Missile Spam Done

[MalachiOfRuss]

The thread has drifted a little bit, so let me try reiterating my thought.

 

With the strength of the Mech Guard build with its AV12+ vehicles, combined with GK and their (mostly) AV12+ vehicles (Chimera and Dreds) or Terminator heavy builds, and now Necrons coming out with AV12+ vehicles, I think that the "old standby" of going all-missiles, nothing but missiles, all the time, is not the most effective load-out for Long Fangs going forward.

[Simo429]

The thread has drifted a little bit, so let me try reiterating my thought.

 

With the strength of the Mech Guard build with its AV12+ vehicles, combined with GK and their (mostly) AV12+ vehicles (Chimera and Dreds) or Terminator heavy builds, and now Necrons coming out with AV12+ vehicles, I think that the "old standby" of going all-missiles, nothing but missiles, all the time, is not the most effective load-out for Long Fangs going forward.

I haven't seen many grey knight armies with mostly chimeras, they tend to take rhinos for the psychic powers.

 

But it still comes back to the point raised, you are talking about specific builds, yeah in a one of game you could tailor your army, if however you take the same army no matter what the opponent the missile launcher remains your best friend because they give you options, if you need to worry about popping heavy armour you have the melta. If you are worried about nailing terminators you have pure weight of fire, melta and power weapons.

 

And I'm not really sure why you are mentioning mech guard, they are hardly new and they really don't like facing 15 missile launchers plus a couple of las cannons from razorbacks.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

While I generally squeeze a couple of lascannon into my Long Fang pack, Necrons aren't going to cause me much grief as it stands. My biker lists will be rolling towards the 'Crons, so multi-melta and melta will deal with armour, while tooled command squads eat their troops. My Wolves will be doing the usual mid-field close quarters shooting and destruction.

 

One penetrating hit on a 'Cron vehicle and they're armour 11. They're a floating Rhino.

 

Props to Mat Ward for creating an interesting army out of a not so interesting army (and I want that plastic overlord from the command barge) but after a few weeks of "sheesh, that's new" we'll settle into the new paradigm.

[Wysten]

I don't think it's really going anywhere, sincer marine armies still make up 50% of the total codexes, hence missle spam will have it's mark. The real importent thing to notice with them is not that they kill, but can reliably stun and shake up anything above 11av and is flexable to blast infantry and mech with equal efficency, something that the other options offer in varied degrees. (Heavy Bolter is a cheap option, Plasma Cannon heavily favours anti infantry, Lascannnon favours heavily mech with a addtional gigantic 15 price tag, and mult meltas are not worth it on Long Fangs)

 

It's not that missles on Long Fangs are out of favour. It's just they alone have never been able to pull it's weight as they simply provide part of the damage range. Missles are as general as you can get, they are designed to supress and fill gaps in the way only strenght 8 ap3 can. A direct hits instant kills the common marine threat, frag shot rips into hordes good enough and strength 8 will probably wreak 10 to 11 av, and probably reliably shake up stuff above that. Could be worth mixing a lascannon in, but I don't think anything really needs to change since missles still do what they are designed to do. Just got to make sure the rest of the army can compensate for what it lacks.

[the jeske]

why would people drop from 15 LF to 10 LF ? I mean you dont get FnP for them they are not 2W each runing 10 only gives an illusion of being better at anti tank because after the first turn of taking fire the lascanons will be worse and not just against necrons . If anything it will just mean people will play with fewer razors and LF in the 2xlas 3xRL set up . Or If they realy worry about night fight , they will switch back to TWC builds that were so popular when SW came out .

 

the problem with SW is not the 3x LF with RL , its the lack of units to fill in their job . no MM attack bikes , speeders are RL too so no change [and against necron they die even faster then LF because of AV10] etc.

[Captain Idaho]

Well either way it helps balance the game. Same amount of Long Fangs but with more expensive weapons? That means less "other stuff" to contend with.

 

Oh and reliably shaking and stunning stuff isn't too good an option against Necrons and Grey Knights and even 5 Missile Launchers will struggle to glance a Landraider, which doesn't care about being stunned if it has extra armour or wants to shoot.

 

Sure there is the likelihood of facing Marines 50% of the time, but consider a tournament scene for a moment. The best players end up playing each other in most tournaments, which means the builds which hurt Long Fang SW ML armies are going to be up there. If you want to win your games you will likely be playing them.

 

At the recent ToS Event 1 the top armies were actually quite varied but there weren't many SW up there and I believe it's because the best SW players went with Missile spam and played themselves out the game. In fact, there were a few of us balanced Space Marines players and aDeathwing up there and even a Tau player without a single Kroot and loads of Firewarriors who won all 5 games.

 

So if you want to have a very good advantage against 50-75% of games with a missile spam but struggle against the rest then that's fine, but I would rather win all my games! Lol

 

jeske is probably right in the likely build of Long Fangs (2LC, 3ML) going forward, but I can't imagine competetive players would sacrifice more of their army to keep 3 gunline units which are becoming more and more vulnerable as each Codex goes by.

[the jeske]

it realy doesnt take a lot to change the set up to las/RL from just RL they will just run a las/plas razor less in their builds . doesnt change the way the meta game works for non necron armies [maybe for draigo wings because those 6 lascanons do change the match up a bit , but that is more or less it].

 

jeske is probably right in the likely build of Long Fangs (2LC, 3ML) going forward, but I can't imagine competetive players would sacrifice more of their army to keep 3 gunline units which are becoming more and more vulnerable as each Codex goes by.

but they cant realy switch to TWC builds , because they will have size model problems all the time because there are no legal TWC models right now . + the edition is nearing its end I no where see how SW players going to start rebuilding their armies from scratch just to play for 9-10 months max. We had that when codex chaos came out in 4th . combi armed terminators were scoring back then and awesome , but most chaos player didnt own any , so they didnt buy new ones and there were few people actualy using them [yeah I know I was one of them , but I had tons of old chaos termis from 2ed].

Am looking at this from a non SW players point of view . changing the army to 2las/3RL and one less razorback does not change the way SW play against nids , chaos [which I play] . it doesnt change the way it works against other meq armies [with maybe a slight buff against draigo wing , but am not sure that would have to be tested] .

 

also remeber If it is true that necron will be the bane of MSU meq gunline , then it just made IG non viable to play with . marines of all kind can switch to short range or assault builds , IG has only the gunline [in two versions mecha and sloggor but still the game play is all about shoting]. Am not sure If I would want to see necrons kill off 2 types of armies , just to make necron player viable in tournaments .

 

As SW goes , if they realy realy worry about necrons they may always switch two units to pod ones and load up on melta . IMO necrons are a lot like DE [at least from the testing we did] , sure they punish elite builds and they punish horde , but the build they have are very limited , unlike SW or GK which had actual different armies with different game play out of the same dex [or space marines if one counts khan/biker builds] , the necron have to take the night fight dude , they have to flat out turn one . they get punished a lot if they are on the table and start [like DE ] etc .

[Wulfebane]

but they cant realy switch to TWC builds , because they will have size model problems all the time because there are no legal TWC models right now .

 

There's more than two ways to play Space Wolves.

 

..and as to the "no legal TWC models", there is still Canis. Anything modeled to be on par with Canis' size/basing is justifiably legal to proxy until GW makes an actual model because Canis IS a legal TWC model.

 

I agree with the drop pods/melta gun suggestion, mainly b/c this is pretty much what I do already. I daresay I seldom hear of anyone taking less than one melta gun per GH pack (unless they have a token plasma pack or two), and melta scouts/speeders are still very prominent.

 

Due to the 'crons I2, imo anything that puts you into CC with them (other than those elite cc units) are like sending trees through a wood chipper. Also, we'll fair better against them versus other armies due to our acute senses. Their new abilities to lengthen or even induce Night conditions so they can advance further will barely hinder us.

 

 

 

And ALWAYS take one (or three!) RPs with JotWW against Necrons in my opinion.

[fivepointedstar]

Just outta curiosity don't open topped vehicles get "+1'ed" on the damage rolls? Wouldn't this give the advantage to use spam LF's, and or Devs. Alternativly the rifleman dreads has been the second "bees knees" in a Space Wolf list.

[Grimtooth]

Relying on any one type of weapon is a recipe for disaster in most cases. An army with Lascannons is more effective than one with Missile Launchers on the whole at punching through heavy armour and heavy infantry and can be backed up by melta weapons for when opponents get too close etc. An army with Missile Launchers will have worse performance even if it uses similar numbers of melta weapon back up.

 

What fast av 13 vehicle are we worried about? If anything, a fast av 13 vehicle will be a transport vehicle thus moving towards said melta guns. With the change to Living Metal, I am not so worried about Monoliths anymore either.

 

Not sure if the Ghost Ark is fast anyway, but I hear rumours the Catacomb Command Barge was.

 

Regardless, an open topped Skimmer needs to be taken out early to avoid a charge or massed rapid fire attack. Doing that with Missile Launchers is more difficult than Lascannons. Given the spam nature of many Space Wolves lists I wouldn't be over confident regarding being able to deal with the assault elements of Necrons, since they have some tough customers in there.

 

Review of other competetive choices we can see things like Dreadknights also that can shunt on turn one and get a guaranteed turn 2 charge. They have armour 2+ and aren't scared of massed Missile Launcher Long Fangs a bit. 2 in an opposing list will hurt you, especially if there are Terminators there also.

 

Stick to your massed Missile Launchers if you want, if it works for you then great. I've just seen far too many Space Wolves get smashed by their own paper-rock-scissors army building.

 

I get the feeling if YOU played SW, you would be in a real bind. You have continued to point out that missile launchers are junk against heavy armor and heavy infantry. The point that you still fail to realize is that missile launchers were NEVER used against heavy armor or heavy infantry. There is no change in the meta-game with Necrons to force a departure from missile launchers. Missile launchers have always been horde/transport busters. Volume of fire with frags are even effective against terminators.

 

Seriously, if anyone before the Necron codex hit was trying to take out Land Raiders with missile launchers, they were failing to use them properly. I fire on Land Raiders when there is absolutely NOTHING left for my Long Fangs to use their missile launchers and even then it is if my meltas have not already fried said Land Raiders.

[Bradimus Prime]

I have to say there are some good points made from both sides re missile spam. I for one have used missile spam a lot, since the codex was release to be precise. Its not something I have really enjoyed doing but since I play competitively I took them because they did the job.

 

Recently my style of list has changed and I now run a less spammy Loganwing/Mech hybrid list, my long range AT consists of

 

Logan + Wolf Guard Squad with 2 CML’s (Tank Hunting)

6 Long Fangs with 5 missile Launchers

6 Long Fangs with 3 Missiles and 2 Lascannons

5 man Wolf Guard Pack with a CML

 

All in all it fires 14 missiles a turn albeit 4 of those are at +1 to penetrate and then 2 Lascannon shots. In the last few tournaments that I have attended the lack of AP2 has been a thorn in my side especially now Dark Angel and Black Templar Terminators are more abundant not to mention Grey Knights.

 

However, having declared my need for AP2 I have to remember that the popularity of Rhino’s/Razorbacks has not dropped and the amount of AV11 hulls flying around is still high so I am not willing to drop the humble missile completely. I have been thinking to drop a Long fang from the missile squad and use the points to purchase a further two Lascannons, it will reduce the stamina of the unit and I will lose a missile shot but I think its something I can live with.

So for roughly the same cost (I’m at work so cannot work the points out) my AT would look like this:-

 

Logan + Wolf Guard Squad with 2 CML’s (Tank Hunting)

6 Long Fangs with 3 Missiles and 2 Lascannons

5 Long Fangs with 2 Missiles and 2 Lascannons

5 man Wolf Guard Pack with a CML

 

I’m not sure how Necrons will change my Long Fang set up so I won’t comment on the upcoming release but as it stands at the minute the extra AP2 will come in dead handy. I am attending a tournament in a couple of weeks where 14 out of 50 players are taking Grey Knights and I have a feeling it will be needing it.

[Captain Idaho]

I get the feeling if YOU played SW, you would be in a real bind. You have continued to point out that missile launchers are junk against heavy armor and heavy infantry. The point that you still fail to realize is that missile launchers were NEVER used against heavy armor or heavy infantry. There is no change in the meta-game with Necrons to force a departure from missile launchers. Missile launchers have always been horde/transport busters. Volume of fire with frags are even effective against terminators.

 

Seriously, if anyone before the Necron codex hit was trying to take out Land Raiders with missile launchers, they were failing to use them properly. I fire on Land Raiders when there is absolutely NOTHING left for my Long Fangs to use their missile launchers and even then it is if my meltas have not already fried said Land Raiders.

 

But my point was there are very few melta platforms in many of the tournament Space Wolf lists, and they generally end up being an unfortunate Grey Hunter unit which is vulnerable in DoW or to canny opponents etc and a Kill Point liability.

 

Lascannons bust vehicles just as well as Missile Launchers (better in fact) and are the magic AP2. They provide an option at range that doesn't necessitate suicide units.

 

It's only my experience of course, I just have seen the problems in tournaments of Missile spamming.

[Blacksad]

few melta platforms??? practicaly every GH unit wields 2 meltas (albeit one combi), land speeders, droppod dreads, scouts, and if a Land Raider is fielded, it's usualy with a MM aswell.

 

Lasscannons imo are overpriced. to glance a landraider with a Lasscannon you need a roll of a five, over the roll of a 6 for a ML, that's not much of a difference. as to AP2, pffff... plasmacannons are much better at killing TDA and the likes than a lasscannon could ever be.

 

for Landraiders, which don't get fielded all that much, it's not worth the price you pay for a lasscannon. I then prefer my Land Speeders, scouts, or grey hunters (or droppodding dread) or even more fun: TWC with thunderhammer / iron priests on TWC, or meltabombs

 

for TDA you have a much better option in plasmacannons, which are 5 pts cheaper a piece.

 

when I play games over 1000 pts, I take a pack of missile fangs, and a pack of plasma fangs. combined with the grey hunter's meltaguns, and the Wolfguard combi-meltas, that's enough. Every unit is specialised, but adequate in taking on other units if their primary targets don't get fielded, or are dead already. with plasmacannons and missiles, you can take out low armour vehicles, marines, hordes and terminators, aswell as monsters and walkers. what's left? AV14 vehicles. eighter evade them, or sneak up on them with melta.

[Wysten]

Well either way it helps balance the game. Same amount of Long Fangs but with more expensive weapons? That means less "other stuff" to contend with.

 

Oh and reliably shaking and stunning stuff isn't too good an option against Necrons and Grey Knights and even 5 Missile Launchers will struggle to glance a Landraider, which doesn't care about being stunned if it has extra armour or wants to shoot.

 

Sure there is the likelihood of facing Marines 50% of the time, but consider a tournament scene for a moment. The best players end up playing each other in most tournaments, which means the builds which hurt Long Fang SW ML armies are going to be up there. If you want to win your games you will likely be playing them.

 

At the recent ToS Event 1 the top armies were actually quite varied but there weren't many SW up there and I believe it's because the best SW players went with Missile spam and played themselves out the game. In fact, there were a few of us balanced Space Marines players and aDeathwing up there and even a Tau player without a single Kroot and loads of Firewarriors who won all 5 games.

 

So if you want to have a very good advantage against 50-75% of games with a missile spam but struggle against the rest then that's fine, but I would rather win all my games! Lol

 

jeske is probably right in the likely build of Long Fangs (2LC, 3ML) going forward, but I can't imagine competetive players would sacrifice more of their army to keep 3 gunline units which are becoming more and more vulnerable as each Codex goes by.

 

Depends.

 

Against Grey Knights, they have almost no firepower which goes beyond 24 inches, aside from the dreadnorts which every build should be strongly considering. 24 inches is their sweet spot beyond the dreadnorts, hence missles would be useful in that matchup. If only to force the knights to take wounds by sheer force of saves. In truth, aside from investing in combat units or Thunderwolf, I don't think Space Wolves have enough reason to change up. Largely because upping the combat pressence means theres more for the 24 psycannons to shoot at.

 

Necrons I don't know you. I heard of them and they could be potent, but while they have a lot of powerful weapons, a large amount of their stuff is actually geared towards anti-infantry, is quite short ranged, or quite expensive. The cost of their transports make spam harder, and again, the weakness of all Xero is that they simply don't have melta. Of course though, they have a number of fantastic anti tank as well, which again, helps makes long fangs viable in the sense that they are infantry.

 

Largely because every heavy slot doesn't quite offer the firepower, (Whirlwinds) nothing sangicantly different that long fangs can offer. (Pred) or Vindies (Short ranged, which again limits the range of space wolves army.) The heavy slot is fairly limited in what it offers in compersion to other codexes in that none of the heavy slot is all that mobile, aside from stripped down preds. Hence the question isn't "is missle spam dead" but rather "what would fill the spot as well as the long fangs have?" Squading up Flamer/Melta Landspeeders, Scouts, Dreads, Lone Wolves making Thunderwolf Packs are the only other fiesable routes. Only the former two really fill the role of fangs

 

 

Indeed, I believe a few changes is grand, but in all honesty, between the Grey Hunters, Long Fangs, Speeders and other support options, there is a satisfying mix of abilitys ready to go. 540 points for 15 is as cheap as GK's get their dreadnorts for without distracting from the key focus. From there, they will either be doing the general lifting while the more specalised units do their work. Urgent threats by Melta, hordes and tough threats by Flanking scouts/Speeders. and everything else by the gloryious wieght of Rhinos and Hunters. Ready to take the fight to the foes of mankind. Issue is, aside from more point and packing the already crowded elite/Fast attack, or putting even more troops on the field, what else could be done? Because space wolf armies have quite a rigid, dense structure that isn't as flexable in the terms of lists that can be produced in the same vain as, say, blood angels or the Dark Eldar.

[hendrik]

are we still arguing about this? to find out what's the best? every wolf hunts on his own and there will never be a "best" choice!

why?

because we'll never be facing the same lists. some of you might face the heavy armour lists more often then only medium armour. sure you'll find only being able to rely on meltaguns not enough, especially if that means sending your entire grey hunter pack after a thing only one of them can hurt. what of those that face nid armies the whole time, surely they'll prefer the missile launcher over a lascannon everyday.

both weapons are reliable and good. they just serve another purpose. arguing about it is like arguing about which is best, a knife or a spoon to eat your dinner...

[Wysten]

are we still arguing about this? to find out what's the best? every wolf hunts on his own and there will never be a "best" choice!

why?

because we'll never be facing the same lists. some of you might face the heavy armour lists more often then only medium armour. sure you'll find only being able to rely on meltaguns not enough, especially if that means sending your entire grey hunter pack after a thing only one of them can hurt. what of those that face nid armies the whole time, surely they'll prefer the missile launcher over a lascannon everyday.

both weapons are reliable and good. they just serve another purpose. arguing about it is like arguing about which is best, a knife or a spoon to eat your dinner...

 

Exactly. The answer is that naither the melta nor the missle has it covered. But between both and the heavy flamer and the heart(s) of (super)men, there is few naither can cover.

 

Personally, can't wait to build a thunderwolf with hammer, the math hammer be dammed, I will eat the foes of the imperium with the spork of RUSS! 1 Strength 10 hit at a time. XD

[eyeslikethunder]

Whether or not all missile LF will work for you depends on what you have in your list to support them. If you have LC from RB's or dreads and MM on your LS's . Then I do not see where the problem will be. If your missile LF's are your only antitank you are going to struggle in certain games. But the space wolf list I see normally see have high AP antitank weapons spread throughout the army be it RB's, LS's, scouts, dreads or TWC. So I dont see the end of the missile LF yet.

 

nb I do take 1 LC n my LF squads

[Simo429]

I get the feeling if YOU played SW, you would be in a real bind. You have continued to point out that missile launchers are junk against heavy armor and heavy infantry. The point that you still fail to realize is that missile launchers were NEVER used against heavy armor or heavy infantry. There is no change in the meta-game with Necrons to force a departure from missile launchers. Missile launchers have always been horde/transport busters. Volume of fire with frags are even effective against terminators.

 

Seriously, if anyone before the Necron codex hit was trying to take out Land Raiders with missile launchers, they were failing to use them properly. I fire on Land Raiders when there is absolutely NOTHING left for my Long Fangs to use their missile launchers and even then it is if my meltas have not already fried said Land Raiders.

 

But my point was there are very few melta platforms in many of the tournament Space Wolf lists, and they generally end up being an unfortunate Grey Hunter unit which is vulnerable in DoW or to canny opponents etc and a Kill Point liability.

 

Lascannons bust vehicles just as well as Missile Launchers (better in fact) and are the magic AP2. They provide an option at range that doesn't necessitate suicide units.

 

It's only my experience of course, I just have seen the problems in tournaments of Missile spamming.

I don't see this at all,

 

the majority of space wolf lists at tournaments have a core of grey hunters who all have melta, wolf guard who all have melta and then either scouts or speeders which again have melta

 

I don't run small units and I get 10 in my list, a friend gets 16.

 

To suggest there isn't as many melta platforms in the majority of competitive wolf lists is just plain wrong. This year I have been to 6 major tournaments in the UK and seen over 8 meltas in every wolf list I have come against when playing at 1500 points or over.

[Captain Idaho]

I get the feeling if YOU played SW, you would be in a real bind. You have continued to point out that missile launchers are junk against heavy armor and heavy infantry. The point that you still fail to realize is that missile launchers were NEVER used against heavy armor or heavy infantry. There is no change in the meta-game with Necrons to force a departure from missile launchers. Missile launchers have always been horde/transport busters. Volume of fire with frags are even effective against terminators.

 

Seriously, if anyone before the Necron codex hit was trying to take out Land Raiders with missile launchers, they were failing to use them properly. I fire on Land Raiders when there is absolutely NOTHING left for my Long Fangs to use their missile launchers and even then it is if my meltas have not already fried said Land Raiders.

 

But my point was there are very few melta platforms in many of the tournament Space Wolf lists, and they generally end up being an unfortunate Grey Hunter unit which is vulnerable in DoW or to canny opponents etc and a Kill Point liability.

 

Lascannons bust vehicles just as well as Missile Launchers (better in fact) and are the magic AP2. They provide an option at range that doesn't necessitate suicide units.

 

It's only my experience of course, I just have seen the problems in tournaments of Missile spamming.

I don't see this at all,

 

the majority of space wolf lists at tournaments have a core of grey hunters who all have melta, wolf guard who all have melta and then either scouts or speeders which again have melta

 

I don't run small units and I get 10 in my list, a friend gets 16.

 

To suggest there isn't as many melta platforms in the majority of competitive wolf lists is just plain wrong. This year I have been to 6 major tournaments in the UK and seen over 8 meltas in every wolf list I have come against when playing at 1500 points or over.

 

I consider squeezing 10 Meltas into a Space Wolf army very close ranged oriented so it doesn't really change my main point - Lascannons and Vindicators are the best option for SW to deal with Landraiders at range.

 

Relying on close ranged Meltas to deal with Necrons, borne by troops in AV11 platforms, will be a problem as you become reactive as soon as they start firing at you.

[Simo429]

I get the feeling if YOU played SW, you would be in a real bind. You have continued to point out that missile launchers are junk against heavy armor and heavy infantry. The point that you still fail to realize is that missile launchers were NEVER used against heavy armor or heavy infantry. There is no change in the meta-game with Necrons to force a departure from missile launchers. Missile launchers have always been horde/transport busters. Volume of fire with frags are even effective against terminators.

 

Seriously, if anyone before the Necron codex hit was trying to take out Land Raiders with missile launchers, they were failing to use them properly. I fire on Land Raiders when there is absolutely NOTHING left for my Long Fangs to use their missile launchers and even then it is if my meltas have not already fried said Land Raiders.

 

But my point was there are very few melta platforms in many of the tournament Space Wolf lists, and they generally end up being an unfortunate Grey Hunter unit which is vulnerable in DoW or to canny opponents etc and a Kill Point liability.

 

Lascannons bust vehicles just as well as Missile Launchers (better in fact) and are the magic AP2. They provide an option at range that doesn't necessitate suicide units.

 

It's only my experience of course, I just have seen the problems in tournaments of Missile spamming.

I don't see this at all,

 

the majority of space wolf lists at tournaments have a core of grey hunters who all have melta, wolf guard who all have melta and then either scouts or speeders which again have melta

 

I don't run small units and I get 10 in my list, a friend gets 16.

 

To suggest there isn't as many melta platforms in the majority of competitive wolf lists is just plain wrong. This year I have been to 6 major tournaments in the UK and seen over 8 meltas in every wolf list I have come against when playing at 1500 points or over.

 

I consider squeezing 10 Meltas into a Space Wolf army very close ranged oriented so it doesn't really change my main point - Lascannons and Vindicators are the best option for SW to deal with Landraiders at range.

 

Relying on close ranged Meltas to deal with Necrons, borne by troops in AV11 platforms, will be a problem as you become reactive as soon as they start firing at you.

You don't need to deal with a land raider at distance, i don't know anyone that would ever take a vindicator or las cannons for that purpose that's the point, nothing will consistently destroy it so why bother? Ignore it until it comes close enough to kill it,

 

As Ramses has pointed out its about using the right tools for the job, the strength of a space wolf list is still controlling the midfield, if necrons or anything want to bring their weight of fire to bare this means entering that midfield where wolves are at their most dangerous.

[eyeslikethunder]

I consider squeezing 10 Meltas into a Space Wolf army very close ranged oriented so it doesn't really change my main point - Lascannons and Vindicators are the best option for SW to deal with Landraiders at range.

 

Relying on close ranged Meltas to deal with Necrons, borne by troops in AV11 platforms, will be a problem as you become reactive as soon as they start firing at you.

 

Not sure you have do much squeezing to get 10 meltas. I ve got 12 at 1500 without really thinking how to squeeze them in. Space wolves are a reactive army who dominate midfield. That is their strength they can win through reaction rather than setting the terms like the faster more mobile armies.