How to deal with the Necrontyr

[nurglez]

Worth considering that my judgement of things is from my armies point of view, and I use Draigo wing :D there are a few things I'm slightly worried off, but considering most necrons are shy with invulnerable saves, I should be able to torrent down their squads or destroy their vehicles, assuming I can see them of course ;)

[neonfunk]

There are PLENTLY of anti-cc options for the necrons now. Much of which has already been discussed. Another one that i caught a glimpse of is a cryptek ability that grants his accompanying unit an "ability" to deal D6 S8 AP5 hits (!), to an enemy unit that is charging them. Combine this with mind scarabs, and honestly, I dont think a paladin heavy/draigowing army (dont forget deathmarks can "mark" your deathstar... *shudder*) would easily massacre say, a royal court. And even if they do, I'm sure there's a squad or 2 of immortals or triarch praetorians with their fancy staves nearby licking their lips afther the assault aftermath.

 

I still think that a precision DS and shunt tactic would give us the best chance. Support this with purgators for astral aim (dont forget justicar can take teleport homer!) and perhaps a vindicare. We will lose if we go tit for tat short to medium range firefight..... IMO of course

 

... still, cant wait to play them!

(I wanna try a Karamazov and techmarine(s) w/ conversion beam combo, to coax them to advance. Jump infantry would be usefull for the kiting, and then charge when the opportuniy comes)

[nurglez]

the deathmark's mark only works for them and other deathmarks :o

 

Aye there are some scary things, I'm not saying I fear nothing from the new necrons, that deathray looks damn worrying, especially its ability to stay out of my weapon range and then boost forwards and wiping out a squad, but I fear demolishers and vindicators too, and they often only get 1 shot off before I stun/destroy them.

 

My friend who is starting necrons isn't the best general, though he is getting better, I look forward to any and all challenges, as that is how I learn, especially through defeat (unless I lose due to bad luck, which doesnt teach you anything...).

 

As always, if they have something scary in assault, shoot it, if they have something scary at shooting, assault it :D

[Captain Idaho]

Yeah the scary Necron stuff is pretty vulnerable to Psycannon fire, especially massed Psycannon fire. A big unit of Paladins isn't going to be scared of much in the list save Doom Sycthes and Doomsday Arks, and even then has the advantage of other Shunting units in support.

 

However, save die-hards like nurglez I imagine many players dropping Paladin armies simply because they may struggle against some of the more prominent Necron Net-lists, especially with other armies realising Paladins are a threat and building their armies accordingly.

 

As a Necron player myself, I can say big units of Paladins are the most worrying unit to face probably in 40K for me. But then I don't want a Necron list with 2 Doomsday Arks!

[nurglez]

Awww, I'm a die hard, thanks (i think :o ).

 

I'm sticking with pure pally armies, because I love them.

 

I'm sure that once necrons have been out for awhile we will come up with better tactics for facing them. And for fighting them, but until then its a lot of theory.

 

Let's see what the "net lists" are and then take them on :D

[Captain Idaho]

Awww, I'm a die hard, thanks (i think :lol: ).

 

Certainly meant as a compliment matey.

 

Anyway, I found Necrons were very vulnerable especially since they have expensive transports with only 10 maximum Warriors who are unforunately very vulnerable with their 4+ save. I can easily see the Paladins continuing their removal of entire units in single turns against them.

[Captain Darvaleth]

Anyway, I found Necrons were very vulnerable especially since they have expensive transports with only 10 maximum Warriors who are unforunately very vulnerable with their 4+ save. I can easily see the Paladins continuing their removal of entire units in single turns against them.

 

The only real reason I'd ever take Warriors is because I don't have enough Immortals. For not too many points Immortals benefit from a higher toughness, and a weapon with higher strength and lower AP. The only plus for warriors is ghost arks, but with Night Scythes being even cheaper AND coming with a free tesla destructor....

 

Just expect to see lots of Immortals as more people can get their hands on them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Warriors and Immortals are both T4 now.

[Chengar Qordath]

Warriors and Immortals are both T4 now.

Yeah, but the better armor save more than makes up the difference of the lost toughness against most weapons.

[neonfunk]

GK units/abilities/wargear that I see that are going to have an increase in their presence in lists against necrons:

 

1) Purgators- Astral aim, and teleport homer on justicar if you plan on DS'ing in your units. But the FREE incinerators on up to 4 out of 5 purgators (but you would probably only need 2 per 5) would be the bane of any necron with 4+ save or worse i.e. warriors, tomb blades, scarabs, flayed ones. Even against units that have a save of better than 4+, Astral "aimed" psybolt storm bolters and psycannons would still be of use, as the 4+ cover save granted by Astral Aim would be redundant from the necron point of view.

 

2) Interceptors- jump infantry with the shunt... self explanatory.

 

3) Dreadknight with Personal Teleporter and Daemonhammer or Greatsword if you can afford it. A Heavy Incinerator would obviously be awesome, but I think that in the DK's role here, you can might have to leave it at home, otherwise the unit will become uber expensive, due to the fact that the PT is relatively mandatory Vs the HI.

 

4) Vindicare Assassin - getting rid of those phase shifters (3++ save on characters) would be useful with shield breaker rounds. Also sniping out important buffing or eldritch lance wielding crypteks in royal courts would be handy. Turbo Penetrator rounds are self explanatory.

 

5) Coteaz - If you plan on utilising squads of DCA's and plasma cannon wielding gun servitors, or psyker squads for those blast templates.

 

6) Librarian with IMO are the mandatory psychic powers- warp rift, shrouding, and might of titan. Summoning can also be handy, as it increases our mobility.

 

7) PsyDreads (venerable- due to the fact that DKs and purgators will take up the heavy slots).

 

8) Heavy Blast Weapons i.e. OSR or conversion beamers - this is quite debatable, as it would be heavy points investments and would compete in crucial FOC slots, because they are only accessible to techmarines, inquisitors, and grand masters. Karamazov would be ideal IF he would allow more than 1 henchman squad. If you use Karamazov, you basically can only pick non-shooty units like crusaders to accompany him. This is due to his special OSR rule that dictates you must target a friendly model to use his ACCURATE OSR. This basically makes any shooty henchman literally useless- this is of course if you plan to use his OSR in this way (or if you decide to NOT have the henchman squad accompany him, and therefore can shoot or do anything you want).

[Captain Idaho]

Been thinking about the threat a Dreadknight and accompanying Shunting infantry are to Necrons and I actually think a Dreadknight isn't so hot a choice. He will likely put himself in assault range of the Destroyer Lord, his Wraith mates and his pet Mindshackle Scarabs. That means he will be lucky to even make attacks, strike at Initiative 1 and be swamped with Rending S6 hits and S7 power weapon attacks from the Destroyer Lord (who has preferred enemy).

 

Not too keen on trading off a one-shot incinerator shot for an expensive model.

 

Of course in a list with a couple of them plus Interceptors it might work fine since you get target saturation, but in general it seems like an easy move to counter.

[Lord Melvin]

While I don't play GK (although I wanted to back when they were still DH), I think that overloading on deathstar units will likely be the death of most lists. I've noticed from this discussion that the Necron codex seems more oriented towards breaking the usual powerplay that you see nowadays, which is very fluffy. Ultimately, when I pit my Ultrasmurfs against Necrons, it will be with many many many bolters (you can never have enough).

 

Alternatively, you could also just CREEEEEEEEEEED a formation of Imperator Titans out of the Necron Lord's ribcage...

[*Furyou Miko]

The Royal Court is an anti-deathstar. Beware it.

[nurglez]

Indeed it is, but for it to get 3++ will get rather expensive, and they almost all have 1 wound. While the mind scarabs scare me a lot, they randomly target models in base contact with the model, and its a ld test on 3d6 too, so while it is anti death star, it is also a death erstwhile too :)

[neonfunk]

Been thinking about the threat a Dreadknight and accompanying Shunting infantry are to Necrons and I actually think a Dreadknight isn't so hot a choice. He will likely put himself in assault range of the Destroyer Lord, his Wraith mates and his pet Mindshackle Scarabs. That means he will be lucky to even make attacks, strike at Initiative 1 and be swamped with Rending S6 hits and S7 power weapon attacks from the Destroyer Lord (who has preferred enemy).

 

Not too keen on trading off a one-shot incinerator shot for an expensive model.

 

Valid points, but as I postulated in a prior post last page, if we are to adhere to the general principle of shoot the killy CC's, and conversely, assault the shooties, then the $1 million question is... what is the best way to get into CC with these guys? Now of course, there are units in the new necron dex that I would certainly like to avoid in CC e.g. as you stated, wraiths with coils, destroyer lords, units with mindshackle scarabs etc... So basically, (and obviously) conditions will be highly situational, hence we can only come up with strategies that are general in nature. Now, drip-feeding your expensive DK's and interceptors are obviously going to be detrimental, but if done somewhat "properly" i.e. a co-ordinated shunt/DS/assault = presenting multiple threats, would seem a viable GENERAL approach. There are so many variables, but we can do our best to pick out units from our roster that we think that will do the job done. So those units were IMO the ones that I anticipate to be employed most regularly to counter the necrons. With all new codices, its always too early to tell, but I'm certainly excited about my next game against these guys. The synergy in this new codex is absolutely amazing! IMO, our only saving grace was that Matt Ward (it was him, correct?) didn't include a special character that could make FOC changes. "Wraithwing" list? *shudder*

 

And yes, that royal court is BAD-ass. Their cryptek options are insane... versatility personified.

[Captain Idaho]

Guess you missed where I said this:

 

Of course in a list with a couple of them plus Interceptors it might work fine since you get target saturation, but in general it seems like an easy move to counter.

 

:cuss

 

But you are right of course, establishing a list to beat allcomers and include in that a method of assaulting Necrons effectively without comprimising your ability to beat other lists is important. I'd say many of the ways of beating Imperial Guard would be appropriate to beating Necrons for GKs (power weapons army wide!).

 

I was directly referencing Shunting DKs because in some lists they are the most mobile element and I was just advising players to hold back on launching an attack with them. It's best to invite the Wraiths and Scarabs towards you so you can shoot them dead before you launch an attack on their back line with your shunting units.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It sound like people are used to waltzing through their assault phases... Now something comes along with some decent counters and you don't know what exactly to do. GK are much more powerful in melee. Sure it might not be easy as versus other armies but you should still be able to beat them.

 

G :lol:

[nurglez]

As gk's are great all rounders, just assault or stay back and shoot when it is an advantage to you :)

 

Best tactic for using any army :)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Can't argue against that tactic. :)

 

G <_<