billga Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 - warriors 4+ Immortals 3+ - new wbb checked at end of EVERY phase on a 5+ for warriors, 4+ res orb (and darn near everything seemed to be able to get (have in unit) a Res Orb) If unit is wiped out though you don't get to make the check, sweeping Advance for the win - they are still very, very bad in hand to hand, though a neat 20 pt item on lord can remove a single figure (MC as well?) in base to base on a failed wound test. Blood Angels assault based lists will have an advantage against them. A lot of the shooty angel lists though will have a tougher time though. Book looks much better than before, with the model range getting a major upgrade. First glance I would give it a solid B, but it is nowhere in the ballpark of GK in my humble opinion. BTW - I have been told that the fluff is actually an improvement over last Codex - NO JOKE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Is it true that they are now 4+ armor save?How did they change we'll be back? If they still remain I2 and have worst save, I don't see how they can be a problem. Though they can't be worst than their previous edition, I mean I could beat them even with a randomly generated list. :lol: They are 4+ now but the WBB has changed so that they come back against any type of damage on a 5+. Will have to wait and see how good they are but the basic Necron Warrior seems to be more of an annoyance than a threat these days, other than to vehicles which they can suppress quite easily thanks to the auto glance on a 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vahouth Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 So even if a warrior fails to save the 5+ WBB in one phase, he is not removed but instead tests again in another phase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I think you only get one chance to come back normally but I'm not 100% sure on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 ok, guys. The codex is now out so lets avoid giving out too much in rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Chris Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Our brave allies the Necrons! WD battle report makes them very chatty. I thought they were silent, rather than engaging in witty banter. The fact they had to reduce the bastions to AV12 (the necron force in the battle report only had one stationary cannon which could have delivered anything more than a glancing blow) made me wonder. And the fact the allies went for static troops or slow movers like the Ironclad and the Devastators and sternguard makes me think in their 'practice match' they had realised the Vanguard and Assault squads would have smashed them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 That said, they still lost- it was 3:2 victory for the Eldar & Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lithanial Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 So with more prevalent 4+ save squads likely to be showing up... Whirlwinds anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I read the codex. They will not be able to beat a solid DoA army but mech just took a really huge hit. Cronz have Blood Lance on crack . Seriously. It's pretty cool . G :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drunken Angel Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 I am trying to find out the scarab leadership if its 8 then then FOtD will send them scuttling away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Drunken Angel TOo bad that will reduce them to Stock Marine LD i.e Cron are ld 10 across the board (Remove this if it pushes too many boundaries) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Scarabs are fearless. G ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 What makes some people hear think that DoA 'is the way to go' against Necrons? B) It really depends on the Necron army tbh... Necrons are not necessarily a shooting army only. They get a *really* good assault unit in the form of Wraiths. Overlords in Command Barges can also potentially pick out Priests and without FnP ASM just get shot to death by Immortals/Warriors + Ghost Arcs... Throw in potential units like C'tan(s), Tomb Spyders and Lynchguard.... Yeah, a Necron force can be very diverse. Their potential Av13(11) spam is mostly dangerous for S7/8 based armies; as you need to roll 6's with S8 to make quantam shielding go... BA on the other hand uses Las/Plas Preds in most competitive lists, which means S9 shots.... Couple that with Fast Melta platforms (ASM/speeders/attack bikes) and we can actually reliably generate penetrating results on their Av13. Most of their shooting is 24" based, which is a weakness but their most expensive IC (which will be taken a LOT) generates nightfight for several turns.... Some searchlights on rhinos/razors might not be a bad idea :P Our Mech is largely untouched, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodTzar Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Oh, how about scarabs+spiders combo (different wargear) i think its bane of all mech ... There is not enough blast/template nowadays in common builds that will deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Wait awhile and see what if you still think mech is untouched. I saw a Necron army take out eight vehicles in the first turn of a game yesterday. Most of the new Necron units are I2 - they will have problems versus dedicated melee armies. G B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Wait awhile and see what if you still think mech is untouched. I said *our* Mech. I assume you're mostly scared by Scarabs, am I right? It looks like most people run either Las/AC Preds + Las/plas Razors, or Las/AC Preds + Ass Razors, often some Baals too. All these units produce S6+ shots, instakilling Scarabs. Yes, they have stealth; so you probably wont shoot them all down before they manage to charge something. But letting a lot of your vehicles getting charged in 1 big multicharge is bad play... As soon as you force them out of cover it's over for Scarabs. (they'll drop by heaps) But we'll see how it goes, I'm not too worried. Seems like an interesting and balanced matchup at first sight. I saw a Necron army take out eight vehicles in the first turn of a game yesterday. I saw whole armies getting almost whiped out in 1 turn :P Anecdotal advice is a bit irrelevant, especially when people just start to play against a new codex. Most of the new Necron units are I2 - they will have problems versus dedicated melee armies. As we're not here to discuss Necrons against other armies, I'll leave this one alone B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnorriSnorrison Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 If you think about it, even their basic troops can wreck your vehicles very easily with the most basic weapons in the whole army. As mech lists are not able to wipe out whole squads in one turn, the chance that warriors or other specialised troops continue their work in the next turn increases. And that's only the infantry. The vehicles are all skimmers and carry some pretty nice weapons, or even Necronlords going for your rear armour. They outshoot mech lists. Snorri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 If you think about it, even their basic troops can wreck your vehicles very easily with the most basic weapons in the whole army. False. Their Gauss weapons (which can glance a rhino at best) are rapid fire. So either they are 18" ranged (same as foot meltaguns...which have higher odds of wrecking a rhino then 20 gauss shots ofc) or they are 24" when standing still (same as a Multimelta tactical squad bunker). Maybe you don't remember why Crons mostly sucked big time: They couldn't kill vehicles efficiently cause Gauss only glances (: Now of course they got much more tools, but that doesn't make them 'ZOMG the sky is falling good!!!' at killing Mech. They don't change the damage table suddenly or something, or the price of Razors/rhinos... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkrieg861 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 The scarabs are a little stronger now but it's like people are just realizing that Necrons could glance your armor with damn near any weapon. It's the same as last version guys, did none of you ever play against Necrons before? With that said, I played against the new codex last night. The night fighting guy, potentially, does as much harm as he does good. He makes mid range fighting far more favorable but this is great if you have assaulty units. Nothing better than slow and terrible close combat units moving up the board so you can assault them. The lightning strikes from his night fighting rule are good too if only very random. Uh... don't send Meph against a unit of scarabs, having Meph fly around with no armor save of any kind is very hurtful haha. Very cool rule for the scarabs in general but really I don't see any reason why they should be hitting you on anything better than a 4 or if you're more intelligent a 6. I had a whole unit of 10 attack a Pred and they shaved off some armor, yeah, but couldn't do any more than shake it. Their Strength is still low so they need to eat through 4-5 points of armor before they'll be somewhat reliable. The warriors are better because of the point cost. The we'll be back roll is harder but it's more often now, very cool I would say but then again crummier armor with a crummier get back up really isn't too scary if you're shooting them with the ridiculous amounts of Assault Cannons we have. I couldn't seem to keep them down in combat with my smaller 5 ASM units. They kept getting back up but that made for some laughs. Destroyers... not sold on them. The heavy ones were needed badly, I'm happy for this change for them but I really don't think the range should've been dropped on the regular destroyer weapon, everything else about them is fine. Monoliths are nothing now. Without living metal preventing meltas guns, assault cannons and MC from getting more than 1 armor pen dice they don't last long. Just like a raider but slower moving and harder to get cover. I managed to take one out with an Assault Cannon yesterday. Very gratifying. I didn't get blasted with that suck you into this portable black hole we having thing but shooting them down is waaaaay easier now. Didn't have a chance to play against a command barge, ghost ark or night whatever the last one is called. My buddy picked up the power sword and storm shield unit and a command barge but we played right after this (I offered to postpone for a couple days so he can read the book) But we are planning one for next week and my friend is a pretty smart dude, I'm sure he'll figure some nasty stuff out for next game. With that said, initially, I'm underwhelmed by the army. Yes mech can be glanced a lot but we have the advantage of mobility and/or range over these guys and again, it's just a glance. I took a buttload of fire from the lightning storm, monoliths, scarabs, destroyers and regular warriors and I did not lose a single vehicle because they are glancing most the time. I mean I lost 5 of 6 Assault Cannons, had four get immobilized and more shaken/stunned than I could count but that's it. Not one of them blew up. Maybe this will change if we see a lot of their transports. Being open topped could be bad for getting shot up but they sacrifice their mobility then for full range or sacrifice their range for rapid fire. Either way brings your full armament to bear on them and no Necron vehicle is standing up to a couple close range melta guns since they're open topped. These are my thoughts on the new codex. Hope some others had a chance to play against it but honestly it seems like people have forgotten or were unaware that Necron had most of this stuff beforehand. EDIT: language Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Meh, I wouldn't say too early that you're underwhelmed with the army either. It's like the same with every new codex, some people say it's gonna be shaking up whole 40k while others say nothing has changed at all... I would simply go with a more carefull view: They're just a good codex, like (almost; hi Nids) every 5th edition codex. You gonna see completely different armies than the old Necrons after a while though, when people get their hands on all the models needed for that. 2 sample armies I made to show this: 2x Necron Overlord met Warscythe in a Command Barge. 4 Crypteks met Eldritch Lance, 1 solar pulse 4x5 Warriors in a Ghost Ark 2x Stalker 2x Annihilator Barge Total: 1750 That's a list with 10 Av13(11) vehicles, nightfight for 1 turn and a ton of shooting at 24" range. Just another Mech army, but plays completely different. Has your list enough ranged firepower to drop so many Av13 vehicles? Or reliable ways of killing them at close range where the Necrons their shooting excells? On the other hand an all Foot mostly CC Crons: Imotekh 225 Solar Pulse Cryptek 55 3x5 Immortals w/ Telsa 255 1x10 Immortals w/ Gauss 170 6 Wraiths 210 10 Scarabs 150 C'tan; Writhing Worldshape + Pyreshards 235 3 x 3 Spyders 450 Total: 1750 Nightfight for a lot of turns, passive damage from Imotekh and the C'tan; while having some fast Assault units (wraiths + scarabs) and 27 T6 wounds coming at you (the spyders) backed up by decent anti-inafantry shooting (the immortals). Can you handle so many wounds coming at you while having to deal with Nightfight and dangerous terrain? Those are the kind of questions you gotta ask yourself when looking at your army. Just looking at some random units and going "omg, omg!" doesn't help anybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I pretty much agree with Zhukov. Its too early for me to say if the Necrons are going to change much in the meta of the game. I'm sure everyone will be forced to compensate somewhat, but I don't think this codex alone is enough for me to say that I need to drop mech for DOA (of course I have both style armies built). Looking forward to facing the Crons and seeing what challenge they present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Guys, please keep it relevant and how it relates to us. Lists and player preferences regarding Crons dont belong in this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Lists and player preferences regarding Crons dont belong in this forum. You do realise I did that to potentially give insight to others here and not for myself right? Trust me, I don't go here to get attention or advice for myself :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitzkrieg861 Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I did make mention that I didn't have a chance to play against the transports yet. It could make things different for playing against Necrons, for sure. I'm fully expecting in a month or two to see some lists from Necrons that make you go "Oh snap, that's good" but I didn't see anything in the army that was ridiculous like say... Long Fangs. I had the same feeling about Blood Angels initially, felt they were meh, so take that for what it is. I was expecting a little more out of some of the changes I guess. The first list you posted up there looks scarier to me. I honestly wouldn't be all too frightened of the spyders when I have Meph and Power Fist DC on top of 6 twin-linked assault cannons, they can bring down anything with decent rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 the more i look into it the less i see their specia stuff being a pain for us but being agreater pain for other armys, for instance being initive2 means certain armys are wasting potential trying to use special initive increasing weapons for example, whereas we havedecentinitivewhich isnt wasted and the boost we get to our strength helps us out against them in cc. saying that theydo havean ability to block physcic powers but we probably wont needto rely on them quite as much as some. the whole nightfighting is a boon to usas others have said. saying that their ability to have stormsheilds on toughness5 with essientially a relic blade could bea pain if you dont kill them before they strike... so kill em before they kill you. so as i said i dont see a reall shift in our abilitys from necrons like we were seeing from the greyknights who have made us rethink cc as they can beat us there if your not careful enough... really its just there is far more potential in this new codex for them and they dont have to be stuck with the same crappy samey army, which as a necron opponent im very happy about. just watch for counter assaults from the new cc specialists as they have potential to be a real pain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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