Renegade Honour guard first time modeling

[Okysho]

I'm in the middle of doing a custom Honour guard based on the Sanguinary Phalanx. http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=87667

(see link)

This includes my own chapter Master using Commander Dante special rules etc.

 

I'm just not very good at modeling and even less at using Green stuff.

 

What I'm trying to achieve:

 

All I can really do is point to the Sanguinary Phalanx in the link above and say "pretty much that" with a few differences.

 

My weapons instead of spears I want to be Zanbatous. For those of you who don't know a quick google search should solve the problem.

 

Here are my concept sketches for the Chapter Master's sword, Kusanagi Adustum and the Zanbatou's

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2327.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2328.jpg

 

Here's my "work in progress" after about 2 weeks working on it on and off I've managed to get this far:

 

Anyways here's my Chapter Master. Keno Murasame.

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2316.jpg

 

And a more current version with a modeled Kusanagi

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2338.jpg

 

 

Here's an image of my Sanguinary apothecary. The fist is custom made as is the Zanbatou he was carrying.

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2339.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2340.jpg

 

The last major part of the guard is my Blood Champion. As a Renegade chapter I'm trying to integrate female Space Marines into my army (If you don't like it, tough) I've taken a look at the Shadowsun tutorial on Librarium Online and I've looked quite a bit into it, but my greenstuff skill is terrible and so I wasn't going to build a female body from scratch.

 

I took one of the Sanguinary guard bodies and filed out the bottom and replaced it with green stuff to try and make it look thinner and more feminine, but it still doesn't look quite right. I also can't form a female head out of green stuff..

 

Here's my attempts at it.

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2342.jpg

 

The details are pretty hard to tell the wings, head and arm with the power weapon are all not complete for fear of messing it up even more.

 

EDIT:

 

Thanks so much guys, for all your help and suggestions, it's coming along really well.

 

Here's some more pictures of the less interesting honour guard models

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2345.jpg

[Leonaides]

Have you got a frontal picture of that apothecary? I have a horrible feeling that putting a normal PA hand on the end og the power fist like that might just have given him lop-sided arms...

[Okysho]

Have you got a frontal picture of that apothecary? I have a horrible feeling that putting a normal PA hand on the end of the power fist like that might just have given him lop-sided arms...

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2330.jpg

 

I sure hope it's not lop-sided.

 

I don't have any space apothecary arms so I made mine from scratch. I wasn't about to ship out to order a command squad just for an arm...

[Wicced]

apothecary arm is definetly too long, a normal sized hand would have to be at least partially recessed inside the powerfists forearm.

there is a nice tutorial for this on another forum, look here

 

posing of the models looks nice though. as for the broken of swords, pinning might help, you just need a small drill and some wire or a paperclip and those buggers won't fall off anymore.

 

looking forward to where this is going...

[Okysho]

apothecary arm is definetly too long, a normal sized hand would have to be at least partially recessed inside the powerfists forearm.

there is a nice tutorial for this on another forum, look here

 

posing of the models looks nice though. as for the broken of swords, pinning might help, you just need a small drill and some wire or a paperclip and those buggers won't fall off anymore.

 

looking forward to where this is going...

 

That's funny cuz that's the exact tutorial I used. I figured the angle on that final picture was just off and I ended up putting the hand too far out. I'll make that adjustment now.

 

I'm trying to do that sword hilt the best I can, but I'm just not that good at the greenstuff sculpting. I'll post my results after it dries and I shape it more, but I can't say how it'll turn out.

 

Thanks a lot though, glad to finally have some feedback

[popkhorne]

god, anime marines I never thought I would see the day...

[Okysho]

My aesthetic choice aside, are there any tips for how I might shape the cross section of the sword? Again, I'm not that great with greenstuff, how might I try and achieve the look I'm going for?

[sioka]

My aesthetic choice aside, are there any tips for how I might shape the cross section of the sword? Again, I'm not that great with greenstuff, how might I try and achieve the look I'm going for?

 

It seems that your ideas are good :) but your chosen putty is letting you down :) .

 

The Green Stuff is great for sculpting hair and any other bio forms but is gona be a pain for any hard edge work like armour plate and swords as it tends to not hold sharp detail well. You can go back to the putty after an hour and a half (from mix time) when it is becoming more solid to retouch any sharp detail areas, this however wont help with the fact that Green Stuff wont sand or file too well compared to other puttys.

For sharp detail try Milliput (yellow-grey) this can be used on its own or as a mix with Green Stuff. On its own it will take a bit of experimentation to get used too as it has a more clay like feel than Green Stuff but sets rock hard an can be sanded and drilled, this makes it fantastic for creating blades (just remember to use an armature). As a mix it gives the best of both puttys and can be blended smoother taking fine detail well and can be sanded easily to good effect.

In its mixed but unset state Milliput is water soluble so you would probably want to use vaseline as a lube whilst sculpting (same for the Milli + GS mix) and give it a gentle wash in soapy water after the putty has set and before adding any more detail or base coating.

 

Another option for blades is plasticard but this will be a pain to drill in to for the pin it will need to keep it strong. To get the shape you want for the cross section of the sword you will want to gently carve your chosen medium in to roughly the right shape and then file and sand smooth.

 

You need to get yourself a pin vice as Wicced recomends as this is key for strong conversions and also for pinning an armature on to part of a figure (sword with armature on to a hand).

 

Hope this helps

 

:ph34r: Ninja out

[Okysho]

My aesthetic choice aside, are there any tips for how I might shape the cross section of the sword? Again, I'm not that great with greenstuff, how might I try and achieve the look I'm going for?

 

It seems that your ideas are good :) but your chosen putty is letting you down :P .

 

The Green Stuff is great for sculpting hair and any other bio forms but is gona be a pain for any hard edge work like armour plate and swords as it tends to not hold sharp detail well. You can go back to the putty after an hour and a half (from mix time) when it is becoming more solid to retouch any sharp detail areas, this however wont help with the fact that Green Stuff wont sand or file too well compared to other puttys.

For sharp detail try Milliput (yellow-grey) this can be used on its own or as a mix with Green Stuff. On its own it will take a bit of experimentation to get used too as it has a more clay like feel than Green Stuff but sets rock hard an can be sanded and drilled, this makes it fantastic for creating blades (just remember to use an armature). As a mix it gives the best of both puttys and can be blended smoother taking fine detail well and can be sanded easily to good effect.

In its mixed but unset state Milliput is water soluble so you would probably want to use vaseline as a lube whilst sculpting (same for the Milli + GS mix) and give it a gentle wash in soapy water after the putty has set and before adding any more detail or base coating.

 

Another option for blades is plasticard but this will be a pain to drill in to for the pin it will need to keep it strong. To get the shape you want for the cross section of the sword you will want to gently carve your chosen medium in to roughly the right shape and then file and sand smooth.

 

You need to get yourself a pin vice as Wicced recomends as this is key for strong conversions and also for pinning an armature on to part of a figure (sword with armature on to a hand).

 

Hope this helps

 

:) Ninja out

 

Just like a ninja to come to my aid (this happens more often than you'd think)

 

I'm actually taking the plastic option. I couldn't get my hands on actual plasticard, so I'm using something called Lamacoid, it's used generally to make name plaques or letters. It's about 2mm thick, just a little thicker than plasticard so I can file and shape it better as if it were a piece of GW plastic. I'm just not that good at it.

 

I never thought of using Millput, but it sounds like a much better alternative to greenstuff for doing larger sculpting like the cross section for the sword. I've only got one local hobby shop, so I'm crossing my fingers that I'll find some there. This stuff looks even more rare than plasticard.

 

As for the pin vise, my latest attempt (thanks to Wicced, mind) I manged to cut a small notch in the bottom of the base and stuck a piece of paper clip in there. An actual pin vice is expensive though ($50 at home depot's online store, just a quick look) Are there any cheaper alternatives to this? I don't have dremel tool access either.

 

Posting sword and Zanbatou attempts soon, along with fixed apothecary arm.

 

Any help on the girl is still appreciated.

[Okysho]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2333.jpg

 

Swords and Zanbatou blade attempts. I wouldn't mind some feedback on these.

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2332.jpg

 

Moved apothecary arm according to Wicced's suggestions I hope it's better now.

[sioka]

:lol: $50! It should be under half that try this:-

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4pc-PIN-VICE-SET...=item3effa779e4

 

or even

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Micro-Mini-Drill...=item35b5075b99

 

This is just a rough idea of price, sadly I can't recomend the place I would use as its in the U.K.

 

If you get stuck for Milliput there are alternatives in any putty that is air hardening and sets hard without flex, such as Magic sculp.

 

With feedback for the swords, your work looks good and the centre one is very good. The advice I would give is try to keep the blade as one peice then sculpt the hilt around it, this will minimise the amount of visible joins and enable you to strengthen the peice as a whole.

 

Some putty links for you:-

 

G.S (just checked again this is in the states sorry) http://www.gregdorrance.com/kneadatite-blu...ars-p-4865.html

 

Milliput too http://www.amazon.com/Standard-Yellow-Grey...y/dp/B001OBBTMW

 

Edit due to stupid ninja :ph34r:

[Wicced]

the arm looks a tad better now, but i would cut away the powerfists knuckles as shown in the tutorial, then it will have the right proportions imho.

 

i'm with sioka on the putty, green stuff is not perfect for sharp edges etc. but your swords look good (even if the yellow spot shows me you didn't mix it completely :ph34r: )

 

on the female space marine topic, personally i don't like the idea, but if you want some in your army i'd recommend using and converting sisters of battle or other female models aside from GWs product range.

i think it's nearly impossible to convert a space marine with male proportioned parts to look female.

scratchbuilding might work, but that's gonna be a real pain to realise imho

[Okysho]

the arm looks a tad better now, but i would cut away the powerfists knuckles as shown in the tutorial, then it will have the right proportions imho.

 

i'm with sioka on the putty, green stuff is not perfect for sharp edges etc. but your swords look good (even if the yellow spot shows me you didn't mix it completely ;) )

 

on the female space marine topic, personally i don't like the idea, but if you want some in your army i'd recommend using and converting sisters of battle or other female models aside from GWs product range.

i think it's nearly impossible to convert a space marine with male proportioned parts to look female.

scratchbuilding might work, but that's gonna be a real pain to realise imho

 

Ohhh is that what that studded piece is.... I thought it was actually part of the upper hand, not the knuckles... It's a Devastator sergeant power fist, so it looks a bit different from the others...

 

That yellow spot is actually a piece of the ribbon I wasn't able to get out. T.T I'll look into the milliput, since I'm doubting how nice the "wings" on my sword look.

 

I've considered building my female marines from scratch. I think I put it in the OP, but I tried mimicking the Shadowsun Tau tutorial on Librarium Online

Here - Shadowsun

but it didn't quite work out, so I tried working female features into the model itself. It's kinda tough to tell I guess. Since I can't form a female head out of greenstuff (probably not out of Milliput either) I think I may just buy some separate heads online. I'll need to do it for general conversion anyway. Considering I have a lack of confidence in my skill though, if I can even get the model to look remotely feminine, that's great success in my book.

[Okysho]

;) $50! It should be under half that try this:-

 

If you get stuck for Milliput there are alternatives in any putty that is air hardening and sets hard without flex, such as Magic sculp.

 

With feedback for the swords, your work looks good and the centre one is very good. The advice I would give is try to keep the blade as one peice then sculpt the hilt around it, this will minimise the amount of visible joins and enable you to strengthen the peice as a whole.

 

Capitalist bastards.... lol

 

I'll have to look a little more in-depth into finding a pin vise then. (other google results show actual vice-grips) It might be better to go off and ask around locally...

 

Thanks for the comment on the sword, it's a real morale boost. I haven't much comparison besides actual GW material (which I'm sure mine is far from). The hilt with the "jewel" is actually covering a piece of paper clip I've pinned into the blade. Since there's no hole in the hand of my Chapter Master, I've been thinking of simply gluing on the blade like that and an extended handle out the bottom.

 

The Zanbatou's need a bit more work since they have feathering off of the tapered sections of the blade, and will be extending to the length of a spear (handle, including the blade). We'll see how it goes... I'm thinking of using toothpicks as handles

[Okysho]

Ok, I was rummaging through some of my extra bitz and I stumbled upon an aquilla from my baal predator. I suddenly got the idea to use it as the wings for my sword.

 

Here's a weird picture I placed overtop of the current wings just to get an idea of how it might look.

 

I think I'll make another blade and see how well this fits with it, since it's hard to tell with the current greenstuff all over it. I'll let B&C decide which will work best since you guys are the nicest out of all the other forums

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2335.jpg

[Ch@oZ]

I think the plastic wings look better. Sculpting in GS requires some experience (but it's easier than You think)- for now stick to ready made bitz. I've been using GS for years, even making a scratchbuilt sculpt for Inquisitor, but I still don't feel confident enough with it. Btw- did You know that the google image search for the weapon's name takes you straight to your post?

[Okysho]

I think the plastic wings look better. Sculpting in GS requires some experience (but it's easier than You think)- for now stick to ready made bitz. I've been using GS for years, even making a scratchbuilt sculpt for Inquisitor, but I still don't feel confident enough with it. Btw- did You know that the google image search for the weapon's name takes you straight to your post?

 

Fair enough, this is my first time using Green Stuff. Again, just so I don't destroy two days worth of work (yes that too two days...) I'll file down another piece of plastic and use it as a prototype for the wings. Maybe I'll be able to cut out those tapering pieces from my original concept sketch.

 

I just got a suggestion that I should use my "rough" base to make the blade look like it was forged from Crystal.

 

BTW What did you put into google search?

 

Zanbatou doesn't do it, neither does Kusanagi Adustum (The actual name of the Chapter Master's sword)

[Ch@oZ]

The crystal idea seems promising.

As for the google search "Zanbatou" doesn't link here, but "Zanbatous" does :P

[sioka]

Fair enough, this is my first time using Green Stuff. Again, just so I don't destroy two days worth of work (yes that too two days...) I'll file down another piece of plastic and use it as a prototype for the wings. Maybe I'll be able to cut out those tapering pieces from my original concept sketch.

 

This would take me Four sessions to make, this gives time for each component to set and makes the sculpt much easier to work on. Is the black plastic you are using compatable with standard plastic glue?

[Okysho]

Fair enough, this is my first time using Green Stuff. Again, just so I don't destroy two days worth of work (yes that too two days...) I'll file down another piece of plastic and use it as a prototype for the wings. Maybe I'll be able to cut out those tapering pieces from my original concept sketch.

 

This would take me Four sessions to make, this gives time for each component to set and makes the sculpt much easier to work on. Is the black plastic you are using compatable with standard plastic glue?

 

Yep, it's called lamicoid. and it works no problem with regular glue.

 

I lucked out and managed to find a pin vise and bit at the one "real" hobby shop in town. I assembled the Zanbatous for my apothecary and standard bearer. I'm working on the Kusanagi Adustum MkII (with the plastic wings) right now

[Okysho]

Oky's been working hard all weekend! Here's the fruits of the labour!!

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2340.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2339.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2338.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2337.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2345.jpg

 

I'll add some more info later

[Okysho]

RESURRECTION!!!

 

After about 3 months I give you the 80% finished result.

 

The models will probably stay this way, because if my greenstuff skills were crap, my painting skills are terrible. I could have easily sent something like this to go out and be commissioned, but I feel a bit better knowiing that I did it myself.

 

Before anyone says anything about my female Blood Champion, you can stop your comments right there. It's my chapter I can do what I want with it.

 

Before anyone says anything about my Chapter Master's massive self, I never planned on him being this big. Yeah, the sword was a bit big, but that's how I planned it. The wings I shipped out for came in a bit big and a bit heavy. I had to... compensate. Now he towers over everyone LIKE A BOSS!

 

PICTURE TIME!!!

 

Regular honour guard with storm shield:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2350.jpg

 

Sanguinary Apothercary:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2348.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2349.jpg

 

Blood Champion, Freya Galactus:

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2353.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2354.jpg

 

And the Chapter Master, Keno Murasame:

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2356.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2359.jpg

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2358.jpg

 

And a group shot. Sorry about the crappy quality... My camera blows.

 

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f101/Okysho/HPIM2360.jpg

[Commander Sasha]

A great result, and well done for pursuing your ideas. I use female marines, and after plenty of reading and discussion, plus some experimentation, decided to use either different manufacturers for pre-made female models, or regular marine bodies with female heads. Power armour wouldn't look different for a female wearer anyway, so if you want a more stylised female figure, you may as well go the whole hog, and declare that she is using Mk IX 'Versace' pattern armour, which is totally different!

I have 2 versions of Warmachine's Kommander Sorscha as my Captain ("Commander Sasha" herself!), Raging Heroes' Kapitan Kurganova as my Chaplain, and several of HasslefreeMiniature'sSci-Fi adventurers as my scouts.

 

Hasslefree also do some useful female heads, and GW fantasy Wood Elves are also a good size.

 

Finally, The Jungle is one of my favourite blog/sites, and his Fighting Tigers of Veda are a well thought out mixed gender chapter, that also features "adequate" painting rather than competition standard, and is proud of it. I am an ok converter, a beginner at sculpting, and dreadful at painting, and I'm satisfied with that!

 

Your models look great (better than mine), and are truly individual. Keep up the good work!

[Okysho]

A great result, and well done for pursuing your ideas. I use female marines, and after plenty of reading and discussion, plus some experimentation, decided to use either different manufacturers for pre-made female models, or regular marine bodies with female heads. Power armour wouldn't look different for a female wearer anyway, so if you want a more stylised female figure, you may as well go the whole hog, and declare that she is using Mk IX 'Versace' pattern armour, which is totally different!

I have 2 versions of Warmachine's Kommander Sorscha as my Captain ("Commander Sasha" herself!), Raging Heroes' Kapitan Kurganova as my Chaplain, and several of HasslefreeMiniature'sSci-Fi adventurers as my scouts.

 

Hasslefree also do some useful female heads, and GW fantasy Wood Elves are also a good size.

 

Finally, The Jungle is one of my favourite blog/sites, and his Fighting Tigers of Veda are a well thought out mixed gender chapter, that also features "adequate" painting rather than competition standard, and is proud of it. I am an ok converter, a beginner at sculpting, and dreadful at painting, and I'm satisfied with that!

 

Your models look great (better than mine), and are truly individual. Keep up the good work!

 

Thanks a lot, it was pretty tough to do.

 

It's funny you should mention handsfree since that's where I got the heads from. They took a lays of greenstuff to re-proportion the head, but I'm glad they look alright. Handsfree heads are good enough for every single Warhammer model EXCEPT the space marines since they're so bloody huge.

 

For the torso, I filed out the mid section of the power armour and used greenstuff to make a slimmer looking torso in an attempt to mimic a modified power armour for women. Can't say that's quite as successful...