How to arm my new GKs

[breng77]

Anyone wish to revisit the 4 Incinerator Purgation squad in reference to Necron Scarabs. Double the instant death causing save ignoring wounds, could be a very useful unit to have to protect things like your dreads and other mech units. (Think counter charge unit without the close combat.)

 

 

Also, Venerable Dreads are pretty expensive and take away your options in Elite, if you're that keen on long-range anti-tank spam Coteaz has his monkeys ready to go as Troops

 

This is an opinion, but the list in question has finished in the top teir at 2 major GTs. (Top 8 at Nova Open, and Won the Battle For Salvation GT, though that was after swapping said purgation squad for a Land Raider Redeemer or 2) But I don't see a Dreadknight (who will run more points to be effective) as any more viable than a Purgation squad.

 

As for a disservice, it is really more of a disservice to any player to tell them that there is only one choice for each army (which in saying auto-take psydreads, is what you are doing.) I think the word sub par is not correct. Sub-optimal is more accurate, and realistically no one runs optimized armies, they run armies that are optimized to their skill set as a player (or at least they try to). There are plenty of situations where psyfledreads underperform, and I woudl much rather have 4 flamer templates (which actually kill marines better than hordes, or kill things like Death Cultists.)

[Drachnon]

I think that having 4 S6 AP4 flamers in a Rhino for 140 points is nothing to scoff at.

[Chengar Qordath]

I think that having 4 S6 AP4 flamers in a Rhino for 140 points is nothing to scoff at.

Yeah, as I recall the big complaint with Incinerator Purgation squads has never been that they lack in killiness or value-for-points, but rather that they fill a role plenty of other units in the codex can fill (anti-infantry) while competing for slots with the other HS units that aren't so easily replaced by other choices in the list.

[breng77]

Yeah, as I recall the big complaint with Incinerator Purgation squads has never been that they lack in killiness or value-for-points, but rather that they fill a role plenty of other units in the codex can fill (anti-infantry) while competing for slots with the other HS units that aren't so easily replaced by other choices in the list.

 

Ah but now they do fill a role (anti-swarm) that is not so readily filled. I'm not saying they are something that should be in every list, but just that I have seen lists where their inclusion is better than that of an additional dread.

[Joxer]

Hey peeps! First post on the forums.

 

Started GK about when they released. My first army. Im now pretty much a nerd for tactica etc. on- and offline.

 

Reason I registered to answer this post is how the purgators are such a needle in my eye. As someone who loves to math and theorize everything I have been wholly unable to play these except as a fun entry in my codex. This due to:

 

1- How specialized they are. Whether its 4 incinerators or 4 psycannons they only perform well in extremely specific scenarios.

Example: Orks. Flamers. Good times. Anything else shoots the incinerators down long before they become a threat.

Example 2: 4 psilencers vs daemons.

 

2- How non-unique their role is: 4 psycannons. Awesome if you can camp them inside high-save terrain. 'As soon as you move them you are down to 8 shots instead of 16. Move them out of cover and they die to pretty much any large blast marker around. Thing is, 8 shots are usually enough to blow pretty much everything off the board, only if you are trying to down AV14 is 16 required-ish. Thus, terminators (or paladins) are equal to the task even on the move. Not to mention the easy access you have to las/plas/melta on your transports.

 

4- How non-unique their weaponry is. As mentioned above, pretty much everything else in the army can do what they do. I personally do not feel that astral aim makes up for this, as I have never played a game where that would be particularely useful.

 

5- Their heavy support slot blocking you from taking stuff that either rival their role. Psyflenaughts are better in my opinion and if you dont think so I certainly think a vindicare is more than equal (different slot, but a point limitation argument).

 

 

TL;DR: 4 incinerators are great, in 10% of your games. Rest, not so much. This pisses me off, I want to play them, and I've tried, but I just can't justify it.

[Something Wycked]

Hey Joxer, welcome to the B&C! :) I'm also big on Tactica. Its why I play the game- solving tactical challenges.

 

Now, onto your points:

 

1) I would only call Purgators "specialized" if they were given Psilencers or Incinerators, and Psilencers are such a poor choice (only 24" range and Heavy, so no moving allowed...) Psycannons are fantastic against any target, and are therefore a fantastic generalist weapon choice.

 

2+3+4) The role is non-unique, sure, but their cost effectiveness is where they really shine.

 

For 8 Psycannon shots on the move you are required to spend:

450 points on Terminators

315 points on Paladins

280 points on Purifiers

180 points on Purgators

 

The argument can be made that both Purifiers and Purgators require a transport. Even if you apply the transport cost only to the Purgators, they are still the most efficient way to field Psycannons. If you purchase a transport for the Purifiers, Paladins become more efficient.

 

5) The slot, yes. Psyflemen are probably the most efficient-for-the-points anti-light armor in the game, not just the codex. If your local meta involves a lot of light vehicles, and your particular style of play meshes well with Psyflemen, then they are probably the better unit in the slot for you. If conditions are different in your local meta or in your personal list, then Psyflemen may not be the best choice for you.

 

As for the Vindicare, that's a very apples-to-oranges comparison- aside from the difference in slot, they're completely different in use; the Vindicare is your high value single target eliminator, whether that target is a character, a model with special gear in a squad, or a vehicle, while Purgators are more of a support unit bringing volume of fire.

[breng77]

TL;DR: 4 incinerators are great, in 10% of your games. Rest, not so much. This pisses me off, I want to play them, and I've tried, but I just can't justify it.

 

I disagree with them being useful in 10% of games. They just have a very specific use, and the idea that everyone other than orks will shoot them before they get close is not even true. If you are running multiple Psybacks, dreads, etc they are hardly the most immediate target priority. Again they are not the best/most optimal unit. But they do have uses, especially against things like scarabs, or even daemons (post deepstrike if they don't spread out enough.)

 

Third, never bring up psilencers, I would argue that these are the most useless gun in the game. Heavy weapon, so no moving and shooting, 24" range, strength of a storm bolter (which you have standard). Even against Daemons, psycannons are better. If I recall Psilencers are 6 shots that wound on a 4+, vs 4 shots that wound on a 2+ (or worst a 3+). SO a psilencer on average deals .67 wounds to daemons with 5+ saves, assuming they don't have fateweaver. A psycannon deals .74 wounds to the same type of unit. They so slightly better, add to that that you can move and fire, that you can rend (which matters VS Iron Hide Daemons), and to top it off with the fact that psycannons are better against every other army. Psilencers have no place in any serious list.