Henchmen Psykers

[*Furyou Miko]

Then he's not a high enough priority target B)

[Something Wycked]

Then he's not a high enough priority target ;)

B)

 

Just sayin', there's too many variables to take into account for this discussion that's taking place in a vacuum. :P

 

CQ says the S8 AP1 template owns the incoming Libby/etc., I say they're in a LR or SR or its a BA Libby using DoA to come down close to the target without getting shot at or they're making effective use of cover or the side with the libby has a good amount of anti-transport firepower and stuns/immobilizes/destroys the Henchmen's transport...

 

CQ brings up counter arguments to each of those, and then round and round we go, chasing each others' tails, never having seen the things that really matter in this discussion- the opposing lists, the table's terrain, and the skill of each player. B)

 

What it boils down to is this: Henchmen Psykers will be worth it to you if one or more of the following is true:

 

1. You enjoy the "splat" factor if your dice don't favor them.

2. Your dice favor them and they nuke lots of stuff for you.

3. Your opponents leave them and their transport alone so they can nuke in peace.

4. Your opponents don't bring vehicles/psychic defense/tactics to the table that can effectively chase down/neutralize the Henchmen and/or transport.

5. You are more skilled at maneuvering than your opponent and can effectively keep the Henchmen out of danger of enemy weapons.

[The Holy Heretic]

What people seem to forget is the cheap cost of these guys.

 

40 points for a serious threat to MEQs. That leaves you a lot of points for other stuff, while these guys can even be scoring too. Most opponent will feel the pressure, when you start blasting marines with this group, and will be forced to divert some firepower to them, and often this will be some serious long range firepower that is generally put to better use vs. armor. Also worth considering is that they won't have to kill more than a couple of marines to actually make their points back.

 

Next. Sure an opponent can 'easily' deal with these boys - but sending Librarians and expensive whatnots chasing 40pt cannonfodder units is 'a foolish waste of points'. Especially since you just might have other units prepared to take advantage of this.

 

Buying psykers protection in form of transports and or ablative wounds is also a bit 'daft' - especially in a Coteaz list - since the little buggers just might blow up on their own, and then these protective measures are left without a purpose. And buying a 45 pt rhino for 40 pts of henchmen is bit OTT, why not just get an extra unit of psykers and bring the pain.

 

Just imagine having 5 squads of scoring psykers, Coteaz with either a firebase or a Death Cult, you'd field this for about 500 points, leaving you plenty of points for Psyflemen, Vindicares, Paladins and/or purifiers. The psychic barrage would be devastating to those dreaded long fangs and other stuff (since you should be able to pass most checks on ld8) forcing your opponent to ignore your main force and deal with your puny psykers.

[Joe Mama]

Ok, let me see if I can summarize the points.

 

Never worth it, perils, hoods etc

 

or

 

They are cheap, not a big deal if they don't work

May not be a good idea to have in a transport by themselves, besides 4pt acolyte (increases their cost, squad entirely dependent on the psykers).

May be worth campng on an objective w/o a transport (since they are so cheap)

May be worth adding 4-6 guys to a shooty meched up henchmen squad (since the cost of the transport is spread out over the psykers and other henchmen instead of just the henchmen).

[confused_gordy]

I'm surprised people are stopping at the strength 8.

 

Why?

 

5th is often called mech-hammer for a reason, why not bump it up to 10, makes it much more effective against vehicles, for a small point increase. admittedly it shouldn't be a primary anti tank weapon, however it is long range (for GK) and powerful, so should not be overlooked.

[The Holy Heretic]

Well, at S10 you're paying through the nose for an unreliable anti-tank gun. Its got a chance to selfdestruct, and a good chance to scatter off target. I would consider bumping it to AP2 though :D

[Chengar Qordath]

Well, at S10 you're paying through the nose for an unreliable anti-tank gun. Its got a chance to selfdestruct, and a good chance to scatter off target. I would consider bumping it to AP2 though :P

Have to agree there; a BS 3 large blast is never going to be a very good AT weapon. Pretty much any scatter means you get half-damage, at best.

 

Personally, I would say anything between S 6 AP 3 and S8 AP 1 is ideal. The 6-3 setup is great for spamming ultra-cheap units that can still pack a punch, while 7-2 is a touch more expensive but gets to punch through 2+ saves and negate FNP, and 8-1 can instant-death Toughness 4 models. I would personally go for an 8-1 setup; it's still pretty cheap, and the instant-death capability can be really useful (and it's a gift from the Emperor if you face any list that uses lots of multi-wound models, like Draigowinf)

[*Furyou Miko]

To the person who decried buying them a transport: If the transport is a Chimera, the transport is worth it even if you don't put the squad in it! It's essentially a ground-based Valkyrie (Oh, the irony!)

[Joe Mama]

Wouldn't a Rhino be better, with it's fortitude ability?

[Something Wycked]

Wouldn't a Rhino be better, with it's fortitude ability?

"Better" is subjective.

 

Chimeras have superior firepower and fire points, superior front armor, superior water mobility, superior transport capacity.

 

Rhinos have superior side armor and access points, superior reliability in the face of shaken/stunned results, and is cheaper.

 

It can be said that Chimeras will suffer fewer glancing hits due to their higher front armor facing and mitigate the Rhino's advantage of shaking off shaken/stunned.

 

Going purely by the number of "superiors" the Chimera wins out, but a player could decide that any of these reasons is the reason one of the vehicles is the best choice for themselves or just for certain units in their army.

[SirDuck13]

I played a game just for fun that was to spam as many large blasts as I could this weekend and had a blast. I wouldn't rate it as the most competitive thing I've ever put down on a gameboard, but it was a blast.

 

I fielded:

HQ

Coteaz (Henchmen as troops)

Grand Master (A bad choice as it turned out, but I was kinda rushing to build the list)

- Orbital strike relay

 

Elite

3x Techmarine - orbital strike relay

 

Troops

Henchmen Squad

-3x Crusaders

-3x Death Cult

-5x Warriors (2 w/ stormbotlers, 3 w/meltaguns)

 

3x Henchmen Squads

-6x Psykers

-Rhino

 

Henchmen Squad

-2x Jaekaro Weaponsmith

-3x Servitors w/ Plasma Cannon

-Chimera

 

Fast Attack

Stormraven w/ Multimetla, Assault Cannon

 

Heavy

3x Psyriflemen Dreads

 

I put one techmarine with each of the Psyker squads in rhinos so they could both fire. I put Coteaz in the squad with the Servitors so they would never mind lock and could fire at anything that DSd, as well as putting the GM with them so that he could hide in the chimera with them and they could all fire out. I used the stormraven for a distraction and to deliver the CC capable Henchmen squad into the fight.

 

It was a fun game, and I got lucky when we rolled table quarters for deployment. My opponent was a mech IG list that is pretty nasty. It took me forever to slag all of his chimeras, but between the large blasts, the assault cannons and melta from the stormraven, and the psyrifle dreads, I took out all of his heavy hitters pretty early. His force was left relying on chimelta vet squads that were having a helluva time getting close to me.

 

I would in no way endorse this as a competitive list, as the win was mostly lucky. However, I did learn a few good lessons from fielding it. Instead of fielding all the Orbital Strike relays, I should have just focused on more psyker squads in rhinos. Also, if you add in even one extra warrior into the psyker squads, a perils roll won't give your opponent a free kill point (this happened to me with one of the squads). So I think there's some merit to psykers, just not as the main base of fire in an army, though even that could be made effective. Maybe instead of the mostly useless GM, tack in an Ordo Hereticus =][= with a psyocculum (or whatever it's called) that gives the squad he's with bs 10. That should minimize scatter with that balst at least and you'll be relying just a little bit less on luck of the scatter die.

 

Just my two bits.

SD13