Saiisil Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Ok, over on another forum someone asked what happens if a unit in a transport fails a moral test. I am not here to answer that question more to find out what people here have to say about the Trapped! rule. The rule says that if a unit can not make it's fallback in full, without doubling back it is destroyed. now my argument is that following the exact wording of the rule to the letter if a unit is unable to move at all it is unable to double back and does not qualify for the Trapped! destroyed result. There are a few arguments that I can think of one is something I saw someone say about this in a thread that looks like it is a few years old, that one is they aren't moving towards owning table edge, now FAQs make this one a falsity, BRB FAQ page 3 first question under Morale. The other is that the unit can not make it's full fallback distance, yet the for trapped itself has a qualifier on this of 'without doubling back' and that is exact wording. Thus here is the question, if a unit is unable to make any move or full distance yet isn't doubling back is it destroyed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 it sounds like intepretation for gain to me. simply put if you have to move 6" but can only move 4" before running into a dead end, you would be considered doubling back to move the extra 2". falling back movement is mandatory you cant just stay put in order to prevent yourself from doubling back. a more literal way of reading it is that if you cannot move your full distance in falling back then your trapped and destroyed edit: realised your talking about a unit in a transport, IMO they would disembark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiisil Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 Actually not talking about just in transports, I am including things like multi-level buildings and ruins in this. Generally in a multi-level it is 3" to move up or down a level, but if the roll isn't enough to move up or down but the unit is able to move without doubling back on that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 In that case it goes down as far as it can in 3" moves, and then moves backwards as far as it can horizontally. Ive never known someone to call them destroyed based on rolling a 5" run away move inside a ruin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 In that case it goes down as far as it can in 3" moves, and then moves backwards as far as it can horizontally. Ive never known someone to call them destroyed based on rolling a 5" run away move inside a ruin. Same here. You'd move the unit as far down as they can go, and if they don't make the 3", they hang out at the lip of the level until next turn. Just as units moving upward lose that 1-2" if they can't roll high enough on the Difficult Terrain test and still count as having moved, the Falling Back unit does as well. Extra distance insufficient to move bwteeen levels is lost. Think about the repercussions of your interpretation. Any multistory ruin would instantly become a deathtrap on any roll that isn't a multiple of 3", and when the models aren't exactly on the lip of the level. Would you ever put troopers in a ruin in that situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Doesn't the Trapped! have a caveat that they apply if the units movement is blocked by Impassible Terrain, Friendly or Enemy models? So problematic movement due to other factors wouldn't trigger the rule (strictly by RAW)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Just wondering, when does a unit inside a transport make a Morale check? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Just wondering, when does a unit inside a transport make a Morale check? There are remarkably few outlier cases where this happens, if memory serves. For instance, if the unit is four strong and one of the models dies from a Gets Hot! result, that's 25% losses and the squad needs to take a morale test. I seem to recall this coming up before and I thought we settled on the unit not having to disembark, but I can't remember the context or actual resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinyRhino Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Just wondering, when does a unit inside a transport make a Morale check? There are remarkably few outlier cases where this happens, if memory serves. For instance, if the unit is four strong and one of the models dies from a Gets Hot! result, that's 25% losses and the squad needs to take a morale test. I seem to recall this coming up before and I thought we settled on the unit not having to disembark, but I can't remember the context or actual resolution. I remember the debate as well, and that the status of being embarked was essentially diplomatic immunity from falling back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Sounds about what I recall as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 EDIT: I found one such thread (the one that rings in my memory) yet it offers no solution. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...0rhino&st=0 Still looking to see if there's anything else. Is there anything other than "Well, it's dumb" that prevents a unit from fleeing the safety of their transport due to a Gets Hot or Perils result gone wrong? I'm struggling to remember here, but if memory serves a Fall Back! move can't force them to Disembark as it doesn't say it can. I thiiiink that's how we settled on it before. Again, I still can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 Its not covered under RAW as far as I can tell, wich means a gentlemans agreement is needed *shrugs*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiisil Posted November 1, 2011 Author Share Posted November 1, 2011 Grey Mage is right, it isn't covered in RAW, as thade said the Gets Hot! rule can trigger it as can a unit embarking in their movement and losing 25% from Dangerous Terrain. The squad would embark before the Morale Test is taken. I personally believe that the most logical step in that case that the unit would disembark (involuntarily at that) but there are others that wouldn't agree to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 NOW I remember! They cannot Disembark in the Shooting phase...only in the Movement phase, so they're stuck in there when they fail from that silly Gets Hot! fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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