BloodTzar Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Ok after this weekend i had few games with my "new fun" DoA list, against few friends. All of them are getting ready for a tourney which would be a 1800p turney so i had put some IP's or PW's here and there just to get my list from 1750 to 1800. Man I lost all of them but one, which can be very frustrating for a new army ... But first things first: My list: HQ: Dante Lib (rage, shield) HG (all JP,1 TH/SS, 1LC/SS, 2PW/BP and novite) E: 2xSang Priest (1PW and 1 none,JP) T: 10xASM (2MG,PF) 10xASM (2MG,TH) 5x SG (2IP,PF, Banner) 5x SG(IP,PF) total: 1750 First of all, for 1800 i did use PW's and i put a SS on one sarge with PF and one IP one the other sarge. All my games i deployed via deep strike, as i tought that is the way how DoA armies should be run. However I noticed that this is just bad idea as it can be. As most of my guys became just sitting ducks becouse of all the enemy movement. Now i know that i should be deploying instead of DoA-ing. However the question is, are Vanguard Vets a must in DoA lists? Or how to do DoA properly? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Deep Strike is another tool in the box. You don't always use it, but when you need it, it's there. And BA have one of the best DS tools around, with DoA. "Pure" DoA lists do need help from one of two units: Choppy Vanguard or shooty Honour Guard. We need one or both to tie up or destroy key elements of our opponents' forces. Without them, we do tend to be sitting ducks when we come in. That being said, if you take VV, you'll pretty much always want to DS them, even if you don't with the rest of the army. We pay a pretty penny for that Heroic Intervention, so use it. As for DoA itself, you'll need to be very smart about where you come in. It sounds obvious, but in practice it can be challenging until you get a feel for it. Here's some general guidelines I like to use: -Try to occupy one flank or the other with your DS units. -Place your disruption "tool" (VV/HG) such that it can create a blockage to the flow of your enemies reaction. -Use terrain and enemy models as best as you can, in order to limit the amount of fire you'll take the following turn. -The turn you drop in is your shooting Alpha Strike. Don't waste it. You've got a few turns of CC ahead of you before you can bring weight of fire back to the table. Aim to deal as much damage to enemy transports as you can. -Don't DS against really mobile armies, like DE, unless you can foresee a really good opportunity to punish them severely on the drop. Otherwise you'll fund yourself encircled and gunned down really quickly. Hope that helps a bit. The main lesson here though, is that the learning curve for DoA is very steep. You'll need some practice with it before you start winning consistently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912520 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 First of all, thank you a lot for help and advices. On the other hand, i am play against very experienced players that have been in the hobby i belive since 2nd ed. So there is lot of competition and they really know what they are doing. Therefore i feel like droping in to destroy transports is a bit suiccide, as that exactly happened to me last time i did this. I DSed in front of SW's and i got shot to pieces even i destroyed some Razorbacks i just couldnt stand the firepower of 3 long fangs and some HQ dread. Oh yeah forgot about some JAWS or whatever is the name of that OP psychic power they used to get rid of my HQ(dante)+priest :P I mean, is DoA that competetive? Or just mine DoA list is way of the line? I know i should run 3x 5 VV's with 1PF now... but other than that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 DoA does have some glaring deficiencies. Lack of ranged anti-tank. Predictability. Vulnerability to low AP shots after the drop (gaining cover while DSing isn't an exact science). First of all, Jaws of the World Wolf doesn't list Jump Infantry as a viable target. And Jump Infantry =/= Infantry. Jaws doesn't affect anything in your list. I'm a 2nd Ed player myself (actually my first couple games were RT, even though 2nd was released). I still say transports are a good target for you on the drop. But you still need to play smart, and look for drop zones that are out of LoS, or give cover, to the Long Fangs, etc. Also, you said it yourself: You dropped in front of your opponent. Where he could bring every weapon he had to bear. There is no magic formula for playing a DoA army. And unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your point of view), your seasoned opponents will make learning DoA even harder on you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912574 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonaides Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 Bear in mind that when you DS you only need to be within 18" of your intended target for the next turn - no need to appear right in front of them where they can shoot you up with ease. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 I am sorry, but is there any " official " site that i can quote from, about the JAWS ? Moreover, i was trying to get as much cover as possible, however i failed those 4+ rolls, i almost both of my SG guards to failed cover saves. Moreover whole time i was not able to cast anything against SW, nor eldar. I am just curiouse if there is any "DoA" archetype list that can be used as an inspiratoin? On the other hand, choppy HG was fun to have i must admit, as those storm shields + FnP are able to eat lot of enemy fire. But sure they would be better of if they were a VV's. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912583 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I am sorry, but is there any " official " site that i can quote from, about the JAWS ? Moreover, i was trying to get as much cover as possible, however i failed those 4+ rolls, i almost both of my SG guards to failed cover saves. Moreover whole time i was not able to cast anything against SW, nor eldar. I am just curiouse if there is any "DoA" archetype list that can be used as an inspiratoin? On the other hand, choppy HG was fun to have i must admit, as those storm shields + FnP are able to eat lot of enemy fire. But sure they would be better of if they were a VV's. No need for an "official" site to quote from. Open Codex: Space Wolves, find Jaws of the World Wolf. Read the list of unit types that it can hit. You won't find Jump Infantry on that list. 'Nuff said. As for the rest, you might find some answers and inspiration over at 3++. The following two articles in particular: BA Jump Pack Army Woes: Gameplay and Tactics How to: Jumper Armies And of course, some lists to look at: Warhammer 40,000 Army List Compilation Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912619 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 I am sorry, but is there any " official " site that i can quote from, about the JAWS ? Yep. The Space Wolves Codex. It lists what it affects. Infantry, beasts, cavalry, bikes, monstrous creatures. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 First of all, thanks a lot for all the help... I was curiouse about the JAWS, as the pro player assured me that they for sure hit jump infantry, just because the word "infantry". Well i was not either sure if it does auto-hit as there has been a discussion about it ... Anyways thank you all a lot, i might re-do my list somehow, or just simply go back to my dual-raven list which i find less difficult as DoA list is bit more different - way more tactical. :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I would like to kindly suggest you check my blog: http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com You'll find a wealth of articles that specifically cover DoA from many angles including everything from unit analysis to tactics and strategies. :) G :tu: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912723 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volcatus Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 I would like to kindly suggest you check my blog: http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com You'll find a wealth of articles that specifically cover DoA from many angles including everything from unit analysis to tactics and strategies. :) G :tu: Certainly a good resource. :) My apologies for not mentioning it above, BO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912730 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted October 31, 2011 Share Posted October 31, 2011 No problem m8. ;) G :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241184-how-to-doa/#findComment-2912915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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