Necrons: Pre-emptive Strike

[Something Wycked]

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...iembre_2011.pdf

 

There you go, its in a place where you can get it ^_^

[DerekLee688]

No offence, but if a player at my venue showed up with a print out of that, while I couldn't confirm it by going to GW website FAQ section, I'd laugh at him untill we rolled off for the rule or I found someone else to play. Though that's probably just because I'm from an English speaking country. However, if I were in Spain I'd have to adbide by that rule and take the apoclapse like multiple S10 AP1 hits.

[Something Wycked]

And why exactly would you laugh at this Necron player who is bringing in an errata that makes his weapon less powerful? :cuss Sounds like an honorable and friendly opponent to me, someone who I'd shake hands with and thank him for an enjoyable game.

 

This errata negates the interpretation that every unit suffers a number of hits equal to the models in the unit. Instead, each unit suffers a number of hits equal to the models covered by the line in that unit.

 

Rest assured that the same thing is coming for the English language rulebook- but if you want to continue to roll off and potentially lose entire units to the Death Ray every time it shoots, go ahead. <_<

[Gothical]

And why exactly would you laugh at this Necron player who is bringing in an errata that makes his weapon less powerful? :cuss Sounds like an honorable and friendly opponent to me, someone who I'd shake hands with and thank him for an enjoyable game.

 

This errata negates the interpretation that every unit suffers a number of hits equal to the models in the unit. Instead, each unit suffers a number of hits equal to the models covered by the line in that unit.

 

Rest assured that the same thing is coming for the English language rulebook- but if you want to continue to roll off and potentially lose entire units to the Death Ray every time it shoots, go ahead. <_<

 

I was under the impression that the English codex already says that - perhaps a Spanish FAQ was required because of a translation error?

[Something Wycked]

I was under the impression that the English codex already says that - perhaps a Spanish FAQ was required because of a translation error?

The wording is unclear and could be interpreted either way- we hashed it out in the OR thread here.

 

Edit: More on topic, we still have to be aware that its a pretty killer weapon, potentially covering an 18" line of models. If your models are all bunched up from disembarking a transport, deep striking or assaulting, the effects could be disastrous.

[DerekLee688]

I'm arguing that the rule the errata is "correcting" is the most OP Apocalipse weapon in the regular game of 40k and the "correction" is still only getting half way to where it should be. Each unit/vehicle only takeing one S:10 AP:1 hit despite how many "models" are under the line, just like blood lance.

 

Someone would have to justify to me why should the necron unit I don't have the rules or point values for should have a power/gun/whatever that is that much more powerful than blood lance.

 

If you get 5 models by crossing 4 marines and a land raider, and with a straight face tried to make me take 5x S:10 AP:1 hits to my land raider and 5x MORE S:10 AP:1 hits to each unit those 4 marines blong to, I would pick up my figures and leave the table. Especialy if you paid less than 250 points to get that.

[Something Wycked]

If you get 5 models by crossing 4 marines and a land raider, and with a straight face tried to make me take 5x S:10 AP:1 hits to my land raider and 5x MORE S:10 AP:1 hits to each unit those 4 marines blong to, I would pick up my figures and leave the table. Especialy if you paid less than 250 points to get that.

:cuss <_<

 

That's not what the rule says, amigo, neither did either of my examples. The Land Raider takes a single hit and the unit of Marines takes 4 hits. -_-

[DerekLee688]

Is what I gave not what the Spanish FAQ is clarifying?

 

If it could destroy entire units in single shots, not only would I collect a necron army, but I would use it in every army 500pt. if possible. and every tournament. I would use it on Rogue Tarader era player and 9 year old alike. Not only that, my eyes would be glowing red and I would cakle and laugh maniacaly while crushing all love for the game, because I will have become the Anti-GW incarnate untill the rule was apocalipse only or there were no more tourneys being played and the only games that are being played are friendly where crap like that can only be used with opponent's perimission.

 

:wallbash: Dramatic yes, but I think I've made my point about how OP I think that rule is.

[Something Wycked]

You really didn't read the OR thread, did you? :wallbash:

 

The argument in the OR centered around two interpretations of the rule:

 

1) Each unit with at least one model under the line takes a number of hits equal to the number of models in the unit. (Example: you draw the line across a vehicle and two squads of ten models each- the vehicle takes one hit, each squad takes ten hits.)

 

2) Each unit with at least one model under the line takes a number of hits equal to the number of its models under the line. (Example: Three Marines from one squad of ten are under the line and four Marines from a different squad of ten are under the line; the first unit takes three hits and the second unit takes four hits.)

 

The Spanish FAQ/Errata is clarifying the rule to show that it was originally meant to be interpretation #2- the least powerful interpretation possible. ;)

[DerekLee688]

The "least powerful interpretation possible" would still make it the most earthshattering weapon in the 40K table top game, not counting Apocolapse. Is it even an ordinance weapon?

[breng77]

NOt really it is very fragile, has a random range, and needs to get into range to do any thing (max range is 30 inches to the end of the line)

 

SO while it is possible that it will deepstrike in, drop its line next to a line of marines in BTB in a way where it could hit more than 1 base per inch (so say it hits 36 Marines) it will kill 30.... OMG thats awesome. However it is just as likely that it will be too far away or roll a 3" line.

[DerekLee688]

Well dang, all this time I thought it was some special guy's hand scythe that you could only have one of and not a regular unit that you can take multiples of. In that case it's a totaly reasonable weapon, that will have no negative consquence on friendly games, the tournament scene, or future codexes.

[Something Wycked]

SO while it is possible that it will deepstrike in, drop its line next to a line of marines in BTB in a way where it could hit more than 1 base per inch (so say it hits 36 Marines) it will kill 30.... OMG thats awesome. However it is just as likely that it will be too far away or roll a 3" line.

This is inaccurate- there's no possible way it can hit 36 Marines, or even 30. The line of effect is 3d6", so at most, if you line up 19 Marines base to base in a perfectly straight line AND the Necron player rolls boxcars for his range roll and he starts the line in the center of the first Marine in line, he can hit all 19.

 

Average line of effect will be 9.5" long. If you maintain 2" spacing between all your models, it will hit at most 3 models at a time, less if you field all Terminators. Of course if your models get bunched up for any reason (disembarking, assault, deep strike, etc) then the line can hit considerably more models.

 

While good and powerful, it is not "the most earthshattering weapon in the 40K table top game." A Vindicator's pie plate is more powerful.

[DerekLee688]

Until you draw that line between two tanks.

[DerekLee688]

Doom Scyte= Line between two points (about 12" if I remember correctly), all units (and vehicles) under the line take as many S10 AP1 hits as the're models underneath the line, vehicles hit on the side. Meaning, that you van kill 4 tactical squads at the time with one shot. And it deepstrikes. And it's lets say... a landraider minus 75 points.

 

In the vain attempt to make myself sound less of a blithering idiot, I point out this says nothing of variable range or how said line was drawn. I assumed it was an actual 12" line within the firer's range. The concept of such a non drifting, non variable line can certainly do more damage to mech armies than a single drifting vindicator shell can. As of now I don't know what to think of the unit.

 

It's not unreasonable to believe it will get a 5+ inch line and it can give a clean S:10 AP:1 hit to two or more vehicles without the stipulation of being half strength because of not being under a center dot. If you have a parking lot, rhino rush, multiple Land raiders, any vehicle formation, etc. you're going to have to space everything out at that average 9.5 inches. That might not be that easy on regular boards. This might be a incredable anti bike army weapon, a 9.5 inch line of death would be awful for units with such a large footprint.

[Something Wycked]

Yeah, no worries Derek, its a new codex and everyone's still throwing out rumors they heard, half-read bits of information from the codex, and what Necron players are telling them (after the Necron player glanced through the codex once) as factual. It'll take awhile for the real facts to sift through to the bottom ;) Heck, we still have issues in the OR of people thinking 4th edition rules are still present in 5th edition (myself included :D )

 

For sure this thing is going to be a pain. Its a weapon with powerful numbers on a deep striking, fast skimmer chassis. The ability for the owning player to draw the line any way they want adds a degree of accuracy that we're not used to in 40k- the closest thing to it was Jaws of the World Wolf (and that's still arguably better because it can target specific models, though it can't hurt vehicles.)

 

But it costs almost 200 points, the Necron player can only bring 3 (IIRC- no mention of squadrons of these for a single FOC slot), it has weak armor (no Quantum Shielding), you can still take cover saves against the weapon, and the line is a variable length.

 

We will need to be cautious of this thing and possess a healthy respect for it- and direct some reliable anti-vehicle fire into it at first opportunity :P

[Captain Idaho]

There is a little too much off topic discussion in this thread. If you want to debate the weapon usage, FAQ wording, or GW rulings, then make a post in the appropriate forum please.

 

Let's keep this topic on track and stick to discussing what tactics we can use to defeat Necrons.

 

Many thanks.

[minigun762]

From what we've seen so far, how well does the old standard of "assault them and beat them down in HtH" work?

 

It appears that they have some new CC units but from what I've been able to gather, they aren't really equal to the dedicated assaulters from other armies.

[Something Wycked]

The old standard seems to fit very well. The consensus that is apparently building is that there are only a few "effective" CC units in the codex- but we'll be going before every single Necron unit except Wraiths with the whips that reduce models in BTB to I1. Praetorians, Lychguard and Wraiths are the units to respect in CC- everything else will potentially be like clubbing a baby seal, the way it used to be.

 

From a new conversation in the OR, key things to keep in mind about the new Reanimation Protocols:

1) If a unit with RP is wiped out, none of them get back up. This INCLUDES an IC attached to the destroyed unit.

2) If a unit with RP Falls Back, the RP tokens are removed from the board and are not rolled for.

3) Attacks such as Instant Death, AP1/AP2, Power Weapons, etc. DO NOT prevent a RP roll.

 

To prevent Necrons from getting back up, destroy the unit entirely. If you do not destroy a unit, some of the casualties will be getting back up.

 

Add in the nearly universal weak rear armor for Necron vehicles, and they will also fall to melee more easily than to shooting.

[Captain Idaho]

Not quite regarding the ICs. They are ever living, therefore place a counter where they fall if alone then come back within 3" of said counter at the end of the phase.

 

Therefore a good tactic in assaults is to consolidate around the counter so the IC can't be placed within 3" of the counter. Not easy to do really and situational but worth bearing in mind.

 

It's definitely easier to kill Necrons by assault though. They break just like everyone else and have an awful initiative.

 

Necrons will probably struggle to deal with massed assault units since they lack dedicated anti-transport. Relying on glances is worrying, whilst the heavier stuff should be going for heavier targets, naturally.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Not quite regarding the ICs. They are ever living, therefore place a counter where they fall if alone then come back within 3" of said counter at the end of the phase.

 

Therefore a good tactic in assaults is to consolidate around the counter so the IC can't be placed within 3" of the counter. Not easy to do really and situational but worth bearing in mind.

 

It's definitely easier to kill Necrons by assault though. They break just like everyone else and have an awful initiative.

 

Necrons will probably struggle to deal with massed assault units since they lack dedicated anti-transport. Relying on glances is worrying, whilst the heavier stuff should be going for heavier targets, naturally.

 

A win for BA Jumpers?

[MagicMan]

I can imagine foot-slogging Orks would romp them...

 

 

 

 

Honestly not too excited about the fact that they're another ''Rush your 'shooty' space marines into combat asap and oversee the brawl that ensues'' type of army to beat.

[Captain Idaho]

Not quite regarding the ICs. They are ever living, therefore place a counter where they fall if alone then come back within 3" of said counter at the end of the phase.

 

Therefore a good tactic in assaults is to consolidate around the counter so the IC can't be placed within 3" of the counter. Not easy to do really and situational but worth bearing in mind.

 

It's definitely easier to kill Necrons by assault though. They break just like everyone else and have an awful initiative.

 

Necrons will probably struggle to deal with massed assault units since they lack dedicated anti-transport. Relying on glances is worrying, whilst the heavier stuff should be going for heavier targets, naturally.

 

A win for BA Jumpers?

 

I'd say no. It's the transport heavyarmy which are concern.

 

I can imagine foot-slogging Orks would romp them...

 

Again, I'd say no. Orks with massed Trukks with a Mekboy in the middle are more difficult to beat since all those vehicles get a 4+ cover save. Can't wait for GW to change that piece of wargear...

 

Anyway, an army with some Rhinos, a Landraider and some supporting vehicles will be a problem for Necrons since stopping them all AND the supporting vehicles firing will be challenging.

[MagicMan]

Personally i find the mech'd Orks easier to beat than the foot sloggers.

 

 

The reason : unit size. You can only fit 12 in a Trukk. If they lose two bros, they're taking leadership tests. Against an Ork horde you need to knock 20 Orks out before they stop being fearless, and when you have a bunch of those mobs spread across the board giving no room to maneuvre, getting cover saves from Kans in front, who themselves get a 4+ cover save from the Mek. Well you're in trouble... With the expense of the Necron transports, i think they'll struggle to be maneuvarble enough to get away from the Orks. Especially in a DoW deployment...

[Captain Idaho]

Yes Marines can have an easier time against Orks than Necrons but you forget that just a handful or Orks get more attacks than an entire unit of Necron Warriors!

 

Multiples of light AV transports alongside other armoured units will be a challenge to beat against Necrons, so don't be afraid of taking armoured vehicles against Necrons just because they have Gauss weapons.