Psycannon question

[Emperorwaffle]

Psycannon profile: S7 Assault 2 or Heavy 4, rending.

 

From my understanding and education this means that you pick either Assault 2 or Heavy 4 with rending. I've been informed that rending applies to both options, but I disagree. Has it been FAQed?

[Abaddonshand]

No. Just no. Don't have the time to go into it just now, but the weapon profile is assault 2 rending on the move and heavy 4 rending when stationary. People who thought GK were overpowered tried to argue about this on release of the new codex, but it sank like a stone. And it makes sense in terms of the rules interacting with the wider game world, the quality of the ammo doesn't change, only the rate of fire, when moving.

[Something Wycked]

The examination that was done on that around these parts pointed out that the comma is unnecessary if the writer intended Rending to only apply to the Heavy 4 mode of fire: "Assault 2 or Heavy 4 Rending"

 

But the comma is there and serves to separate the "Assault 2 or Heavy 4" from the "Rending," indicating that the Psycannon Rends with both firing modes.

 

EDIT: For some information on the consensus, read through this thread and this thread.

[Emperorwaffle]

If that is how the cannon operates, then Matt Ward and GW should brush up on their grammar. I cannot complain since it benefits me, but I would think they would have a better command of the English language. Thanks for the help. B)

[Abaddonshand]

GW can be criticised for grammatical errors in a number of ways (most frequent offender = the plural of cannon in terms of the weapon, rather than priest, is cannon), but as Something Wycked points out, on this occasion their grammar is correct. The comma in the description is adequate to clearly convey what they wanted within the confines of the English language. Ergo, any failures in comprehension of their meaning among the player base fall squarely at the feet of said players and their ability to understand the correct use of a comma in this context, and not at the feet of the GW writers.

[Emperorwaffle]

The comma has 10 different uses, but the word "or" has but one definition. The comma does conjoin rending with the heavy profile, but since "or" is used, it would grammatically separate the two firing modes. I am but a few people that this oversight would annoy though. I am an expert regarding the English language and the history. I do not mean to seem arrogant, but those are my credentials and reasoning for the post in the first place. The definition of the word "or" is what really boggles my mind since it is to offer another option. Like I said, if that is the way the modes works, then that is just another benefit for my army.

[Brother Valerius]

With all due respect, if that's how you read it, then you don't interpret English as it is most commonly used. The comma functions here like a parenthesis, and the resulting interpretation is the one that any English speaker I have ever met would have immediately arrived at.

[thecapn226]

Well using imperial gothic the word "or" has 56 different meanings and one of them let's psycannons be assault 2 rending lol. Just remember its a book written by the same guy that in his last work couldn't find a good way to finish several entrys ........ Lol

[Emperorwaffle]

You are right about the comma, but "or" is the issue. Commonly, it is used to offer another option, which would not include the comma conjoined with the second mode. Commonality does not make fact. If commonality was the determining factor of life, being fifty pounds overweight would be absolutely okay. In my country it would be. B)

[breng77]

Lets go by GW precedent then. In the Dark Eldar DEX, the Splinter Cannon is S X Assault 4 or Heavy 6, Poisoned. By your reasoning it is only poisoned in heavy mode, and thus unusable in assault mode? (As the gun has no strength if it is not poisoned it does not damage.). Obviously this is not the intent. For GW the commas separate the items in the list of the weapons Type. FOr example a weapon might be Assault 1, large blast, pinning. It has all of these qualities. In other words the comma separates the parts of the list and is equivalent to AND the weapon is Assault 1 AND Large Blast AND Pinning. In the case of the psycannon the weapon is (Assault 2 OR Heavy 4) AND Rending. There is no comma separating the Assault 2 and the Heavy 4, so you choose one of these (not both) and then get rending.

 

Lets not get too into different Grammar workings of GW, it is not their strong point and when you know the intent of the rule to be obvious (because it works that way for every other weapon).

[Morollan]

Emperorwaffle - If it was "Rending, Assault 2 or Heavy 4" how would you read that?

[thade]

Emperorwaffle - If it was "Rending, Assault 2 or Heavy 4" how would you read that?

This is the best way to understand it, in my mind.

 

Psycannons are Rending, S7, and either Assault 2 (if you moved) or Heavy 4 (if you did not). I'd recommend not getting too into the grammar-challenges with the rule set; they are innumerable and would render the game unplayable if all enumerated. <3

 

EDIT: I have yet to finish my coffee. No, really.

[nurglez]

str 7 thade :ph34r:

[Joe Mama]

Commonality does not make fact.

 

How do you think new words and phrases come about? Or how do you think that old words take on new meaning? By usage in society, by commonality. Instead of saying he or she, I have seen people say "they". A singular form of "they" because people are annoyed with saying he or she to be gender neutral, I am one of these people. Eventually this probably will become a widely used and accepted part of the English langauge. This will slowly happen. No one in an ivory tower one day is going to decide and then everyone will use it. No, the ivory tower folks will add it to the dictionary and grammar books once it become widespread enough. That was just an example, maybe "they" won't catch on, with my luck it probably won't and I'lljust sound uneducated, but that's how language grows.

[thade]

str 7 thade ;)

Bah, it's always something. Thanks, nurglez.

 

ADDENDUM: I'm gonna go a lil' meta on this thread and suggest this to the OP. Psycannons Rend no matter what they're shootin' at; that's the way it is. Everybody you encounter with them will run them that way; challenging them on it is a good and fast way to make people not want to play with you. :\ There are nitpicks worthy of attention in this game...this isn't one of them. <3

[Jacinda]

It is simply a list and has no gramatical structure one would expect of a full sentence.

 

• Strength 7
  
• Assault 2 or Heavy 4
  
• Rending
  

[number6]

I think Jacinda has answered this both correctly and as succinctly as possible. There is no reason to argue about it for days on end.