Monstrous creature firing two weapons

[Fang of Morkai]

Allright, first off I am still relatively new to the hobby. I did use the search function but did not find something that awnsered my question. I was a spectator to a game tonight and here is what happened.

 

Eldar vs Grey Knights.

 

The Eldar player said that the Wraithlord (who was equipped with Brightlance and sword) was able to fire two weapons at the same time per Monstrous Creature rule. (I checked the BRB he is correct). But that since the Wraithlord only had a Brightlance he could fire it twice. Now I am still new but I am pretty sure that is a big no-no. And per Eldar rule equipping a second brightlance would make it TL, MC or not and therefore not allowed to fire twice the same weapon.

 

We argued a bit, he mentionned it was debated on the forums (named a few which I will double-check) and the general consensus was that just like the Tyranids weapons (can't remember which one he was talking about, not a Nid expert) it meant firing the same weapon twice.

 

Don't know if my question is clear but it's about as clear as it was explained to us. Quite frankly I am pretty sure of the awnser but I want to see this general consensus first hand.

 

Thoughts?

[Seahawk]

He was incorrect, though there is no rule in the book that disallows firing the same weapon twice (to the best of my searching ability).

 

What matters is the rule itself:

 

"Instead of firing a single weapon, monstrous creatures can fire two of their weapons once per Shooting phase." p.51

 

 

It says "two of their weapons," not "two of their weapons, or the same weapon twice,." 40k is a permissive rule set, which means that if it doesn't say you can, you can't. This rule doesn't say you can fire the same weapon twice, thus you can't.

[Fang of Morkai]

What matters is the rule itself:

 

"Instead of firing a single weapon, monstrous creatures can fire two of their weapons once per Shooting phase." p.51

 

It says "two of their weapons," not "two of their weapons, or the same weapon twice,." 40k is a permissive rule set, which means that if it doesn't say you can, you can't. This rule doesn't say you can fire the same weapon twice, thus you can't.

 

That is how I understood it, as written and intended. He seemed pretty convinced and having less experience I did not push the issue at the moment but chose to investigate as soon as I got back home.

[Acebaur]

40k is a permissive rule set, which means that if it doesn't say you can, you can't. This rule doesn't say you can fire the same weapon twice, thus you can't.

 

It's amazing how often people seem to forget this. When people question it, I often use the example of "the BRB doesn't say I can't spend my movement phase digging a trench and give my unit cover when in the open, doesn't mean I can."

 

Seahawk has it, he can't fire twice.

[Saiisil]

Seahawk is right, to add the only time a unit can fire the same weapon twice in 1 phase is when it has specific rules that allow it to do so. Hint most don't. Next time this happens just ask him where in the rules it says he can fire the same weapon twice in his Codex or the Rulebook.

[greatcrusade08]

it says they can fire two of thier weapons.. thats RAW, if he doesnt have two weapons hes out of luck

[Hellios]

it says they can fire two of thier weapons.. thats RAW, if he doesnt have two weapons hes out of luck

 

Wraithlords always have at least two weapons they can fire (assuming they are in range...) As they have wrist mounted shuriken catapults... or flamers... guess which weapon option I go for ^^.

[thade]

People above me here have already clarified how the rule itself is to be interpreted. :D Sometimes I find seeking out a thematic explanation helps me understand and communicate rules like this. This might help you and your opponent picture it.

 

Monstrous Creatures are huge and especially strong, so where a normal infantry creature could only fire one weapon, they can hold and fire two; however, the firing of a weapon takes time (i.e. you squeeze the trigger several times and fire off a short burst, or load and fire a rocket, draw a bead and fire your laser-ma-thingy, etc.) and nothing about their massive size and strength extends the time they have for firing weapons (the Shooting Phase). So they can't really fire the same weapon twice as, after they've fired it once, that time has elapsed and the Shooting Phase is ended. They could fire two weapons simultaneously, which is what their rule allows. <3

 

I hope this is helpful.