march10k Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Trazyn the Infinite is a preserver of histories, artefacts and events. In his possession are technologies and relics that are so valuable as to be priceless. Amongst his collection are the fabled wraithbone choir of Altansar, the preserved head of Sebastian Thor, the ossified husk of an Enslaver and a giant man clad in baroque power armour. So, basically, he's in the private collection of a necron archaeologist...? If he's the giant man in question, of course, there are other possible suspects.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Ummm... Isn't the Lion supposed to be in the bowels of the Rock? Now where did I put my keys... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915039 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 That's one theory...one rumor is as good as another... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus25 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Ummm... Isn't the Lion supposed to be in the bowels of the Rock? Now where did I put my keys... No, thats Luther who is in the Rock Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915046 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Codex Angels of Death p.14 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Lions in the rock buddy ;) its prolly some other loyalist primarch! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 The Lion definitely slumbers in a chamber in the Rock, unknown to anyone in the Unforgiven. Trazyn doesn't have our Primarch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
puck Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Cap's got it right. in C:AOD they talk about the Lion being "asleep" at the center of the rock and no one knows but the Watchers who presumably care for him. I've always wondered how that was supposed to happen though. Big L:"Hey guys I'm going to poke Luther with a stick for a while." Guys:"Ok boss oh make sure you're back for the burning of the Heretics at 3 there's gonna be cookies afterward" Big L:"Yeah sure don't worry" Heritics are burned and cookies are consumed Later... Guys ask a Watcher:"Have you seen a really big dude carrying a stick around here?" Watcher vanishes in a puff of smoke and everyone just says "Oh well"? I've always found it hard to believe that a chapter as obsessed with finding people as the DA's are would just decline to look for their Primarch in their own fortress. Even though its a huge place, finding a primarch inside the volume of a planet should be child's play compared to finding individual traitors throughout all of space and time... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Semper Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I think the consensus currently is Corax... If it is even a Primarch. Definetely not the Lion though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I'm going to derail this thread just a bit further, but... Has the relationship between Watchers and Dark Angels ever been explored? There ought to be a -very- good reason for the DAs to tolerate Xenos in their fortress monastery, their caring for the Lion aside... And even their caring for the Lion raises a lot of questions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 They were the native sentient species of caliban? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viray Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Cap's got it right. in C:AOD they talk about the Lion being "asleep" at the center of the rock and no one knows but the Watchers who presumably care for him. I've always wondered how that was supposed to happen though. Big L:"Hey guys I'm going to poke Luther with a stick for a while." Guys:"Ok boss oh make sure you're back for the burning of the Heretics at 3 there's gonna be cookies afterward" Big L:"Yeah sure don't worry" Heritics are burned and cookies are consumed Later... Guys ask a Watcher:"Have you seen a really big dude carrying a stick around here?" Watcher vanishes in a puff of smoke and everyone just says "Oh well"? I've always found it hard to believe that a chapter as obsessed with finding people as the DA's are would just decline to look for their Primarch in their own fortress. Even though its a huge place, finding a primarch inside the volume of a planet should be child's play compared to finding individual traitors throughout all of space and time... The Lion was gone by the time the Dark Angels found Luther after the pair's duel. He did not get lost in the fortress; he was taken away by the Watchers after Caliban was torn asunder. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 They were the native sentient species of caliban? Precisely because of that reason they would be exterminated by the Imperium. <_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915109 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Blaire Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 It's very likely that they don't really seem to be Xenos, and I'm not entirely sure that the Dark Angels are really on that big a hunt to find out who they are. I don't think that anyone in the Chapter actually knows what they are. I want to do a re-read, but wasn't Zahariel the only person other than the Lion to really have any described interaction with them? I don't think we even truly know if the Emperor knows anything about them, they may be capable of keeping secrets from even him (or he actually knows exactly what they are and figures they must have something of value to keep them around for... They did seem to indicate they were a part of the Cabal once, IIRC, maybe the Emperor wanted something from them). As far as the Lion and finding him, I doubt they even can. His resting place is likely completely disconnected from any passages in the Rock, he's either in some sort of psychically induced coma or in some kind of stasis pod with an internal power source (and is possibly even designed to wake him up at X time or upon X occurrence) and he's probably completely shrouded from sensors, psychic detection and the like (wasn't the assassins' cabal meeting room set up that way in the HH series?). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915149 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Master Neo Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I want to do a re-read, but wasn't Zahariel the only person other than the Lion to really have any described interaction with them? correct. don't remember the exact wording but he gets a sensation that they could kill him in an instant if he didn't do what was right so my guess would be that they live side by side with them out of respect for the power they wield Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alys Dwr Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 The Emperor saw all the future had in store and everything he did was in the best interests of the Imperium, we are not to question his motives. Faith is our shield and will deliver us. That neither He nor the Lion combatted the watchers must demonstrate their position as a force of good in the grand scheme. Without them to carry the Lion away, who knows what may have happened - he may have been slain outright. That he exists today in stasis allows for the chance that he will one day rise again and lead the Unforgiven as a unified force and strike a decisive blow against the enemies of man. I got the impression that the watchers are warp entities but not akin to the chaotic daemons we are used to. Perhaps something far older and wiser than even the necrons. As an aside, i love the Trazyn model. Don't play necrons but i am very tempted to get one merely to paint it up and have it sitting pretty on my shelf. Al Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I actually think he is in the Tower of Angels, as it says somewhere(can't remember) that no Dark Angel goes in there, and they have no idea what is inside. So it seems logical that he would be in there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915354 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viray Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I actually think he is in the Tower of Angels, as it says somewhere(can't remember) that no Dark Angel goes in there, and they have no idea what is inside. So it seems logical that he would be in there. I'm pretty sure it says somewhere that the Lion is sleeping deep within the Rock itself. Otherwise, ti would seem rather silly of the Dark Angels to have lost their Primarch solely on the merit of failing to check his last known location. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Sergeant Bohemond Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I actually think he is in the Tower of Angels, as it says somewhere(can't remember) that no Dark Angel goes in there Wait...why would we not go into our own Fortress?? it seems really weird we have a floating home...and we choose to live outside it?? And, wasn't the whole fortress destroyed, or at least huge parts of it? I always assumed the Tower was rebuilt and the 'Tower of Angels' refers to the whole rock, ie: Asteroid plus Tower/Fortress Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915429 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Is not the Tower of Angels where they take The Fallen to be interrogated? That would of course mean that most DA don't go in there because they are not allowed to go in there, not that none go in there. As to the Lion, he lies within the bowels of The Rock, somewhere, but not in the deep dungeons where Luthor is keep in a stasis vault(as per the 2E Codex: Angels of Death). As to the Watchers, they are powerful xenos psykers, beyond the feeble powers of Librarians to reveal/understand their true nature. They protected Caliban against the influence of Chaos(not all that well mind you, considering the Beasts, but perhaps that was be design too), and for whatever reason continue to show an interest in the DA/The Rock. We know what they are, but the DA may not know their true nature as xenos psykers. If I recall correctly, this info on the Watchers is revealed in Descent of Angels. It may also be a conglomeration of info from multiple sources though. I can't recall. :devil: The Necrons don't have the Lion though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
EPK Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 A "giant man" could presumably be a Space Marine as well.... but one of the Lost Primarchs, now that would be something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915700 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForTheLion Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 actually according to the latest codex, no one does walk the halls of the fortress as they see it as hallowed ground. But then again the Lion is said to be in the deepest chamber of the rock. However is our codex gets "warded", im pretty sure miracles will happen Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WatchCaptainAzrael Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 However is our codex gets "warded", im pretty sure miracles will happen If the next codex gets "warded", conjecture about the Lion's resting place is the least of our worries. He would become Guilliman's pupil, to whom he owed all his military victories before and after rejoining his Legion. No I didn't make a mistake, I meant everything I said in the previous sentence. :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_son_of_Dorn Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Would like to think its Ferrus in the necrons hands. after all he is one with the dragon shard and it may help him grow back a new head :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2915908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
krewl Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Would like to think its Ferrus in the necrons hands. after all he is one with the dragon shard and it may help him grow back a new head :( Ferrus Manus of the Iron hands is the most likely one here due to the silver hands, and dragon that he slew and the tech preference Iron hands have anyways, replacing failing flesh with steel and iron (Remind you of any xenos metalic race you know...) , but more primarchs have been lost (loyal and some chaos) so it could be anyone or even just a really big ogrin in power armour ;) The Lion definately sleeps in the rock, that is no rumour it just has not been confirmed after the 2nd edition codex Angels of Death (Which we shared with the blood angels) so thats why many newer players (Read, those not having grey hairs in their beards) have not heard about it. That one came from somewhere in the mid 90'ies so it's been a while (15 or 16 years I'd guess). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241353-i-found-him/#findComment-2916086 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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