How to deal with the Necrontyr

[Reclusiarch Darius]

So, with a batrep out displaying some of the armies new tricks and abilities, not to mention the new units and characters, it might be time for us to start thinking of strategies to counter the Newcrons. Obviously, the codex has to be released before this can begin in earnest, but I think we've got enough to go on for some general principles;

 

HQ:

 

Both the special characters and generic Overlords/Lords are designed principally at support and ranged attacks. WS4 and BS4 is pretty meh next to our characters, so getting up close and personal seems like a good idea. Due to the Everliving (can always rez) and Rez rules (which state you roll for it at the end of the phase the model was removed in), Bro Champions and Crowe are going to be a bit more gimped, as 'Heroic Sacrifice' doesn't guarantee the Lord will be dead. It also means our force weapon ability, while still very good for one-shotting (especially as we go ahead of them in combat even without halberds), is not assured destruction either.

 

The Royal Court works essentially like a souped-up version of Wolf Guard, allowing you to field a small group of Lords and Crypteks to attach where needed. Again, statlines are as above, but it does raise the threat profile of the squads they're attached to, due to the various wargear they can take. Crypteks in particular can get pretty nasty with the Harbinger abilities, and again the emphasis is on ranged dakka.

 

Command Barge is an interesting concept. The twin tesla beamer gets removed, and instead you get a sweep attack in the Movement phase, and due to open-topped (I presume), the Lord can disembark and assault as well. It again emphasises the shooty support nature of the heroes.

 

Elites:

 

Lycheguard are going to be suitably lethal with warscythes, but the dispersion shields are going to be equally annoying. S5 T5 means we have to get 'Hammerhand' going, as inevitably some will self-repair the wounds we inflict. At range, their statline and 3+ armour is going to really tax our dakka, so I think some plasma cannons (Henchmen or Dreadnought mounted) will be helpful. Close-combat isn't as risky as against other races (I2 is a problem for them), but perhaps taking swords over halberds would be a good idea (we strike ahead of almost everything in the army, and 4+ invul against stuff like warscythes is handy).

 

Praetorians are jump infantry, and while they don't have the dispersion shield option, they're going to be a pain for us to shut down, due to having the exact same statline as Lycheguard. Most likely, we'll see them trying to flank our phalanx and attack weaker stuff like Strike squads or Purifier combat squads. Interceptors or a Dreadknight would be able to catch and destroy them.

 

Deathmarks are going to really screw with any Deepstriking plans we might have. Outflankers are also in trouble, as the Deathmarks will just appear next to them for some rapid-firing sniper rifle death. Not to mention their designate ability, which means they wound on a 2+ (in close-combat as well, lol).

 

C'Tan have been toned down, but they still have some crazy abilities. Will probably see one of these Shards, just for nostalgia more than anything else.

 

Flayed Ones are just bad, I'm sorry to say. They lost all their prior special rules, and now they just spam S4 attacks into people at I2. A Strike squad will probably be able to fend them off just with swords. They could tie up a PsyDread though, so positioning our fire support will be important. Otherwise, they're trash that will be a deadweight in the enemy army.

 

Troops:

 

Immortals look like they're going to be the mainstay, just due to a better statline, better guns etc. I'd imagine the gauss blaster can be swapped for the telsa carbine for free, and telsa carbines are going to be selected when fighting MeQ armies, due to AP4 on the blaster being meaningless. Due to their weakness in close-combat, I'd imagine a Cryptek or Lord being attached here to buff them.

 

Warriors...they are cheaper, but they're still no better than last time. I just don't know if Necron players are going to field them, now that Immortals can directly replace them for tough scoring infantry. As a side-note, Rez only occurs if there are surviving models (Everliving on the heroes overrides this, but only for the character), so Sweeping Advances or outright destruction from range will still cause permanent removal. Strike Knights will have no trouble cleaning up a Warrior squad in close-combat, and our other units only get more fearsome.

 

Ghost Ark looks pretty cool. AV13 front and side until we can cause a Pen, so I'd imagine we're going to need other options besides PsyDreads (who can do it, but they're needed for killing other things besides cheap Troop transports). Razorbacks with las/plas already work so well against their heavy infantry and Destroyers, so I can see them becoming even more useful at disabling that annoying quantum shielding early on. The D3 rez for a nearby Necron unit is very handy, and they grant the mobility Necrons badly need. I don't imagine they'll cost a heap, despite their size, so we should see 2-3 in most lists.

 

Fast Attack:

 

Scarabs should be suitably annoying, with their ability to degrade AV values and remove armour on our infantry (very nasty to pull this on Paladins or Terminators). I doubt they'll get a price hike, so expect to see them again.

 

Destroyers are now all in one slot, able to be upgraded to Heavy to have gauss lascannons essentially. I expect they'll spend most of the game trading fire with our PsyDreads and Razorbacks. Again, Interceptors or Dreadknight make a good counter for slicing them up quickly.

 

Annhilation Barge is one twin linked and another underslung tesla beamer. I expect you'll see a few of them, as their dakka is pretty good against infantry, and they don't care about cover or armour saves really.

 

Heavy Support:

 

Monolith cheaper, no longer unkillable (yay melta works again) and it's portal can bring in dudes and sucks ours into a black hole. Probably see one, due to the other big choice...

 

Doomsday Ark is pretty hilarious. Autocannon ordnance blast if moving (which it won't), and a lascannon ordnance blast with railgun range if stationary. I really don't see any other choice being fielded in Heavy. Three of these will utterly annhilate Draigowing, and our Terminator blob is also going to die horribly (even with Shrouding up). Add in the quantum shielding found on all Necron vehicles, and these things are going to really dominate the battlefield.

 

Overall, I'm seeing an army mostly geared towards shooting things a lot, with a handful of disruption units or close-combat rocks to balance it out. Getting into a shooting war is definitely not in our favour, we need to get in combat ASAP and leverage our power weapons. Remember, rear AV gets hit in combat, and if we Sweeping Advance an infantry unit, they don't get Rez.

 

Some good unit choices I see in a Necron match;

 

- Grandmaster: Slaps down their heroes with ease, 3+ invul in combat from default sword prevents their close-combat units easily killing him, and his nade options are fantastic.

- Librarian: 'Shrouding' is essential to keeping the Doomsday blasts from wiping out the army, 'Sanctuary' lets us get a few more kills in before those assault units hit, 'Might' is needed to kill the T5 units reliably in combat. 'Warp Rift' is amazing against Necrons, as most things are I2 and he has no psychic shutdown abilities (Pariahs are gone). Stave will keep him in the fight for a while if engaged in close-combat.

- Coteaz: Cheap Razorspam is fantastic, as is cheap massed plasma gun for downing his heavy infantry. 'Fortitude' is the best counter to his gauss

- Strike Knights w/Razor: Cheapest amount of bodies we can field in power armour, and their 'Warp Quake' will keep Deathmarks away.

- Vindicare: Blowing the head off a Cryptek or wearing down one of the Lords is great, and he'll blow up a vehicle each turn with turbo-penetrator.

- Purifiers: Cheaper than Terminators, hit just as hard in close-combat, 'Cleansing Flame' is great against Warriors but meh against the heavier units. Massed incinerator against Warriors is amazing, and will even cause a few casualties on the heavier units (being S6 and auto-hits). Definitely gear for close-combat and give them a Rhino, we'll have enough psycannon elsewhere. Outflanking with 'TGS' is ideal, the Deathmarks will wreck their ride but you'll kill them moments later so it's a good trade.

- PsyDreads: 'Fortitude' is going to shut down so much gauss fire, and S8 dakka is ideal for breaking quantum shielding with focus fire. You'll need lascannon from Razors to help though, otherwise they will be overwhelmed

- Dreadknight: I'd take at least one and use his teleporter to get up a flank and kill the Doomsday Arks quickly. His 2+ armour is great against Necron massed fire, the only things that will kill him quickly are Heavy Destroyers and maybe Praetorians (his greatsword is going to kill a few though).

[thecapn226]

Shoot them with psycannons and then assault with power weapons. Don't be afraid because I'm sure it's a deamon that is inside of them, and we know how to kill them ;)

[Captain Idaho]

Hmm. Think Grey Knights can deal with Necrons pretty well provided you don't take them on in a shooting tit for tat argument. The do have some close combat options, though unless they get good transport options for those Triarchs and the like I can't see anyone taking them. Initiative 2 is just so poor when you haven't got massive numbers. We shall see with some of the options in the Codex I suppose.

 

Thing about this Necron army is I think it will directly restore a little balance back to the gaming scene. Grey Knights can't just sit on their purity seals and shoot more Psycannons than a Dark Eldar army has Dark Lances, as they either won't have the range against Necrons or the punch. AV13 all round vehicles is excellent, especially on "light" artillery platforms with S9 AP1 blast weapons. Maybe a few points need to be exchanged for some faster options for the Grey Knights, so they can apply pressure on the Necron lines before the firepower makes itself known and the game has gone too far one way to swing back?

 

Still, bit early to formulate comprehensive plans, especially as we have no information on those Tomb Spyders, Wraiths and the maybe unit of Triarch Stalker. I'm eager to see what is going on in the future though.

[Inquisitor Fox]

Causing a pen on AV 13 is easy for a psycannon. .5927 pens per shooting phase from a single psycannon. So that AV 13 transport isn't that big of a deal really.. point a few psycannons (which we have all over) at it and it'll go down :)

[Azatoth]

Causing a pen on AV 13 is easy for a psycannon. .5927 pens per shooting phase from a single psycannon. So that AV 13 transport isn't that big of a deal really.. point a few psycannons (which we have all over) at it and it'll go down :)

 

Yes but the Sisters will hate the power that lets them destroy melta/flamer weapons I think.

[Crynn]

The doomsday ark may be annoying with that range however not knowing the full stats of all the Necron ranged weapons it's hard to tell at this point.

 

What can be said is any greyknight (not henchman excluding DCA) armie with have little problems with them in combat, Hi I power weapons alowing us to win combat easily and run them down will be great. Also that shard that may become used frequently that destroys melta and flamer weapons will do little to us. Our shooting is only average against them, however they may struggle against our transports with the whole auto glancing on 6 thing laregely being cancelled out by fortitude.

 

I think untill the codex is out it's all still up in the air.

 

Regards,

Crynn

[DIDM]

first of all you need Yoshimi

 

 

then you have to wait for the new codex to learn stuff

[Spacefrisian]

What can be said is any greyknight (not henchman excluding DCA) armie with have little problems with them in combat, Hi I power weapons alowing us to win combat easily and run them down will be great.

 

Assuming you get into close combat.

[*Furyou Miko]

Ghost Arks are shaping up to be in the realm of 130-140 points apiece, so they shouldn't swarm the field too badly.

 

Two points of relief: One, the Quantum Shielding only applies to the front and side arcs. Two: Warscythes are unlikely to be quite so lethal as before against Terminators - you get your shiny little Invuns now.=

[The Holy Heretic]

I fail to see the point of this thread. Are you talking about tailoring your army when you know you're facing necrons or what? Cause in a tournament you'll still face a lot of other stuff :o

 

The necrons are tough, shoot hard and aren't exactly fit for CC. So the tactic is clear, close and dismantle :)

[*Furyou Miko]

What's with the obsession with tournaments?

 

I've never been to a tournament, probably never will, and I still like discussing tactics for fighting various armies. You never know exactly what you're going to get in a pick-up game either.

[Chengar Qordath]

Not to mention that there's plenty of room for discussing what tactics to use agains a given army/what units to look out for/etc. without moving into the realm of list-tailoring.

[Captain Idaho]

Causing a pen on AV 13 is easy for a psycannon. .5927 pens per shooting phase from a single psycannon. So that AV 13 transport isn't that big of a deal really.. point a few psycannons (which we have all over) at it and it'll go down :)

 

Forgot about just HOW MANY psycannons you guys get!

 

Yep, the mid range still belongs to Grey Knights. That is probably the Grey Knight player's best tactics against Necrons; get in close and start knocking their open topped vehicles out. Necrons can't move away from the GK forever.

[NeoSamurai]

The two biggest concerns I have before developing strategy would be if they have a package cost for basetroops (i.e. 5 Strike Squad GK = 100 pts) and if they have an HQ that changes something into basic troops. As it currently stands, a lot of those changes do look good individually, imo, the list building and unit synergies are gonna decide what actually makes it into a Necron list.

[*Furyou Miko]

Rumours say nothing converts FOC slots in the Necron army, and Warriors are the same price as Dominions per model... but I don't think we'll be seeing many Warriors on the field after the first month or so as people make the switch over to Immortal-based armies.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Had a look at the codex now (my mate collects them, and he's over the moon with the changes and SC's)

 

I'm just going to list the stuff that's worrisome for us, stuff I consider trash or not a threat isn't going to be mentioned;

 

HQ:

 

Imotekh is the most annoying hero for us, because of his permanent Night Fight ability and free S8 lightning bolts on all enemy units (on 6's, but if it hits one of our vehicles and blows it up, grrrr no more PsyDread/Razor). Shutting down our dakka is important, because without it, we're much less effective. Luckily, he's relatively easy to kill (WS4), but that phase shifter and Rez will present problems keeping him dead.

Nemesor Zandrekh has subtler abilities, so pay attention when he's fielded. He grants one USR (most of the good ones too) to one unit per turn (and can change which USR and unit it is each turn, so very flexible), and he removes one USR from one enemy unit (again, changeable every turn, and the same list of good ones). Knights rely more on psychic powers than USR's though, so he's not as good at removing our abilities. However, granting 'Tank Hunters' etc with unlimited range should worry us. Again, 3++ save, so you'll need to get up close and force weapon his face repeatedly.

Orikan the Diviner is the Deciever, but as an IC that can hide in units. His powered-up version can randomly dissipate or come back each turn, as it's a D6 under or equal to turn number. In powered-up form, he's pretty dangerous in close-combat, but in normal form he's weak. Has a phase shifter, so still hard to remove. He allows re-rolls to all Reserves for one turn per game, which is annoying. More annoying is his Temporal Mines, which mean on Turn 1, all our units count as being in difficult terrain if we move.

Trazyn: Empathic Obliterator really doesn't worry us, as he's unlikely to kill anything in power armour or TDA. He's a scoring unit (meaning he attaches to non-scoring stuff and camps objectives), and he can replace other models in the army when killed (only certain generic HQ's though).

 

Royal Court is a choice of spammable Crypteks and Lords. Lords are for cheap Rez Orb spam, Crypteks have an AP2 missile launcher staff thats Assault and shorter-ranged, and in sufficient quantities and supported by a Triarch Stalker twin-link, they can blow up our armour or kill off Paladins. Most of their other wargear and abilities are worthless regardless, but they're especially worthless against Knights. Oh, and pro-tip, Staffs of Light are no longer power weapons in close-combat.

 

Elites:

 

Triarch Stalker: Cheap, AV13 until you pen it, and if it manages to hit a unit, the ENTIRE NECRON ARMY gets twin-linked against it. Pretty insane, and because it also carries a heat ray (multi-melta with 2 shots and greater range, turns into heavy flamer up close), it kills our vehicles as well. This is how Necrons take apart Deathstars.

C'Tan Shard: 'Writhing Worldscape' is the only one we have to worry about, the other abilities it has are grotesquely overpriced or useless. 'Worldscape' means all difficult terrain is dangerous, and dangerous terrain activates on a 1 or 2 now. Combined with Orikan's Temporal Mines, and Turn 1 is a really bad time to try and move. 4+ invul, pretty typical MC statline, I4 is the real killer though. Going to be a fire magnet, but he dies to halberds like most MC's.

Deathmarks: Outflanking or Deepstriking is a really bad idea if these are in the army, as they will show up as soon as you do and rapid-fire sniper rifle into you. Additionally, they can mark you and wound on 2's. They're pretty easy to take down in close-combat though, so counter-charges are highly effective. Expect to get a unit mauled by them, then clean them up in close-combat.

 

Troops:

 

Immortals are just Tactical Marines with I2 and Rez. Gauss blasters have to rapid-fire to be useful, and that puts them within assault range so you're more likely to see telsa carbines (especially as both we can shrug off with our armour saves). Night Scythe has telsa autocannons with half range but it's fast and skimmer. I wouldn't expect to see more than the minimum two choices. They'll never win a firefight with us, and in close-combat they're doomed. PsyDreads will knock Scythes out of the sky before they can get in range, so again not much to worry about on that front.

 

Side-note: Warriors are terrible, but they unlock Ghost Arks. Ghost Arks are also terrible, but some dumb people might use them, in which case more AV13 is annoying. D3 Warriors back up each turn doesn't mean anything, because we'll wipe entire units each turn we shoot (AP4 does that, as does massed fire against 4+ saves). if they are fielded, punish them with Dreadknights ripping them apart in close-combat.

 

Fast Attack:

 

Wraiths are a real headache for Knights. 3+ invul saves and 2 wounds mean they're going to stick around, jump infantry means they outmanovre us, S6 Rending and whip coils (I1 to enemy models in BTB) means they cannot be allowed to get near our PsyDreads, Strike Knights or Razors. They can even take on Terminator blob or Draigostar and tie them up and maul them for a while. No Rez though, so every force weapon hit you get through their 3+ invul is a dead Wraith. Dreadknight is a great counter, his greatsword with force weapon turned on will go through them very quickly, and his 2+ armour means they'll have to rely on Rends to kill (and even then, 5+ invul will stop some). Terminator blob and Draigostar will still kill them, but being tied up for a while is annoying.

Destroyers are expensive but effective fire support. Gauss cannon will bounce off TDA, but Purifiers and Strike Knights will want to avoid them. Heavy Destroyers are very dangerous to our vehicles (mobile lascannon), but it's only got heavy bolter range, so our own lascannon and autocannon can knock them out before they can close. Close-combat is another great option, as they're I2 like all Necrons.

Scarabs are not a problem for Knights. Simply turn on force weapons, swing and watch entire swarms evaporate with every wound you inflict. Our vehicles are in danger of being swarmed however, so like with Wraiths, protecting them is key. As a side-note, plasma cannon is utterly lethal, they're only Beasts now (no turbo-boost save), and psycannon or autocannon (hell even PsyRazors with heavy bolters) will instant-death swarms.

 

Heavy Support:

 

Doomsday Ark is the Demolisher of Necrons. Big huge gun, but once the gun is gone, it's pretty worthless. AP1 lascannon large blast with railgun range is insanely powerful though, and will take apart Terminator blob or Paladins before they can get in range. If you see one of these fielded, it might be a good idea to try and up the bodycount and leave TDA in the armoury. A Dreadknight is crucial for getting rid of it quickly, AV13 (quantum shielding) means it's not going to die to PsyDreads or Razors easily.

Annhilation Barge is cheap AV13 but it's guns are too short-range to be of worry to use. Again, hunt down with Dreadknight.

Doom Scythe has an annoying railgun beam of death, but it's gimmicky and like the Night Scythe no quantum shielding, so PsyDreads blow it apart pretty easily.

Monolith is still AV14, but its not invulnerable like it used to be. Dreadknight is again a good counter, it can only move 6" a turn so at worst you hit on 4's. If you do manage to get up close with another unit, boosted hammers or 'Might of Titan' will be required to break it. Particle Whip is only AP3 and shorter range, so it's nowhere near as dangerous as Doomsday Ark.

Spyder is easily killed in close-combat, but they're very cheap. Typically, you'll see this guy hiding behind a Doomsday Ark to repair it's main gun if you blow it off.

 

The overall picture versus Necrons is the same as before; leverage our mobile units and close-combat power, while using firepower to down key targets. Except for Wraiths, we go same time or faster than everything in the army in close-combat, and Rez only works if the unit still has models remaining by the end of the phase (Ever-Living overrules this, but it's only on characters). Sweeping Advance is our friend. Getting our powers working is easy, nothing in the Necron list can shut down buff powers (Spyders have a gloom prism upgrade to shrug offensive powers off, but it's a pretty worthless upgrade against Knights). Our power and TDA plate will allow us to close pretty easily (AP3 and AP2 is pretty hard to come by with Crons), and for the more dangerous stuff, we have the ever-useful Dreadknight.

[soots]

warp rift?

i2 gonna hurt them

[Gentlemanloser]

Removed as a Casualy. Not the better 'Removed form Play' that Jaws has. :D

 

Means the Crons will still get a RP roll. /sadpanda

[soots]

not great,still effective but rolling 5+ is always difficult(for me) :D

[Chengar Qordath]

A template that insta-kills Necrons with no saves is going to be really useful, especially for dealing with Wraiths, Lychguard, and anything else with a 3++. Sure, RP is still an issue, but I would think that after the template does its work, finishing off the rest of the unit by shooting/charging should be within the realm of doability.

[Captain Idaho]

Had a look at the codex now (my mate collects them, and he's over the moon with the changes and SC's)

 

I'm just going to list the stuff that's worrisome for us, stuff I consider trash or not a threat isn't going to be mentioned;

 

HQ:

 

Imotekh is the most annoying hero for us, because of his permanent Night Fight ability and free S8 lightning bolts on all enemy units (on 6's, but if it hits one of our vehicles and blows it up, grrrr no more PsyDread/Razor). Shutting down our dakka is important, because without it, we're much less effective. Luckily, he's relatively easy to kill (WS4), but that phase shifter and Rez will present problems keeping him dead.

Nemesor Zandrekh has subtler abilities, so pay attention when he's fielded. He grants one USR (most of the good ones too) to one unit per turn (and can change which USR and unit it is each turn, so very flexible), and he removes one USR from one enemy unit (again, changeable every turn, and the same list of good ones). Knights rely more on psychic powers than USR's though, so he's not as good at removing our abilities. However, granting 'Tank Hunters' etc with unlimited range should worry us. Again, 3++ save, so you'll need to get up close and force weapon his face repeatedly.

Orikan the Diviner is the Deciever, but as an IC that can hide in units. His powered-up version can randomly dissipate or come back each turn, as it's a D6 under or equal to turn number. In powered-up form, he's pretty dangerous in close-combat, but in normal form he's weak. Has a phase shifter, so still hard to remove. He allows re-rolls to all Reserves for one turn per game, which is annoying. More annoying is his Temporal Mines, which mean on Turn 1, all our units count as being in difficult terrain if we move.

Trazyn: Empathic Obliterator really doesn't worry us, as he's unlikely to kill anything in power armour or TDA. He's a scoring unit (meaning he attaches to non-scoring stuff and camps objectives), and he can replace other models in the army when killed (only certain generic HQ's though).

 

Royal Court is a choice of spammable Crypteks and Lords. Lords are for cheap Rez Orb spam, Crypteks have an AP2 missile launcher staff thats Assault and shorter-ranged, and in sufficient quantities and supported by a Triarch Stalker twin-link, they can blow up our armour or kill off Paladins. Most of their other wargear and abilities are worthless regardless, but they're especially worthless against Knights. Oh, and pro-tip, Staffs of Light are no longer power weapons in close-combat.

 

Elites:

 

Triarch Stalker: Cheap, AV13 until you pen it, and if it manages to hit a unit, the ENTIRE NECRON ARMY gets twin-linked against it. Pretty insane, and because it also carries a heat ray (multi-melta with 2 shots and greater range, turns into heavy flamer up close), it kills our vehicles as well. This is how Necrons take apart Deathstars.

C'Tan Shard: 'Writhing Worldscape' is the only one we have to worry about, the other abilities it has are grotesquely overpriced or useless. 'Worldscape' means all difficult terrain is dangerous, and dangerous terrain activates on a 1 or 2 now. Combined with Orikan's Temporal Mines, and Turn 1 is a really bad time to try and move. 4+ invul, pretty typical MC statline, I4 is the real killer though. Going to be a fire magnet, but he dies to halberds like most MC's.

Deathmarks: Outflanking or Deepstriking is a really bad idea if these are in the army, as they will show up as soon as you do and rapid-fire sniper rifle into you. Additionally, they can mark you and wound on 2's. They're pretty easy to take down in close-combat though, so counter-charges are highly effective. Expect to get a unit mauled by them, then clean them up in close-combat.

 

Troops:

 

Immortals are just Tactical Marines with I2 and Rez. Gauss blasters have to rapid-fire to be useful, and that puts them within assault range so you're more likely to see telsa carbines (especially as both we can shrug off with our armour saves). Night Scythe has telsa autocannons with half range but it's fast and skimmer. I wouldn't expect to see more than the minimum two choices. They'll never win a firefight with us, and in close-combat they're doomed. PsyDreads will knock Scythes out of the sky before they can get in range, so again not much to worry about on that front.

 

Side-note: Warriors are terrible, but they unlock Ghost Arks. Ghost Arks are also terrible, but some dumb people might use them, in which case more AV13 is annoying. D3 Warriors back up each turn doesn't mean anything, because we'll wipe entire units each turn we shoot (AP4 does that, as does massed fire against 4+ saves). if they are fielded, punish them with Dreadknights ripping them apart in close-combat.

 

Fast Attack:

 

Wraiths are a real headache for Knights. 3+ invul saves and 2 wounds mean they're going to stick around, jump infantry means they outmanovre us, S6 Rending and whip coils (I1 to enemy models in BTB) means they cannot be allowed to get near our PsyDreads, Strike Knights or Razors. They can even take on Terminator blob or Draigostar and tie them up and maul them for a while. No Rez though, so every force weapon hit you get through their 3+ invul is a dead Wraith. Dreadknight is a great counter, his greatsword with force weapon turned on will go through them very quickly, and his 2+ armour means they'll have to rely on Rends to kill (and even then, 5+ invul will stop some). Terminator blob and Draigostar will still kill them, but being tied up for a while is annoying.

Destroyers are expensive but effective fire support. Gauss cannon will bounce off TDA, but Purifiers and Strike Knights will want to avoid them. Heavy Destroyers are very dangerous to our vehicles (mobile lascannon), but it's only got heavy bolter range, so our own lascannon and autocannon can knock them out before they can close. Close-combat is another great option, as they're I2 like all Necrons.

Scarabs are not a problem for Knights. Simply turn on force weapons, swing and watch entire swarms evaporate with every wound you inflict. Our vehicles are in danger of being swarmed however, so like with Wraiths, protecting them is key. As a side-note, plasma cannon is utterly lethal, they're only Beasts now (no turbo-boost save), and psycannon or autocannon (hell even PsyRazors with heavy bolters) will instant-death swarms.

 

Heavy Support:

 

Doomsday Ark is the Demolisher of Necrons. Big huge gun, but once the gun is gone, it's pretty worthless. AP1 lascannon large blast with railgun range is insanely powerful though, and will take apart Terminator blob or Paladins before they can get in range. If you see one of these fielded, it might be a good idea to try and up the bodycount and leave TDA in the armoury. A Dreadknight is crucial for getting rid of it quickly, AV13 (quantum shielding) means it's not going to die to PsyDreads or Razors easily.

Annhilation Barge is cheap AV13 but it's guns are too short-range to be of worry to use. Again, hunt down with Dreadknight.

Doom Scythe has an annoying railgun beam of death, but it's gimmicky and like the Night Scythe no quantum shielding, so PsyDreads blow it apart pretty easily.

Monolith is still AV14, but its not invulnerable like it used to be. Dreadknight is again a good counter, it can only move 6" a turn so at worst you hit on 4's. If you do manage to get up close with another unit, boosted hammers or 'Might of Titan' will be required to break it. Particle Whip is only AP3 and shorter range, so it's nowhere near as dangerous as Doomsday Ark.

Spyder is easily killed in close-combat, but they're very cheap. Typically, you'll see this guy hiding behind a Doomsday Ark to repair it's main gun if you blow it off.

 

The overall picture versus Necrons is the same as before; leverage our mobile units and close-combat power, while using firepower to down key targets. Except for Wraiths, we go same time or faster than everything in the army in close-combat, and Rez only works if the unit still has models remaining by the end of the phase (Ever-Living overrules this, but it's only on characters). Sweeping Advance is our friend. Getting our powers working is easy, nothing in the Necron list can shut down buff powers (Spyders have a gloom prism upgrade to shrug offensive powers off, but it's a pretty worthless upgrade against Knights). Our power and TDA plate will allow us to close pretty easily (AP3 and AP2 is pretty hard to come by with Crons), and for the more dangerous stuff, we have the ever-useful Dreadknight.

 

Biased and dare I say it, a little arm chair dictation?

 

So for taking Ghost Arks a player is dumb? It's an AV13 Transport which repairs it's transported unit and can fire 10 Gauss shots to either side whilst it's cargo fire from their open topped transport. That's decent firepower.

 

In a similar way, the Doomsday Ark is nothing like a Vindicator. Has 2 Gauss Flayer arrays AND has a 72" range with AV13!

[*Furyou Miko]

Actually, comparing the Doomsday Arc to a vindicator isn't that stupid. They're both AV13, afaik, with a big gun. It's easy enough to get lascannons in range though... Oh, wait, you don't get Annihilators. :P

 

The Flayer Arrays are too short range to come into place except as point-defence against deep strikers, but attempting to DS against it is pure folly because of them - if you drop in a squad on either side, you're getting 10-20 gauss flayer hits before you can even think of assaulting.

[Captain Idaho]

I never said anything was stupid, I was actually responding to his post which specified players were dumb for taking a particular choice.

 

But the difference in range makes Vindicators and Doomsday Arks massively different, especially for Grey Knight forces to deal with. They sit back miles away from the action and don't have an easy side shot to neutralise their shooting. They are also all but immune to shaking and have a 50-50 chance of ignoring stunned results. Added to that there are normally other AV13 vehicles bearing down on Grey Knight armies and I think the Doomsday Ark is a massively different proposition to a Vindicator.

 

Flayer Arrays are fairly good really, as being mounted on a vehicle they can fire up to 24" even if they move and you can still fire the main weapon (although it's weaker if you move). Nothing spectacular but far less harmless than a mere Storm Bolter.

[*Furyou Miko]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as abrasive. Would foolish have been a better word? You were implying it was a bad idea to compare them.

 

Don't you GK types have orbital bombardments to deal with stuff like the Ark?

[Captain Idaho]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as abrasive. Would foolish have been a better word? You were implying it was a bad idea to compare them.

 

Don't you GK types have orbital bombardments to deal with stuff like the Ark?

 

Yeah I am always surprised GK players don't take a minimum of Techmarine in every army, as being able to fire a S10 AP1 template EVERY TURN would be amazing, and when firing against infantry yo can hammer them with different ordnance.