Battle Conclave make up.

[Jacinda]

Assume for this that we are only going to take death cultist and crusaders to make a 9 model conclave. How many of each do you usually take?

 

I go with 6 and 3 for now, but is seems I have made it past the point of wound saturation with 6 DCA. 5 and 4 would probably be better but since I only have 3 crusader models I have not tried it out yet. So how are your experiences going? Are 4 crusaders too many? Is 3 not enough?

[Something Wycked]

Assuming MEQ as opponents, 5 DCA on average will inflict 6-7 wounds on a charge, plenty for anything but Hammernators. :) I see a 50/50 mix between DCA and Crusaders as fairly optimal.

 

Though I'm not a SoB player, so I'm not sure how the overall army makeup affects this.

[Jacinda]

Assuming MEQ as opponents, 5 DCA on average will inflict 6-7 wounds on a charge, plenty for anything but Hammernators. :) I see a 50/50 mix between DCA and Crusaders as fairly optimal.

 

Though I'm not a SoB player, so I'm not sure how the overall army makeup affects this.

Jacobus adds +1 attacks and FNP, which is why you always see him with the conclave. Other wise, a priest or confessor will give rerolls to wound on the assualt. This is why I was asking about 9 model conclave because at least one other will join the squad in a rhino.

[Something Wycked]

Oh Jeebus, DCAs getting five attacks on the charge? You can get the same results I just mentioned with only four DCA in the unit then, and have five 3++'s to protect them. The math works out even better without the bonus attack and with the reroll; four DCA's rerolling wounds will get you about one additional wound on MEQ.

[*Furyou Miko]

We reroll to hit, not to wound. They're Chaplains, not Lightning-claw dispensers. B)

 

Personally I've only ever used the models I've got (two Crusaders, one penitent counts-as-Arco and two dancers-count-as-DCA), but that seems to work pretty well with a confessor charging out of an Immolator... and the two Crusaders were sufficient to tie up a Dreadnought for three turns even in that small unit.

 

More models means you need more tanks, though. I've never tried Jacobus yet (hell, I use a custom inquisitor for my Confessor...) though.

[Inquisitor Fox]

To clarify: Kyrinov, Jacobus, Confessors and Priests ALL grant re-rolls to hit. In addition to this, Jacobus also bestows +1A and Feel No Pain to the unit he joins.

 

Jacobus is kind of a super-Confessor, however his wargear is set, and he cannot have a plasma gun or eviscerator like a normal Confessor.

[number6]

Personally, I think it's a mistake to take only DCAs, or only DCAs and Crusaders. I think you also must always include a couple of Banishers with eviscerators -- so you can deal with walkers in assault (that does happen!), not to mention cause reliably horrific wounds -- as well as Warriors with melta guns -- so you can deal with ANY target (including transports carrying things you want to assault ;) ).

[Fredegar Kadere]

Battle Conclaves only get access to Arcos, Death Cults, and Crusaders. The closest we get to the Banisher is joining up a confessor/priest with an eviscerator, which is way more expensive in comparison. Battle Sisters can usually handle the job of tank popping.

 

If facing off against opponents that generally have units with a single power weapon/fist in a squad then the three crusaders generally proves to be the sweet spot. It is when you are facing off against squads that field multiple power weapons that the benefit of the increased crusaders come into play. The "Deathstars", terminators, archons, etc that will usually survive beyond a round or two of assault will start to kill off those DCA's quickly without having the Crusaders there to shrug off wounds with the 3+.

[andrewm9]

I also go with 3 Crusaders and 6 Death Cult Assassins. Sure you get to a high level of wound saturation, but against some deathstar units with a special character, it often necessary. As you need 2 or 3 to devote to the special character with a stormshield or some equivalent and the rest go to the squad. The Crusaders are the only way to get a decent save in the squad in close combat unless you add a canoness to the squad which is a waste of an HQ IMO.

[Chengar Qordath]

I also go with 3 Crusaders and 6 Death Cult Assassins. Sure you get to a high level of wound saturation, but against some deathstar units with a special character, it often necessary. As you need 2 or 3 to devote to the special character with a stormshield or some equivalent and the rest go to the squad. The Crusaders are the only way to get a decent save in the squad in close combat unless you add a canoness to the squad which is a waste of an HQ IMO.

Not to mention that having a bit of insurance against the vagaries of the dice gods is always good. Just because 4-5 DCA will average 7-8 kills doesn't you'll always get that when you roll.

[andrewm9]

I also go with 3 Crusaders and 6 Death Cult Assassins. Sure you get to a high level of wound saturation, but against some deathstar units with a special character, it often necessary. As you need 2 or 3 to devote to the special character with a stormshield or some equivalent and the rest go to the squad. The Crusaders are the only way to get a decent save in the squad in close combat unless you add a canoness to the squad which is a waste of an HQ IMO.

Not to mention that having a bit of insurance against the vagaries of the dice gods is always good. Just because 4-5 DCA will average 7-8 kills doesn't you'll always get that when you roll.

 

I've been having good luck so far myself with them. MY DCA's crushed a Marine Terminator LIbrarian and 7 Assault Terminators before they got to go. They were all dead and Crusaders never even unsheathed their swords. Of course having 5 rerollable power weapon attacks each at S 4 certainly helps thanks to Jacobus who is the other must for at least 1 Battle Conclave. Accept no substitutes.

[thade]

Personally, I think it's a mistake to take only DCAs, or only DCAs and Crusaders. I think you also must always include a couple of Banishers with eviscerators -- so you can deal with walkers in assault (that does happen!), not to mention cause reliably horrific wounds -- as well as Warriors with melta guns -- so you can deal with ANY target (including transports carrying things you want to assault ^_^ ).

I'd like to echo this sentiment. S6 melee and melta shot when not mired: that's flexibility you want to have when you can, in addition to a few 3++ saves and DCA mulch machines.

 

I haven't yet run a goon squad but I frequently use Vanguard and - whatever configuration I run - if I mean for them to have staying presence in an assault I give them 1-2 storm shields. Why? Because typically they'll be engaging one or two units at a time, and one or both of those units will have a power fist. Figure with WS4/S2 a single power fist is likely to land one hit...maybe two if the controller has some hot dice. Those storm shields are there to soak up power fist attacks.

 

Keep in mind, the rest of my unit are marines with FNP (if I have an apothecary near enough) so it's not a big deal for them to weather some normal attacks: if you can get FNP in that unit, you're not that much worse off (with 4+, T3)...so 3 Crusaders isn't a bad hedge at all.

 

Just my feeling on the matter; again, this isn't a unit I've run myself.

[Jacinda]

Forgive me for not clarifying. This was a question for the Sisters of Battle. I knew GK could field them as well but I did not know all the extra options they had.

[IcedAnimals]

Yup we are talking battle conclaves, not inquisitorial henchmen. I personally have found 5/4 jacobus to be the best split. You kill 11 marines on the charge with just the DC. Which means when fighting thing like TH/SS you are killing about 4-5 models with your entire squad before our opponent has a chance to fight back. (including saders) And then 4 stormshields is usually enough to prevent any of the survivors attacks from getting your deathcult.

[*Furyou Miko]

>> I'm not sure putting a Canoness in a Battle Conclave is a waste, you know.

 

You'll get that Eviscerator in there, along with Preferred Enemy and I4. With a Confessor AND a Canoness in the unit, they'll be making Faith checks on a 3+. Add a Priest and you've got 2+ Faith... wait.

 

Battle Conclaves can't benefit from Acts of Faith, can they? ><

[andrewm9]

>> I'm not sure putting a Canoness in a Battle Conclave is a waste, you know.

 

You'll get that Eviscerator in there, along with Preferred Enemy and I4. With a Confessor AND a Canoness in the unit, they'll be making Faith checks on a 3+. Add a Priest and you've got 2+ Faith... wait.

 

Battle Conclaves can't benefit from Acts of Faith, can they? ><

 

No they can't benefit as they do not have the Acts of Faith Rule plus only the Confessor would add any bonus to the roll and not the Preacher. The Preacher is a waste of points in my opinion. He can't really even take any really good wargear. The Eviscerator is nice except you are wasting one of the few initiative 4 models in the army now. Not to mention paying a lot of points for 2 or 3 WS 3 attacks.