Chengar Qordath Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Sorry, I didn't mean to come off as abrasive. Would foolish have been a better word? You were implying it was a bad idea to compare them. Don't you GK types have orbital bombardments to deal with stuff like the Ark? Yeah I am always surprised GK players don't take a minimum of Techmarine in every army, as being able to fire a S10 AP1 template EVERY TURN would be amazing, and when firing against infantry yo can hammer them with different ordnance. The techmarine would probably be a lot more popular if he didn't have to compete with Paladins, Purifiers, Assassins, and Ven-Dreads for that Elite slot. I've used one a couple times, and been quite happy with the results. Of course, I often use techmarines as grenade-carriers instead of Orbital Strike shooters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Unless you use Karamazov, the OS is just to unreliable to be worth it. Especially as the Techmarine can take a Conversion Beamer as well. 50 points on something that *always* scatters. No thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 50 points? Wow. Guard only pay 30, although their BS is lower. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 50 points? Wow. Guard only pay 30, although their BS is lower. unforunately bs dowsn reduce the scatter of orbital strikes, hence their uselessness. The only reliable one is a mastercrafted one on a grand master but it's a waste of a gm to make him stand still every turn. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922698 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 He's relentless. Does that mean he can move and drop ordnance? G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 From memory, the orbital barrage requires you to not have moved during the moving phase. It isn't classed as a heavy weapon though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922761 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 ... Your orbital strikes... kinda really suck. The Gaurd can drop a S10 AP2 template every turn. They lose their BS to the roll if they're out of LoS, or if they move. But.. wow. I mean, the Techmarine's a bit more durable (Master of Ordnance has T3, W1, 5+), but he's part of a squad... man. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922837 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Captain Kezef Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Vindicare could be useful against the Necron BFG. Generaly I don't think my tactics will change, seems the necrons are as vulnerable to close combat as Tau. Only thing that worries me is the entropic stuff. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Yup, our OS suck. The Conversion Beamer is the better option by far. Even if we can't make our Techies relentless. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922925 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 My worry before reading the necron codex was about their lychguard, but considering their terminator equivalent stuff is t5, 3+ save and able to get a 4+ save, I'm less scared. Wiping out the whole squad will bypass their Reanimation protocols. My second fear is their lascannon large blast, as I play Draigo wing, but I can always reserve a squad to deepstrike next to it, massed psycannon's will bring anything down :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2922981 Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Furyou Miko Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Will the Conversion Beamer not, in fact, totally wreck the Doomsday Ark? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2923131 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 The Lychguard will have problems versus Paladins and Purifiers but I think they'll do fine versus other units. You really have to think about shooting them if they are up close and have dispersion shields. G :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2923283 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 well, only with low ap weaponry, anything that would allow them their normal save wont be bounced back :pirate: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2923540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 Sniping Techmarines against Doomsday Arks might be good, though Solar Pulses can eliminate any first strike against it thanks to the night fighting it can force whilst the returning fire isn't so affected. Beware assaulting Destroyer Lords and Wraiths with Paladins! They can force you to attack last even with their Halberds (following Lash Whips in the GK FAQ). Obviously if your squad is a big 10 man it isn't so bad, but a reduced squad could have some difficulties in eliminating the squad quickly. Be especially careful of the Destroyer Lord; he will often have Mind Shackle Scarabs which stand a good chance of stopping 1 model from attacking and using D3 of it's attacks against it's own unit! This means it might not be safe to activate Force Weapons to remove the Wraiths and Destroyer Lord, since up to 3 attacks could end up killing 3 whole Paladins! Best counter for such a unit is shoot them dead before they charge you. Fortunately for GKs their weapons are ideal for killing Wraiths at range, as they are only T4 and have a 3+ save. I think GK will have to prioritise their targets more carefully than any other opponent against Necrons, since some stuff is so dangerous it just has to be removed first. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2923565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Darvaleth Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 - Grandmaster: Slaps down their heroes with ease, 3+ invul in combat from default sword prevents their close-combat units easily killing him, and his nade options are fantastic. Bahahahahahaha.................. Foolish mortals. Any Necron Overlord worth their salt will take Mindshackle Scarabs and laugh as your Grandmasters hit themselves (or better still, their unit) in combat. What a waste of all those points you spent! <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2924738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Yep, I faced Necrons in a 1500 game this weekend. Slapping down their heroes is hard when they have a 2+/3+ inv, T5, and mindshackle scarabs. First, you'll never get to actually attack him. Second, if you do you generally have to use hammerhands (or hope you charged with rad). Then there's that 3+ inv save he has... Mobs of guys + overlord + cryptec with S8 ranged weapon can definitely cause problems. They are difficult to keep down since they always get up now, no matter the force weapons. Good news is that the doomsday ark will be generally useless. With so few targets (and models) to hit, it will generally be a non-issue. At least, it was in my game. I even let it live for 7 turns, and all it did was shake a razorback. The vindicare was great at wreck-facing the monolith too. It deepstriked, stunned a razorback, then got blown up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2924759 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted November 16, 2011 Share Posted November 16, 2011 Foolish mortals. Any Necron Overlord worth their salt will take Mindshackle Scarabs and laugh as your Grandmasters hit themselves (or better still, their unit) in combat. What a waste of all those points you spent! As ICs are classed as thier own unit in CC, if hit by Mindshackle Scarabs, they can only hit themself. Edit: Techmarine with Rad 'nades ftw? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2925018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Foolish mortals. Any Necron Overlord worth their salt will take Mindshackle Scarabs and laugh as your Grandmasters hit themselves (or better still, their unit) in combat. What a waste of all those points you spent! As ICs are classed as thier own unit in CC, if hit by Mindshackle Scarabs, they can only hit themself. Edit: Techmarine with Rad 'nades ftw? Yeah it's a weird one to be fair. Technically yes, MCs and ICs are a unit all of their own, so they beat themselves about. Makes sense fluff wise really but strange to experience! Just imagine Mephiston being charged by a Destroyer Lord, the Blood Angels player thinking "here we go, an easy Kill Point" and then you go and force him to attack himself with D3 attacks instead of killing the Lord! Priceless! So just be careful with those Shunting Dreadknights when there are Wraiths and Destroyer Lords about. Wraiths also can (most players will take Whip Coils) make your models Initiative 1... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2926180 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Just imagine Mephiston being charged by a Destroyer Lord, the Blood Angels player thinking "here we go, an easy Kill Point" and then you go and force him to attack himself with D3 attacks instead of killing the Lord! Priceless! Shoot the choppy. Wraiths also can (most players will take Whip Coils) make your models Initiative 1... SHOOT THE CHOPPY! ;) Though we will have to be careful of a canny Necron player who castles up: trusting to superior firepower and resilience to force you to come to grips with his deadly counter-assault units. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2926223 Share on other sites More sharing options...
neonfunk Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Hey guys... Just got my new necrons codex... First impression, is that we (GK) have been superceded as the "dominant medium range (24"-36") firepower army". Reason for this is: 1) gauss weaponry is 24" minimum (heavy gauss cannon is 36"). The weakest version of the gauss weps have the exact profile as bolters, BUT blasters and cannons are S5 and cannons have AP3! 2) carbine/tesla weaponry are also all 24" with assault values ranging up to 4. They are also ridiculously high strength and have potential to inflict extra 2 hits via 6 rolls. If I was a necron player going up against Meq/Teq, i'd be choosing the tesla carbines over the gauss cannons, for obvious reasons - and would take this over storm bolters with psybolt ammo anyday. 3) Particle weaponry... again, minimum 24", high strength and low AP, AND are blast weps. and I havent even touched on the more exotic wargear that can be taken by paretorians (who, despite having a 6" S5 Ap2, are JUMP IMFANTRY, so their dont let that 6" range decive you! You cant consistenly kite Jump Infantry, unless you are using JI's yourself) , crypteks and certain characaters, that are terminator/paladin killing i.e. rods of covenants and eldritch lances. So, I really dont think how storm bolters or even psycannons can match this. Although incinerators would be an ideal choice, but since psycannons are the best all round weapon we have, there wont be space for incinerators (except HI on DK), because I dont like tailoring my list just to exploit the weakness of my opponent's army- hence, I will be leaving my psycannons on my models (I have 2 PAGK w/ incinerators and a termie with 1- which is just from my old DH models, but I digress...) So... its painstaikingly clear. Assault the shooters and shoot the assaulters. The $1 mil question is... how do we get into CC? - Deepstrike? not a best idea imo due to deathmarks. And even if they arent there... Ok, you might put a able to put a dent into a few things, but you will have your units served to your enemy on a silver platter on the next turn. If a DS approach is to be taken, then double psychic communion would be advantageous, as we want as many DS'ers coming down in their deployment zone simultaneously, creating multiple threats. I've also played around with the idea of Mordrak + Ghost knights + Lbby, and warp rift an important target. But again, leaving a 600 point unit at the mercy of the whole 2k worth of uber guns. Silver platter conundrum. OR: - Will we see a semi resurgence of the old Daeomhunters approach of 2 land raiders to transport those DCA's or termies, or purifiers i.e. our best CC units? Well, that would be VERY expensive points wise, and the necron guns and scarabs would make short work of even av14. So, a traditional load em up and off you go approach. A multi-transport option, consisting of mainly rhinos, and possibly a land raider or 2. In the transports (rhinos or razors with some heavy guns to boot), I'd like to include purgation or purifier squads that can get cheap access to incinerators (auto-win against necron warrios) and psycannon., We can set up lanes of LOS, and use perhaps a vindicare or dread to take advantage of that. The purgators can also make use of Astro Aim, which imo is the only trump card we have over the necrons in the 24" gunfight. The Land raiders (and up-graded razorbacks) of course have their share to find purchase in the necron AV's. I also see a libby as paramount, the summoning will definately come in handy... never underestimate the potenial of a wrecked rhino! Also, warp rift would be autowin. If we use Coteaz as a 2nd HQ, we can take advantage of DCA squads that would tear the necrons to shreds. Not to mention, plas/melta toting warrior acloytes shooting out of chimras. OR: - Shunters! Incterceptors and NDKs of course. Self explanatory reallly, but we would have the same problems as the 1st approach. i.e. we need concentrated multiple threats, not drip feeding them our units. Perhaps a hybrid of this approach and the 1st could work. Advance forward with Jump infantry in early turns, then rely on psychic communion to bring in the Deepstrikers on our terms. Teleport in a 5 man GKSS here, another one there, a lone pally (or perhaps 2-3 if Draigo is in the list), maybe a callidus to the mix. Should cause some headaches for your opponent in terms of target saturation. If it hasn't occured to you yet (not out of an oversight of couse, but because of the recency of the Codex update), I have assumed that the necron force will be a gunline army. They definately have the potential to be an elite "dark-eldar type" like force, with their new fast vehicles and jump infantry. To be honest, I really cant wait to face a new Necron army. I would greatly appreciate if anyone can provide any insight into the matter... And in your experience, What necrons units are you most afraid of? Which GK units would be best suitable for the task at hand? All the posts I've read have been very helpful, but no one response has really submitted an outright strategy against the necrons- most posts (while are absolutely valid) it just like "watch out mindscarabs", or "use orbital strike relays". Quite vague, as I'm interested in receiving feedback on an overall approach/strategy. Thanks in advance! N.B. speaking of OSR's, would it be wise to employ Karamazov or techmarines/OX inquisitors with coversion beamers in order to "coax" the necron phalanx into an advancing position, thereby closing the distance required to engage in CC? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2927201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I am yet to play vs them, but I too am looking forward to it, and combining with a friend, we have enough necrons to make a sizable force, using count as for the newer stuff. I guess the main tactic is to wipe out their squads to get round their Reanimation protocols. And if you have vehicles and are scared of scarab's in your area take template weapons or bubble wrap your vehicles. Lords can have saves in combat equal to our grand master with sword, so be careful. Their armour 13 until penetrated can be annoying, but I find massed psycannon's deal with armour no matter the value. I don't fear much from necrons with my Draigo wing, except mind phase scarabs, but ill just have to be careful with placement of Draigo (so he doesn't smite my paladins). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2927208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 massed psycannon's will bring anything down ;) And than you notice that there are is an identical unit behind you. I am still in the procces of going through the codex, but i already noticed several anti CC upgrades in it. Just a friendly reminder not to get overconfident in cc eg, you might win it but what is it going to do you if youre WS/BS/I/A are perminently reduced to zero. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2927556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglez Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 pretty sure that is a weapon that does allow armour saves, and puts those stats down to 1, not 0. A lot of their elite infantry are still only 3+ saves, only their IC's get 2+ saves. so massed shooting will bring them down. Night fight can get annoying, but if you have vehicles, take searchlights, and if you dont, well you will just have to cope ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2927566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Mindshackle scarabs is bad news... Have to be very careful with that one floating around. G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2927572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 pretty sure that is a weapon that does allow armour saves, and puts those stats down to 1, not 0. Yes its 1 not 0, and i didnt say its a powerweapon (i doubt you will be using fleet but alas thats lost as well.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241135-how-to-deal-with-the-necrontyr/page/2/#findComment-2927650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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