Aurelian Discussion

[Marshal Rohr]

If Legatus and McNeill were ever in the same room I'd imagine the police would be involved before long.

 

Similar to Ward walking into any LGS.

[Watch-commander Albus]

I thought fulgrim was probably one of the best HH books out there. In fact the reason why I thought so was because of how the fall to chaos was handled. You thought it was too fast? It was probably the longest HH book so far and GM made sure you knew exactly why they were susceptible to being turned. I also find it tragic that Fulgrim is basically no more... tough luck... sometimes it just goes bad... Ferrus Manus also died before we even had a good glimpse into his character. Thats the tragedy of the Horus Heresy and the point these books are so much more interesting than most 40K.

 

OK, I think I have to reread Fulgrim then. What you described wasn't what I carried away with after reading the book at all. I had the impression that the corruption of the Sons of Horus was slower and subtler.

 

I'm not saying I'm absolutely right... thats just how I felt when I read it. And keep in mind I had no idea how it was going to end up having not read Collected Visions until after Tales of Heresy.

 

And kudos for the way you responded. Most people just argue back why THEY are right and so on. Which is why we don't have A D-B on here anymore :-( I really do hope that if you re-read it, you will like the book a bit more. I've read them all so far including Promethean Sun and Aurelian and it definitely ranks right up there in my opinion.

 

 

PS What I was really talking about was Horus himself by the way. The corruption of the luna wolves/sons of horus was pretty subtle... but Horus was turned with one wound and one scene... and voila, came back corrupt. (obviously oversimplifying it a LOT) but with Fulgrim... that came slowly and from the deepest ambitions and insecurities of his heart. You can't even tell in that book where it really started to go wrong. I loved the fact that I was hoping for the best for these guys and that was even after they started doing weird things... then those things got even weirder and you went: "hmmmm" until there was slaughter and orgies and who knows what... Like the floor caving in beneath you. You still want to like these guys... but can't justify it even to yourself.

 

Kinda like the thousand sons for me... Much more likeable than the Space Wolves were in their own book... but once chaos starts weaving itself into your fates....

 

Yes, I had the same impression of the turning of Horus as with reading the Fulgrim book. I did not think that the corruption of the warmaster or the Emperor's Children was very convincing and went a bit too fast. Later on I read on these forums some posts that it was his pride that made Horus fall for Chaos. The fact that he was excluded from the visions of the future Imperium that Erebus showed him. I reread the passage after that and it made sense. It made the corruption of Horus just a bit more convincing.

 

All in all, I am trying to be careful when I give my opinion on the Horus Heresy books. Because I enjoyed almost all of them (except for Battle for the Abyss) and they never disappoint. There are just some things that are not very clear to me (possibly because English is not my first language and it could be that I miss some things) and questions that I have afterwards. I would not like to come down heavily on a series of books I like that much just because it went a tad bit too fast for me or it was a little bit unclear.

 

Anyhow, Aurelian was great. I am now patiently awaiting my copy of The Outcast Dead, so I have again something to look forward too.

[Zincite]

Here's something that some fans never really grasp. They have their interpretation of the lore, and assume it's The Lore. It's not. It's their interpretation.

 

People are so quick to say "My view is right" and never think twice. It's ridiculous. There's no debate. There's no exchange of ideas. There's snide, vicious one-upmanship that often entirely misses the point of a debate just to "win" with incorrect soundbites.

Damm. That actually touched something. At risk of sounding like I'm just nodding my head to disprove it, it's entirely right, and I've done it myself in several topics.

 

I thank you for that post. It made me think.

[Gunslinger87]

I thought fulgrim was probably one of the best HH books out there. In fact the reason why I thought so was because of how the fall to chaos was handled. You thought it was too fast? It was probably the longest HH book so far and GM made sure you knew exactly why they were susceptible to being turned. I also find it tragic that Fulgrim is basically no more... tough luck... sometimes it just goes bad... Ferrus Manus also died before we even had a good glimpse into his character. Thats the tragedy of the Horus Heresy and the point these books are so much more interesting than most 40K.

 

OK, I think I have to reread Fulgrim then. What you described wasn't what I carried away with after reading the book at all. I had the impression that the corruption of the Sons of Horus was slower and subtler.

 

I'm not saying I'm absolutely right... thats just how I felt when I read it. And keep in mind I had no idea how it was going to end up having not read Collected Visions until after Tales of Heresy.

 

And kudos for the way you responded. Most people just argue back why THEY are right and so on. Which is why we don't have A D-B on here anymore :-( I really do hope that if you re-read it, you will like the book a bit more. I've read them all so far including Promethean Sun and Aurelian and it definitely ranks right up there in my opinion.

 

 

PS What I was really talking about was Horus himself by the way. The corruption of the luna wolves/sons of horus was pretty subtle... but Horus was turned with one wound and one scene... and voila, came back corrupt. (obviously oversimplifying it a LOT) but with Fulgrim... that came slowly and from the deepest ambitions and insecurities of his heart. You can't even tell in that book where it really started to go wrong. I loved the fact that I was hoping for the best for these guys and that was even after they started doing weird things... then those things got even weirder and you went: "hmmmm" until there was slaughter and orgies and who knows what... Like the floor caving in beneath you. You still want to like these guys... but can't justify it even to yourself.

 

Kinda like the thousand sons for me... Much more likeable than the Space Wolves were in their own book... but once chaos starts weaving itself into your fates....

 

Yes, I had the same impression of the turning of Horus as with reading the Fulgrim book. I did not think that the corruption of the warmaster or the Emperor's Children was very convincing and went a bit too fast. Later on I read on these forums some posts that it was his pride that made Horus fall for Chaos. The fact that he was excluded from the visions of the future Imperium that Erebus showed him. I reread the passage after that and it made sense. It made the corruption of Horus just a bit more convincing.

 

All in all, I am trying to be careful when I give my opinion on the Horus Heresy books. Because I enjoyed almost all of them (except for Battle for the Abyss) and they never disappoint. There are just some things that are not very clear to me (possibly because English is not my first language and it could be that I miss some things) and questions that I have afterwards. I would not like to come down heavily on a series of books I like that much just because it went a tad bit too fast for me or it was a little bit unclear.

 

Anyhow, Aurelian was great. I am now patiently awaiting my copy of The Outcast Dead, so I have again something to look forward too.

 

Your English sounds completely fine... can't tell its not your native language at all. I think you'll find The Outcast Dead a great read... and no trouble with fact pace (in fact its probably one of the two I found to drag a litte bit a times, the other being Nemesis... but in the end it all made sense and I loved both) and a great insight into things you haven't seen before, while at the same time tying up a lot of the events that have already happened in the series.

 

I love when they drop in a small mention that you only get if you've read everything up to that point :-) good stuff.

 

But dont want to go too much off topic, so to tie it to what I've said until now. I think Aurelian is one of the best-paced stories in the HH series. Possibly only some of the short stories (but that's out of necessity) are as tight. Really goes from height to height. No wonder I finished it in one sitting.

[Guest mc wazzahamma]

Leaving aside the issue of the Bloodthirster (and FWIW I dont agree with the view that the lore is constantly open to fluctuating interpretation..... if you go down that path then things start to get very silly)....... as stated previously I felt the book started well but the fight scenes seemed more of an attempt to jazz up a book which due to 'ahem'.... constraints..... was very short. An attempt to throw in some action before reaching the 1230 word limit! This is my main gripe with the book..... a good start but superficial feel to it from then on.

 

IMO what has been lacking so far in the HH series is more about the relationships between the primarchs and between the primarchs and the emperor.

 

I understand that the emperor has an air of mystery to him but there is so much background to 4OK that I feel some snippets from the man himself would make gold reading material.

 

For £30 I demand excellence above and beyond what I can get from a regular £7 HH novel...... good ol fashioned value for money...... and in that IMO it failed.

 

If I go into a supermarket and see a lasagne priced at 4 x the amount of the others and 1/3 of the size....... it better be pretty damn special.

 

 

I see where you're coming from, and I absolutely agree. You are the customer. You deserve to feel that you've gotten what you paid for. Every penny.

 

Can I also ask if you have any creative pursuits? Drawing? Writing? Music? If you do, do you find yourself always working to the best of your ability no matter what? Because, it's your art. It's your integrity and your creative process.

In 99% of cases, I think the answer would be yes.

 

I'd say the same for ABD. I really doubt that he tailors his writing to a price list. From every post he's ever written, he's a man of deep artistic integrity, he cares and loves 40k and his own writing. I think it would be appalling for him to think "I will write a story worth £7 today no... wait... £7.50".

 

I would say that he always writes what he hopes will be a priceless story, and BL do what they will with it and charge what they will. I think it's a little unfair to say he would try to accomplish any less on anything he worked for. That says horrible things about his character which are just untrue.

 

Have you ever read a £30 story? I don't even know what that would look like. Amazon lists the complete works of William Shakespeare for a decent £19.

I don't think such a thing even exists. Booker Prize winning novelists don't even sell for that amount.

 

So what are you paying for? I don't go with this whole collectors buying thing, but I'd say what you're paying for is exclusivity. You paid for a limited copy, with a pretty little number printed on it and a cover made out of baby seal fur, encrusted with diamonds mined on the moon and bound with Kim Kardashian's hair (not saying from where on her body it came from). That's where your extra £23 went.

 

And as always, art is subjective. You might think Shakespeare was a hack. You might think Aurelian was rushed and superficial, though it seems the majority do find it "pretty damn special". I haven't read it myself, but even I can see from the various forums I visit that people are enjoying that lasagne you hate. You're completely right to find it not to your taste, but I don't know if attacking the chef is the right thing to do.

[Gunslinger87]

I'd say the same for ABD. I really doubt that he tailors his writing to a price list. From every post he's ever written, he's a man of deep artistic integrity, he cares and loves 40k and his own writing. I think it would be appalling for him to think "I will write a story worth £7 today no... wait... £7.50".

 

I don't know if you meant this to be funny, but I nearly fell from my chair while reading it :-D

 

Plus, you make some great points.

 

PS Stop replying to that guy, if we ignore him, he'll get bored... its like with small kids and attention. You tell them something they did was funny and they'll keep doing it into their teens and still think its funny. If A D-B didn't even reply to him, that one first post would be all.

 

Plus, I love that line A D-B used, that we all live under the illusion that every opinion is a good opinion :-D its about time people figured that out.

[A D-B]

And kudos for the way you responded. Most people just argue back why THEY are right and so on. Which is why we don't have A D-B on here anymore :-(

 

My forum withdrawal is almost entirely down to time, not douchery. It just happens that responses to douchery are often time-consuming, but they're not the worst offenders by far. (That would probably be canon debates, or explaining why Abaddon isn't a loser.)

 

I still log in, just about 5% as much. Must write more. Must get the house ready for the baby. Must do X, Y and Z.

[Billuriye]

(That would probably be canon debates, or explaining why Abaddon isn't a loser.)

 

Abaddon is not a loser ? Fudge my fluff.

[Captain Semper]

Well, if he's the Warmaster of Chaos for 10,000 years that makes him a winner on some level, right? :)

[Pulse]

Well, if he's the Warmaster of Chaos for 10,000 years that makes him a winner on some level, right? :)

Only because someone else hasn't arrived to take his place. The gods obviously love their little "fail boy" though, maybe its sentimental reasons, after all knowing someone for 10,000 years is enough for them to stick in your mind.

[Captain Semper]

Yes sure, he's still in the postion because of lack of applications and love!!! <_<

[Castiel]

<_< Aurelian anyone?

 

Edit: Isn't that a really annoying emoticon? :)

[mc warhammer]

I'd say the same for ABD. I really doubt that he tailors his writing to a price list. From every post he's ever written, he's a man of deep artistic integrity, he cares and loves 40k and his own writing. I think it would be appalling for him to think "I will write a story worth £7 today no... wait... £7.50".

 

I don't know if you meant this to be funny, but I nearly fell from my chair while reading it :-D

 

I did. Relieving to know I'm not just amusing myself.

[Gaz Taylor]

I read the book last night and I was a very happy bunny by the end of it. The book flowed at a nice pace and there were plenty of action bits as well as talkie bits. Thought Lorgar vs the Unbound was a cool fight and I really enjoyed the yes/no/maybe answers from the Daemons.

 

You can see why A D-B was invited to be part of the Heresy Circle as in my opinion he 'gets' 40K. Sure some people may not like his work (or get confused and rather discuss "my dad is bigger than your dad" for the fight scenes) but I think he's great. Plus I'm biased as I have a cat picture by A D-B to print out and add to my copy of Aurelian :)

[2000AD]

The cost doesn't really have anything to do with the story anyway.

 

 

Oh really??? So you'd have been happy paying a £1000, £10,000, £1000000 for the book eh?

 

Cost has everything to do with everything...... economics 101

[2000AD]

I see where you're coming from, and I absolutely agree. You are the customer. You deserve to feel that you've gotten what you paid for. Every penny.

 

Can I also ask if you have any creative pursuits? Drawing? Writing? Music? If you do, do you find yourself always working to the best of your ability no matter what? Because, it's your art. It's your integrity and your creative process.

In 99% of cases, I think the answer would be yes.

 

I'd say the same for ABD. I really doubt that he tailors his writing to a price list. From every post he's ever written, he's a man of deep artistic integrity, he cares and loves 40k and his own writing. I think it would be appalling for him to think "I will write a story worth £7 today no... wait... £7.50".

 

First up.....Kudos for leaving emotions at the door at trying to be objective....

 

BUT .....Youre missing the point entirely - I never said that ADB writes according to a price list, Im absolutely certain he doesnt. And this isnt an attack on ADB as a writer per se..... I loved his work on the Night Lords. I have been following WH40K fluff for a very long time.... I have a Slaves To Darkness book that due to a contact was in the first 100 off the printing press (or so I was told at the time).

 

BUT 2...... when you sign up to write a book that is priced as Aurelian was, whether you like it or not you become part of the problem...... getting in bed with the Devil so to speak. It is ADBs name on the front of the book so he gets the dose of buckshot.

 

Whether you like it or not..... I am the customer and I demand value for money...... as is my god given f£$%^&* right.

 

I look at a book like Fulgrim or Legion and to be frank they shiiit all over Aurelian....... with the added bonus of being 3 x as long and 1/4 of the price.

 

Thats value for money....... and I suspect if people took off the fanboy, rose tinted glasses for 1 second theyd see it too.

[Gunslinger87]

I see where you're coming from, and I absolutely agree. You are the customer. You deserve to feel that you've gotten what you paid for. Every penny.

 

Can I also ask if you have any creative pursuits? Drawing? Writing? Music? If you do, do you find yourself always working to the best of your ability no matter what? Because, it's your art. It's your integrity and your creative process.

In 99% of cases, I think the answer would be yes.

 

I'd say the same for ABD. I really doubt that he tailors his writing to a price list. From every post he's ever written, he's a man of deep artistic integrity, he cares and loves 40k and his own writing. I think it would be appalling for him to think "I will write a story worth £7 today no... wait... £7.50".

 

First up.....Kudos for leaving emotions at the door at trying to be objective....

 

BUT .....Youre missing the point entirely - I never said that ADB writes according to a price list, Im absolutely certain he doesnt. And this isnt an attack on ADB as a writer per se..... I loved his work on the Night Lords. I have been following WH40K fluff for a very long time.... I have a Slaves To Darkness book that due to a contact was in the first 100 off the printing press (or so I was told at the time).

 

BUT 2...... when you sign up to write a book that is priced as Aurelian was, whether you like it or not you become part of the problem...... getting in bed with the Devil so to speak. It is ADBs name on the front of the book so he gets the dose of buckshot.

 

Whether you like it or not..... I am the customer and I demand value for money...... as is my god given f£$%^&* right.

 

I look at a book like Fulgrim or Legion and to be frank they shiiit all over Aurelian....... with the added bonus of being 3 x as long and 1/4 of the price.

 

Thats value for money....... and I suspect if people took off the fanboy, rose tinted glasses for 1 second theyd see it too.

 

You are aware that you can probably sell your copy on ebay from anywhere from 50-120 pounds. Thats economics 101 for you. Its in demand for a higher price... Plus, if you're so unhappy you can just sell it and make a profit.

 

Geez... I get some of you're point but at this point it is becoming funny... unless you take it seriously that is...

[Lord Ragnarok]

Get the topic back on discussing the story in "Aurelian" Please.

There will not be another warning to request compliance.

[mc warhammer]

Edit:

Uh...just saw the moderator message. I've already spent some time typing this and I'm going to go with posting it. Apologies if this is the post that breaks the camel's back.

 

Hold on...let me try and get on topic...so, how did Aurelian beat the bloodthirster who's stronger than the other bloodthirster that beat Sanguinius but not beat Corax way after again? I mean, :blink:??? What is up with that ADB?

[Billuriye]

Hold on...let me try and get on topic...so, how did Aurelian beat the bloodthirster who's stronger than the other bloodthirster that beat Sanguinius but not beat Corax way after again? I mean, :P??? What is up with that ADB?

 

:)

[A D-B]

Hold on...let me try and get on topic...so, how did Aurelian beat the bloodthirster who's stronger than the other bloodthirster that beat Sanguinius but not beat Corax way after again? I mean, :P??? What is up with that ADB?

 

:)

 

I... I think it was a joke.

 

I think.

 

I pray.

[mc warhammer]

I was hoping for a giggle, rather than a prayer.

 

I'll take what I can get though.

[Castiel]

Hopefully "The Primarchs" will help to rectify this somewhat.

 

As for Aurelian, what do you think Lorgar wanted to speak with Magnus about, before agnus zapped him out of there?

[Lord Ragnarok]

Several off topic comments and posts removed.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Topic Closed due to more off topic commentary (also deleted)