taking forever for something interesting to happen. I'm at chapter seven and nothing has happened apart from lengthy descriptions of everything. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2925231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Jaysus. This book is taking forever for something interesting to happen. I'm at chapter seven and nothing has happened apart from lengthy descriptions of everything. agree here. it took me until around page 130 for me to get really insterested. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2925447 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liliedhe Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 It'd be good if Severian turned up in another book or he had a nice short story if they release another anthology. There's been a hint on Mr. McNeill's facebook that this will be his next audio book... Nagasena vs. the Wolf. *g* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2925451 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 I think he will turn up again! No point leaving it to lie. Maybe in a short story ? Or some special edt version? Also maybe im wrong. its a bit late and I read the book in one sitting... but I think I spotted a blunder. Early in the book it talks about people defacing statues of the original traitor legions, (EC, WE, LW, DG) but im sure theres a reference to people smashing up a Iron warrior statue or painting as well, before the events of Isvtain... Il recheck this tomorrow to indulge myself! I think thats right near the start of the book, the mural thats get vandalised and the Iron Warrior has his face cut out? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2925454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purge The Weak Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Doesn't really make sense since they don't turn traitor till after? and doesn't mention anything towards the actual loyal legions either! Oh well! And I always seem to spot a spelling or grammer mistake in these books. Believe there was a 'be' instead of it saying 'he' at some point near the start. Hah not important anyhow! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2925942 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain ChonkE Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Yeah, the pacing at the start is horrid. It drags and drags. Once you get to the Dead part, it flies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2927469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-chaplain Astador Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I thought some of the early warriors who were converted into 'almsot astartes' (some of those who were too old and not risked with gene seed) were the thunder warriors? Or warriors that fought during the unification. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2927718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I've reached chapter twenty and there are a lot of typos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2928223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
xa0s Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I dislike going "who's stronger; who kicked ass; and all that jive." However I would say it is a good book, because I finished it in two days. I was particularly engrossed into it that I was a bit cranky with my wife when she needed something from me at that moment. That, alone, says it all. Other than that, I think I'm gonna go for 2nd reading to re-analyze it unless if I wanna go with Nocturne. We'll see. BTW, I think that "mystery" incident of what scared Gotha, Babu's goon, off the first time he went to the Temple of Woe is still that: a mystery. I'll have to re-read Sev's and Optimus Prime the Moderati (forgot his nick at the moment but not his avatar)'s posts and see what they came up with who made the humans exuded in an extremely cold environment as they were pleading to the Big E to spare their lives. EDIT: Optimus Prime = Capt Idaho Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2928411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
senbi575 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I really enjoyed the first part of the book and the background information given on the culture and populace of Terra. It was great to see that even in the most enlightened and bright part of Imperial history, there still is problems with poverty, gangs and crime. The second act, while action pact was very disappointing and was filled with a lot of inconsistencies that really ruined what could have been a great book. The first problem I had was with the Custodians. I am not trying to get into a who-is- tougher- than-who contest, but the way there were stomped left a bad taste in my mouth. I thought the way the Custodians were portrayed in FH was spot on (individually they are by far superior to a Space Marine, but as a unit they are weak) and went totally out the window, I know that the WE are tough, but rip out a Custodian’s spine and then have another Custodian killed at the end so easily? The second problem I had was the lack of subplot development. The first occurred with the Outcast Dead, why they were incarcerated and why Atharva picked only a few of them to escape with him? The second occurred with the discussion with what to do with Kai, it almost seemed like the WE wanted to take him to Horus, but Atharva dissented, and then 100 pages later you find out that they agreed to take him off world? The last being how the statue daemon was released after Atharva ridded himself of this psychic abilities. Was he holding the daemon back or was his act a conduit for the daemon to use? The conversation with Kai and the Emperor was good, and it gave a real feeling of tragedy and sacrifice to the Heresy, both on Kai and the Emperor’s part. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2928514 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don the Oiler Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I always wondered when the old "terran- vs homeworld- astartes" conflict would be picked up again, but now it seems it has shifted to a "thunder warriors vs astartes" conflict. Which is fine by me, i always wanted to know more about the TW and can't wait so read what happens (and happened) to Arik and Ghota. At the end of the Unification Wars, were they all sent into a final battle they could not possibly survive, or methodically obliterated? Maybe the whole redundancy idea was just Arik's personal interpretation. Personally i agree they were probably deemed too violent and independent to be allowed to be produced in great masses for fear of what they'd do once there's no alien enemy left. Up till now i always thought the first Terran Astartes (Garro, Astelan, Qruze and pals)were involved in the last Unity Battles as well, but those couldn't have been much more than cleanups the way events are described now. Another thing, maybe i'm misinterpreting Collected Visions, but shouldn't the Silent Sisterhood, the Custodes and the Emperor be fighting a major warp breach and demon incursion following Magnus' "visit"? I thought this should at least have been mentioned with a word or two in the book, but it couldn't have been so bad if the Emperor still finds time to play chess with an astropath. Just my two cents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2928663 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 The last being how the statue daemon was released after Atharva ridded himself of this psychic abilities. Was he holding the daemon back or was his act a conduit for the daemon to use? I understood it to be Atharva making a sacrifice (his psychic ability) to empower the demon to fully enter the real world. I didn't think the opening was slow at all - except maybe the early parts with Roxanna and the Church of Woe but that was necessary to prevent it being a deus ex machina later on. I think both astropaths and navigators are underused in 40k fiction so I was more than happy to spend a couple of hundred pages exploring what they do. A quick recap on who the Crusader Host were and why they were there would have been a good use of the time though. I'm sure they were mentioned in an earlier book but I just have a vague recollection of them being a ceremonial detachment of astartes from each legion. Established after Ullanor maybe, or even earlier? I'm glad the series took the time to explore what Terra was like before the siege, this was a good contrast with the circles Kasper Hawser moved in in Prospero Burns. The prison warders did seem a bit lax. They had a last resort mechanism that could drop the cells into the bowels of the earth but had nobody standing by the button to activate it when it was needed. ;) That's less annoying than the absence of a proof-reading though. I'm used to a couple of typos in each Black Library novel but there were plenty more here, and the first paragraphs of some of the later chapters were misaligned. That's just sloppy. A solid 7/10 overall though, with the Emperor nudging it towards an 8. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2928670 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 The prison warders did seem a bit lax. They had a last resort mechanism that could drop the cells into the bowels of the earth but had nobody standing by the button to activate it when it was needed. :down: That's less annoying than the absence of a proof-reading though. I'm used to a couple of typos in each Black Library novel but there were plenty more here, and the first paragraphs of some of the later chapters were misaligned. That's just sloppy. I'm still trying to work out how an astartes with just his bare fists bests a custodian in full battle plate and guardian spear. And yes, as I mentioned earlier - there are loads of spelling and grammatical errors in the book. Not to mention half the book being off centre and misaligned as you point out. Ho hum. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2929096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Why do navigators seemed to get sexually assaulted alot. Octavia in Soul Hunter. This chick. Actually there's just been alot of sexual assault in 40k literature recently. I'm not looking forward to the newest Ghosts novel: Hellprison of Slaanesh Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2929202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain ChonkE Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Custodes were never meant to be unbeatable by Astartes and it is reasonable by the Rogue Trader statlines that a Veteran or Heroic status Marine would be able to take a Custodes. Even if the Marine is unarmored. The Custodes was also not fully cleared for front-line combat duty as his reflexes were too slow from a dead nerve. In the corner muscle of his face. Marines are tough enough to wound Custodes but it is likely that a baseline Custodes will beat a baseline Marine by statline alone but that does not mean the Custodes is unbeatable. What surprised me was the certainty Artharva showed in Tagore's ability to overcome the Custodes in his condition; in my mind World Eaters would be the ultimate duellists but Custodes are no joke. Still I think people take the fluff a little too literally about the power of Custodes. Only the Emperor is that powerful and he is... asleep. Yeah. edit: And I know my 2 wound Rogue Trader burned through some Custodes that tried to bring funk sometime back in the mid 90's. They got the Digital Lascanon Ring to the face or something like that. Never stood a chance! So I know it is possible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2929745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 While it's understandable that its the only set of rules we have for Custodes, the RT era is largely outdated these days and not that good for comparisons - Inquisitors had similar profiles to the Custodes back then and so on. @senbi575: IIRC Aquilion, Vendatha and co' from the FH novel were quite exceptional by Custodian standards, rather than being indicative of average ability. It's possibly not a fair indicator to go by them as what to expect from every Custodian in a fight. That reminds me, I should ask ADB more about that some time... ...Still the way y'all describe the fight does raise an eyebrow. Can't wait to get a hold of the book now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2930654 Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronKobra Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I really liked this book. Despite the large amount of spelling/grammar mistakes that slipped through the editorial process :huh: Some nice little bits in Kai's vision of the siege and aboard the Vengful Spirit. Looks like they will be bringing back the fluff about Sanguinius causing the break in Horus' armour. Not sure what to make of the ending... Nice and dramatic but really unsure where they are going to go with it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2930661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I read and I extremely loved the Emperor parts, it really quashed those doubts that he let all happen with what he said to Kai. My Favourite part of that entire book was the last Regicide game, where the Emperor exposed his piece and Kai attempted to claim it only for the Emperor to block the move finishing on a stalemate. Sometimes the only victory is stopping your oponent from winning Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2930689 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Taylor Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The prison warders did seem a bit lax. They had a last resort mechanism that could drop the cells into the bowels of the earth but had nobody standing by the button to activate it when it was needed. :) Because it would be a very short book if that happened :) The way I see it is that the Custodes are warriors and not 100% happy to be stuck looking after a prison. Whilst they should have activated the mechanism to drop the island, their warrior pride took over and they wanted chance to best the Astartes (especially ones from a legion like the World Eaters). I'm still trying to work out how an astartes with just his bare fists bests a custodian in full battle plate and guardian spear. I imagine it's down to the fact that Astartes are capable of punching through armour, know the weak points of power armour and that World Eaters train unarmed and probably against more lethal sparing partners than other legions. Plus it's a cool scene to have in the book :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2930746 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I imagine it's down to the fact that Astartes are capable of punching through armour, know the weak points of power armour and that World Eaters train unarmed and probably against more lethal sparing partners than other legions. Plus it's a cool scene to have in the book :D It is claimed that they are capable of that but it shouldn't have even been a contest. Custodians are hyped up to be superior individual's over Astartes and the Custodian... he got demolished. I've always felt that ADB's description of Aquillon and Argel Tal in the sparing cages was a great example of their superiority in melee combat. Argel Tal would last about 10 - 20 seconds before he was disarmed by Aquillon without any real effort. And they were both armed! Tagore had just his fists against a Guardian Spear, I find it a little hard to accept. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2930806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I imagine it's down to the fact that Astartes are capable of punching through armour, know the weak points of power armour and that World Eaters train unarmed and probably against more lethal sparing partners than other legions. Plus it's a cool scene to have in the book :P It is claimed that they are capable of that but it shouldn't have even been a contest. Custodians are hyped up to be superior individual's over Astartes and the Custodian... he got demolished. I've always felt that ADB's description of Aquillon and Argel Tal in the sparing cages was a great example of their superiority in melee combat. Argel Tal would last about 10 - 20 seconds before he was disarmed by Aquillon without any real effort. And they were both armed! Tagore had just his fists against a Guardian Spear, I find it a little hard to accept. I think Aquillion, and the other Custodes assigned to the Word Bearers legion, were some of the best. of the best. of the best. of the best within the Custodes orginasation. That's why they were chosen to watch Lorgar. The one Tagore killed was perhaps not one of the best (at least he had suffered critical damage earlier in the Crusade). In the end that custodes (forgot his name) was not on Aquillion level. Far from I think. Besides he was taken completely by surprise and perhaps was under som kind of shock. So Tagore would get the upper hand in the opening of the fight, and be able to break the guardian spear. But I also think it was a bit over the top to have him dig right through the best armour in the Imperium, without breaking bone or anything. But then again I sat back thinking "wow what a badass... They should get him for the expendables 2". I think that was what Grahm MacNeil would achive and he was succesful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2930823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqatone Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Perhaps so, it's all personal preference really I suppose. I have just always been under the impression that the Custodes were the pinnacle of individual warriors even if one is carrying a limp. These are the emperors elite personal guard of a limited number. The bodyguard and of the most powerful man in the Galaxy and keepers of his Palace - surely that is enough to assume that they are without peer within the imperium when considering their role? Maybe it was just how it was written, I didn't particularly feel like Tagore was a bad ass. I just sat there thinking "what?". Like I have said, just personal preference. Please don't take me as one of those angsty people who can't accept certain things that occur. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/240972-spoilers-the-outcast-dead/page/4/#findComment-2930841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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