Chaos Formation Questions

[Azulz]

Im going to be playing an APOC game this weekend and want to use some formations that I have never used before,im sure Ill come up with more by that time.

 

Ok, so I know some of these are going to be cheesy questions but I figure a closed mouth doesnt get fed so here goes.

 

-Malestrom of Gore, If the lord takes termy armor and deepstrikes , does that mean that the rest of the formation arriving within 12" essentially gets a free deepstrike?

 

-Warp Rift , can the "icon" be destroyed like a front line asset can be destroyed?

if the "icon" is surronded and the demons cant deploy without being within 1" of and enemy , are they destroyed?

can the "icon" be used as guidance for other units that can deepstike during the game?

 

-Cult of Destruction, do these oblits always have to fire at the nearest target or only when the choose to do something other that "shoot" ,,,and fail the roll?

[dswanick]

Im going to be playing an APOC game this weekend and want to use some formations that I have never used before,im sure Ill come up with more by that time.

 

Ok, so I know some of these are going to be cheesy questions but I figure a closed mouth doesnt get fed so here goes.

 

-Malestrom of Gore, If the lord takes termy armor and deepstrikes , does that mean that the rest of the formation arriving within 12" essentially gets a free deepstrike?

Nope. The formation can only deploy by using the rules it has available to all of its models and must do so within the confines of the rules given, so no "free" Deep Strike.

 

-Warp Rift , can the "icon" be destroyed like a front line asset can be destroyed?

The Warp Rift can not be destroyed.

if the "icon" is surronded and the demons cant deploy without being within 1" of and enemy , are they destroyed?

That would follow the current 1.4 FAQ ruling.

can the "icon" be used as guidance for other units that can deepstike during the game?

The way the Warp Rift is worded only the Daemons that are part of the formation may use the Warp Rifts "Icon" capability.

 

-Cult of Destruction, do these oblits always have to fire at the nearest target or only when the choose to do something other that "shoot" ,,,and fail the roll?

Only if they fail their roll to do something other than Shoot.

Enjoy your game of Apoc! :devil:

[Azulz]

Now I can deploy within 6" of the icon so the other player would have to cover alot of ground around it to stop me from using it right?

 

Another question, Stategic Redeployment. Does this asset mean that if a unit is already within 12" of an enemy unit, that it cannot redeploy due to part of its move (the beggining) already being within proximity?

[dswanick]

Now I can deploy within 6" of the icon so the other player would have to cover alot of ground around it to stop me from using it right?

Correct.

 

Another question, Stategic Redeployment. Does this asset mean that if a unit is already within 12" of an enemy unit, that it cannot redeploy due to part of its move (the beggining) already being within proximity?

Correct.

;)

[Leonaides]

i'm not sure but doesn't the warp rift do nasty things to any enemy model within 6" anyway? I seem to remember loosing half a ras unit to having to react to a charge and getting too close to the rift... Or that may have been a battle missions special rule.

[dswanick]

i'm not sure but doesn't the warp rift do nasty things to any enemy model within 6" anyway? I seem to remember loosing half a ras unit to having to react to a charge and getting too close to the rift... Or that may have been a battle missions special rule.

Only Psychers within 24" of a rift, they automatically suffer a Perils attack.

[Leonaides]

Ah - I was kind of right... I was thinking of the 'Invasion' Daemon mission from Battle Missions book - it was confusing me because it was also an apoc game when we played it... In that mission, a central Warp Rift (of up to 12" diameter) instantly destroys any enemy model that moves within 6", so kiting DC becomes an absolute killer.

[Azulz]

Dswanick, you've been a ton of help. Still got more q's

Does eldritch storm work vs super heavies?

 

Also let's say I have the warp rift icon AND null field gen... against eldar w/ghost helms and fortune, how will this work?

[dswanick]

Dswanick, you've been a ton of help. Still got more q's You're welcome.

Does eldritch storm work vs super heavies?

Shoowee, you're really stretching my rules knowledge aren't you? B)

OK, Eldritch Storm against a vehicle is Str 3, hits with an Armor Pen of 3+2d6, and spins a vehicle around. Super-heavies are only affected by Psychic Powers with a strength value so it looks like it will work normally.

 

Also let's say I have the warp rift icon AND null field gen... against eldar w/ghost helms and fortune, how will this work?

Well, it seems to me that :

1. The Farseer will cast Fortune (a psychic power)

2. If within 36" of the Null Field Generator the power will be canceled on a 2+

3. If the Farseer is within 24" of the Warp Rift he will also automatically suffer a Perils of the Warp which can be saved on a 3+.

As an aside, Warp Rift Daemons must enter play within 6" of the Warp Rift and Null Zone Generator prevents Daemons from entering within 12" of itself - so if the two are near each other, the Daemons may be prevented from entering play.

Unless you meant the Farseer has Fortune applied to it already, in which case it shouldn't change anything in the above list because Fortune allows re-rolls of saves but Fortune is not a "Save" in the standard 40K definition of the word (ie there are only three "Saves" in 40K : Armor, Invulnerable, Cover and Fortune ain't any of those). If however your group plays it that Fortune is a "Save" (or if the Eldar FAQ has clarified it as such) then at step three it would allow the Farseer to re-roll his 3+ to prevent the Perils if he failed.

[Azulz]

HOLY CRUD BATMAN

You saw a flaw in my plan that i didn't even see, I totally didnt take into thought that the Null Field Gen prevented daemons from entering :o

 

On another note , I thought the above mentioned scenarion would go like this

-Filthy Xeno tries to use a power, whether he passes or fails the perils come into effect(due to the icon),ghost helm roll is taken,if he fails GH roll then he rolls,fails, rerolls,fail or pass would stand at this point(if its a save perils makes him reroll, if its a fail fortune comes into play)

then, if the test was a fail I woldnt need to worry anymore but seeing as how its Eldar I would like to see the day Runes of Warding doesnt work B), so most likely he will pass the test, I now roll a 2+ to negate the effect.

I think this is how this situation would work?!

[dswanick]

HOLY CRUD BATMAN

You saw a flaw in my plan that i didn't even see, I totally didnt take into thought that the Null Field Gen prevented daemons from entering :D

 

On another note , I thought the above mentioned scenarion would go like this

-Filthy Xeno tries to use a power, whether he passes or fails the perils come into effect(due to the icon),ghost helm roll is taken,if he fails GH roll then he rolls,fails, rerolls,fail or pass would stand at this point(if its a save perils makes him reroll, if its a fail fortune comes into play)

then, if the test was a fail I woldnt need to worry anymore but seeing as how its Eldar I would like to see the day Runes of Warding doesnt work :cuss, so most likely he will pass the test, I now roll a 2+ to negate the effect.

I think this is how this situation would work?!

Hmm, not quite on the highlighted part. As near as I can tell Ghost Helm is not a Save as defined by the Rulebook (Armor, Invulnerable, or Cover) So rules that provide for re-rolls of Saves will not affect the Ghost Helm rule.

If the Farseer taking the Perils passes his Ghost Helm roll, he doesn't have to re-roll - because Perils only requires a re-roll of successful Invulnerable saves, which Ghost Helm is not.

If the Farseer fails his Ghost Helm roll, he doesn't get a re-roll - by RAW the Ghost Helm is not a Save (Armor, Invulnerable, or Cover) therefore Fortune can't allow a re-roll of the die.

[Azulz]

Uh ok, I think I'm a little confused here so lemme get this straight.

 

-All of this "he rolls,fails, rerolls,fail or pass would stand at this point" is me thinking that if a GH roll is failed that they psyker would THEN take his invul saves.(if its a save perils makes him reroll, if its a fail fortune comes into play)

-If he makes the GH roll I understand that there would be no "save" rolls,you just stop, as I aggree that GH is NOT a save., I would then roll for the Null Field Gen..

-This though "If the Farseer fails his Ghost Helm roll, he doesn't get a re-roll - by RAW the Ghost Helm is not a Save (Armor, Invulnerable, or Cover)" confuses me alot, are you telling me that if the GH roll is failed that he automatically takes a wound with NO saves at all?

-This "therefore Fortune can't allow a re-roll of the die" makes sense as GH is not a save.

 

I might be crying over spilt milk here though because now that I think about it, if fortune is up then the NFG if probably gone by now and if it isn't then there is a high probability that the spell (fortune) wouldnt have gone through in the first place.

[dswanick]

Uh ok, I think I'm a little confused here so lemme get this straight.

 

-All of this "he rolls,fails, rerolls,fail or pass would stand at this point" is me thinking that if a GH roll is failed that they psyker would THEN take his invul saves.(if its a save perils makes him reroll, if its a fail fortune comes into play)

-If he makes the GH roll I understand that there would be no "save" rolls,you just stop, as I aggree that GH is NOT a save., I would then roll for the Null Field Gen..

-This though "If the Farseer fails his Ghost Helm roll, he doesn't get a re-roll - by RAW the Ghost Helm is not a Save (Armor, Invulnerable, or Cover)" confuses me alot, are you telling me that if the GH roll is failed that he automatically takes a wound with NO saves at all?

-This "therefore Fortune can't allow a re-roll of the die" makes sense as GH is not a save.

 

I might be crying over spilt milk here though because now that I think about it, if fortune is up then the NFG if probably gone by now and if it isn't then there is a high probability that the spell (fortune) wouldnt have gone through in the first place.

Hmm, didn't realize you were including a seperate Invulnerable save in there...

Yes, if the unit has both a Helm and a seperate Invul save he can get both, and will have to re-roll a successful Inv. per the Perils rule.

 

Damn P.E.F. and their "I have a special rule for every occasion, and can force re-rolls of re-rolls of other peoples successful or unsuccessful rolls any time I feel like it...so just roll some dice and I'll tell you if you're permitted to accomplish what you set out to do." ;)

[Azulz]

I asked this in an APOC thread but no answers probably due to the wrong area to ask this ,

-if the daemons from Warp Rift cant come in till turn 2 , and I have 5 units in reserves counting the WR formation , does that count as one of my units in reserves for determining what is "half"? Also do you round up or down ?

[dswanick]

I asked this in an APOC thread but no answers probably due to the wrong area to ask this ,

-if the daemons from Warp Rift cant come in till turn 2 , and I have 5 units in reserves counting the WR formation , does that count as one of my units in reserves for determining what is "half"? Also do you round up or down ?

1. Per the Strategic Reserve rules on Pg.23, up to one half of your Strategic Reserves (rounded up) are deployed on turn two and the rest on turn three.

2. Per the Deploying Battle Formations rules insert on Pg.101, a Formation counts as a single unit for Reserve Deployment.

So in your example, you will deploy up to three units turn two and the remainder turn three counting the entire Warp Rift formation as one of the units deployed.

[Azulz]

Wow , am I really that blind? I knew each formation counted as 1 unit , just didnt see the part about rounding up. The only part that really confused me was since the Warp Rift cant come in till 2nd turn, if they actually counted as part of my reserves for determining what is half on the first turn.

Also this should work well seeing as how Lords of the Black Crusade will let me bring them in on the first turn!