Týr Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Hello people of the internet. First post here. Been a stalker for some while, but finally felt it was time to show my true colours. My question is this. How do you interpret the end of Prospero Burns. I'm talking about the part where Hawser talks to Leman Russ and runs off towards a forrest. "There are ten thousand pairs of eyes looking out at me from the shadows of the forest. I am not afraid. I am not afraid of the wolves any more. Behind me, the Wolf King watches me until iv'e disappeared into the trees. 'Until next winter' he says. Does Hawser die? Im thinking about the 'Until next winter' part, but I can't see why he has to die then. They have just been talking about how the stories is needed for the Vlka Fenryka in the future. And it's the last hour before he enters stasis. It has been puzzling me for some time. I personally think it's maby a dream Hawser has in stasis. The conversation is a real memory of that last hour, but the last part where he runs off is something he imagines in his stasis sleep. He dreams about how he never entered stasis, and instead ran free. I would really like to hear your takes on all this, to see if im all wrong, and if there is a "right" answer to that question. I have tried the spoiler tag. Sorry if it didn't work. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeitgeistGlee Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Speaking personally I took it as he was becoming one of the Wulfen, tying in to the claim that there are no wolves on Fenris, they're all degenerated humans/Astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Exactly what was it that raised Leman Russ? Could have been degenerated human- but not degenerated Astartes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917455 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Alinski Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I think of "Until next winter" as "see you in the next life". I think its Russ saying goodbye because he is effectively dying. As for the eyes, I think he is in a dream and I think it’s meant to represent the fallen wolves in their next life. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Exactly what was it that raised Leman Russ? Could have been degenerated human- but not degenerated Astartes. Firstly you must have in mind that all Primarchs pre-discovery lives is clouded in mystery and for good reason. Perhaps Russ' upbringing by wolves is a mask like the one he wear as barbarian king. (No barbarian king without mysteries and a legend just as barbaric). His wolves could be two he himself took care off from when they were cubs, and not wolf brothers he grew up with. IF the "upbringing by wolves" is true then it's most likely it was descendands of the first Fenris colonials, who used the Helix to better survive the world. But somewhere along the way their society collapsed (perhaps from mutation - hence the wolves thay now are) and what remained of them became the fenris barbarian/vikings we see in the begining of Prospero Burns. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 I think of "Until next winter" as "see you in the next life". I think its Russ saying goodbye because he is effectively dying. As for the eyes, I think he is in a dream and I think it’s meant to represent the fallen wolves in their next life. hadn't thought about it as Russ saying until next winter because HE is dying, not Hawser. Perhaps Russ knows he is going to dissapear along the way, but Hawser will live on in stasis millennia to come. After all Russ just said he wasn't going to be around forever, so it would be the last time he saw Hawser. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917474 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Alinski Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I think of "Until next winter" as "see you in the next life". I think its Russ saying goodbye because he is effectively dying. As for the eyes, I think he is in a dream and I think it’s meant to represent the fallen wolves in their next life. hadn't thought about it as Russ saying until next winter because HE is dying, not Hawser. Perhaps Russ knows he is going to dissapear along the way, but Hawser will live on in stasis millennia to come. After all Russ just said he wasn't going to be around forever, so it would be the last time he saw Hawser. HAHA. I ment Kesper because He is just going to wake up and tell storys then sleep again for the rest of his years but thats a really interesting way of looking at it, There is definitetly more to the wolf king than meets the eye. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917497 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrolleif Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I've always read it that it doesn't necessarily mean either one of them are dying. Russ may just realize/foresee that he won't be around the Fang forever, be it alive or dead. Also, I read "next winter" as meaning the wolftime, that Russ fully intends on coming back when things are nearing the end. Edit: If that came out vague I apologize, I'm working off minimal sleep and a massive headache. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917510 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asphael Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I read the "until next winter" in a simple way: Hawser is going to be held in stasis for many years, and Russ forsees that he won't be around anymore by the time Hawser gets out of stasis (if he is ever released by the Wolves), and so, the next time the two of them would meet would be in death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Remember that kesper is a skald so he might only be in stasis for however long a year is on fenris only to be woken to tell the stories and be told the new ones the wolves love so much. The wolves might risk him being awake for a day or two since most of the legion/chapter is gathered. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917787 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Týr Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 I read the "until next winter" in a simple way: Hawser is going to be held in stasis for many years, and Russ forsees that he won't be around anymore by the time Hawser gets out of stasis (if he is ever released by the Wolves), and so, the next time the two of them would meet would be in death. Yeah, but then it just seems odd, that the Wolf King just lets Hawser run off towards the forrest? We're on Fenris, so we have to assume that anything in there will kill Hawser right away. If you read it like: Hawser goin' into stasis, and Wolf King goes away before Hawser wakes up again, this thing where he runs off seems a bit weird to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2917806 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulf Vengis Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I felt Russ knew he would never see Hawser again and so through pack mentality link or psychic vision, perhaps even the dream placed into his head by the tech of the stasis systems Russ is given a chance to say farewell to Hawser. The wolves through out the book seemed to use that expression when their packmates were dying. IIRC even the native Fenrisians used that saying when sending off the dead. To speculate on the eyes in the forest, perhaps those are the eyes of all who slumber deep beneath the Fang. The eyes of all who await the call to arms and the return of Russ. Afterall even the Vylka Fenryka were legion once... We were legion once, though smaller in number than our brothers we fought the enemies of man. We fought and we died. For millenia we shed blood and soul against those who would do harm and evil to our sworn charges. Now in the time of ending we are but a shadow of our former glory. Yet we still stalk the stars and the foes of man still cower at the whispered mention of our name. We are the Sons of Russ and we will hunt our prey until the galaxy is red with the blood of mankinds enemies! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2918041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honda Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 I read the "until next winter" in a simple way: Hawser is going to be held in stasis for many years, and Russ forsees that he won't be around anymore by the time Hawser gets out of stasis (if he is ever released by the Wolves), and so, the next time the two of them would meet would be in death. This seems very plausible to me. The whole running off into the forest seemed more symbolic or an aspect of a dream, not what really occurred. The other thing that I wondered had to do with earlier in the story when that voice mentions that they have "dreamed their dreams a thousand times." Which led me to wonder, are we hearing the story as it is related in the first person, or in fact is this just one iteration of his "dream"? I tend to think the latter, maybe because that seems like a cooler way to end the story. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2918151 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blacksad Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 read it once, and the feeling I had was that Hawser was going to be interred into a dreadnought, deep in the bowels of the fang, where they all slumber, and dream the same dreams over and over again... my interpretation was that he (Hawser) was simply in a semi-lucid state, being greated by Russ as he began his Long Sleep, untill he'd be reawakened to tell his tales (like Bjorn, or "Bear" now) The forest and the eyes indeed being the dreampart, the eyes most likely the friends and battlebrothers he has lived with, both in the Vylka Fenryka as in his earlier life. it's why I'm currently working on a Rifleman dread named Hawser ;) I firmly believe the grasp Horus had on Hawser has been eliminated Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2919899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saa Posted November 9, 2011 Share Posted November 9, 2011 read it once, and the feeling I had was that Hawser was going to be interred into a dreadnought, deep in the bowels of the fang, where they all slumber, and dream the same dreams over and over again... my interpretation was that he (Hawser) was simply in a semi-lucid state, being greated by Russ as he began his Long Sleep, untill he'd be reawakened to tell his tales (like Bjorn, or "Bear" now) The forest and the eyes indeed being the dreampart, the eyes most likely the friends and battlebrothers he has lived with, both in the Vylka Fenryka as in his earlier life. it's why I'm currently working on a Rifleman dread named Hawser :D I firmly believe the grasp Horus had on Hawser has been eliminated Agreed though I felt it was more just regular stasis than being placed in a dreadnought. Would think that was reserved for battle brethren that actually had a lot of valuable combat experiance. But maybe in a dreadnought sarcophagus at least. Also it wasn't actually Horus who had dominion over Hawser was it, it was a daemon of some description made up to look like the Warmaster :) Saa ....or something like that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241508-ending-of-prospero-burns/#findComment-2920056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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