Can deamons die?

[Roma]

From what I read in fluff, they can only be banished to the warp. Does that apply to daemon princes, and can deamons be killed IN the warp (permanantly). What about cchaos gods?

Thanks, always was wondering.

[Castiel]

I believe that they can be eaten and their essences absorbed by other stronger demons in the warp. I think that's the only way to kill them (although they become a part of the stronger demon).

 

Hope this helps :D

[Son of Rawl]

They can but it takes a lot, one instance is in Abnets Eisenhorn trilogy, he completely obliterates Prophaniti but at the cost of his staff

[Olis]

They can but it takes a lot, one instance is in Abnets Eisenhorn trilogy, he completely obliterates Prophaniti but at the cost of his staff

 

Indeed, it's an extremely hard thing to do considering the circumstances shown in the fluff. Incidentally, Prophaniti is the only daemon that I know of in the fluff to suffer actual destruction/obliteration rather than just banishment. I wonder if there are other examples... (are there?)

[Roma]

Well, other deamons seem to be able to do it, because there are a lot of instances of deamons showing fear of death. Eg some battle report in a white dwarf, after (some daemonette) was dragged into the brazen fortress, the (something host) were quick to swear alligeance to (some deamon prince).

[Olis]

Battle reports aren't really fluff, though, brother - I don't think that would count for examples. I can't recall daemons showing a fear of death/dying, the closest I remember is more of a "Curses! Foiled again!" attitude. -_-

[Roma]

That's what I tought, still, how would they have wars in the warp if they cannot die? Surely they can be killed somehow by their brethern. A they are killable in warp or b deamons kill deamons.

[Spacefrisian]

Only if there Chaos god wants it they can be completely annihalated, on that note, they can even be brought back again if they want that.

[Iron Lord]

In the Dark Heresy Rulebook- psychic powers section, Pyromancy discipline, the Holocaust power's text says:

 

"There is no immunity to the fires of Holocaust and Warp Entities, as well as other immaterial creatures, are burned as readily as the fleshbound. Those slain by Holocaust are killed forever."

 

So- maybe that's another way to permanently kill a daemon?

[Kol Saresk]

In The Chapter's Due the Daemon Prince M'Kar is stated to have been permanently slain by a weapon known as the Shard of Erebus which appears to have the ability to sever one's connection to the warp. And since in both instances of its use also required the victims' names, I would think it likely that it was an anathema blade similar to the one mentioned in the HH novels. And since a daemon cannot exist without the warp, it's possible to kill them permanently if they cannot retreat to the Empyrean.

[NoLifeKing]

Daemons cannot be killed, atleast not by any craft that has been revieled to us.

When a daemon is "killed" it's essence returns to warp, where it will in time be reborn according to the will of the chaos gods.

There are different ways to get rid of the daemons in realspace, the usual being filling them with enough bolter rounds... but removing them in this way allows them to be reborn much faster than for example the daemon is banished by sorcerous means.

 

The reason daemons cannot truly be killed is because they aren't like anything else out there in the 40k universe, they are a manifestation of the bad things in the world, such as war, deception, sickness and impurity, and greed.

so aslong as those things exist in the universe, there is no real way to kill a daemon, and they will be endlessly reborn according to the will of their patron god.

 

The only way to actually make daemons disappear would be to remove the darkness of the universe, to bring peace and purity.

But as we all know that in the grim future, there is only war...

[Kol Saresk]

Well even by that statement, it would simply mean that daemonkind could never be destroyed, not that actual daemons couldn't as they are simply manifestations of a greater power that is the actual embodiment of a particular mindset/emotion. So while it is next to impossible, it would not be impossible as Daemons do have a fear of other, more powerful daemons. As can be seen in Blood Gorgons when a Nurgle Greater Daemon is summoned at the same time as Yetsuigei, Yetsuigei retreats because he was afraid that he would be consumed by the greater power. So daemons do have a cannibalistic nature. It may only be restricted to when they need reserves of power or they are attacked by another daemon, but it does exist. Looking back through Dead Sky, Black Sun, there is no mention of the Omphalos Daemonium retreating back to the warp when it was killed. It simply "died". Which again helps give credence to the theory that while a big pain in the royal arse, daemons can be killed. In the case of Prophanti, it required the use of a shard a Chaos power that simply overwhelmed him. In M'Kar's case, it required a weapon that, if I am correctly interpreting what happened to the Newborn, breaks the connection between its victim and the warp, which would be a death sentence to a daemon since it would mean that it could not return to the warp. For the Omphalos Daemonium, it was getting its butt handed to it by the Heart of Blood who then went on to kill a Warsmith and most of his Grand Company. Yetsuigei was afraid of being consumed by a greater warp power.

[NoLifeKing]

When a daemon "dies" in realspace, it's essence will return to the warp. The only way to prevent a daemon from returning to the tides of warp is to seal it off into a different dimension like in the case of Tesseract Labyrinth. And M'kar has been showed to apear even afterwards he was supposedly "killed" by the said sword.

 

However it's true that a stronger daemon can consume the essence of his lesser kinsmen. but that's not what i would count as killing the daemon.

[Kol Saresk]

Actually, the way the fluff is making it look, after he was imprisoned in the Indomitable, M'Kar was able to manifest everywhere but Ultramar. But this is what The Chapter's Due says about his death:

 

 

"M'kar's form shrank, its outline blurring and compressing as every shred of its existence was consigned to destruction. This was true death: oblivion and the terror of non-existence. And the daemon lord knew it. With a last shriek of terror, M'kar's body exploded outwards in a wash of light scraps and horrified awareness of nothingness that awaited it."

 

 

The official Imperial Calendar date for this event was 854999.M41. His latest and last appearance.

[Wolf Priest Haelaeif]

They can be born (birth of Slaanesh, for example), so there must be a way to kill them. Since the way they are born is through a mass of emotions in the aether forming into a daemon, a lack of emotions would most likely kill them.

 

Tau do not have a connection to the warp while still not being nulls like the sisters of silence, so I guess their emotions do not carry into the warp either. So if, for example, the Tau should conquer the galaxy and kill most of the eldar and human populations (whose emotions are the primary source of daemons and chaos gods, since orks create their own - gork and mork - and tyranids... meh, dunno), there would be fewer daemons. So that way, daemons would die.

 

Actually, belief in these deities and spirits is another source for their power, which is probably one of the reasons the Emperor tried to make humanity forget them during the Great Crusade.

[TheDarkApostle]

According to the Chaos Daemon Codex:

 

A Daemon is 'born' when a Chaos God gives up a little of its power to create a separete being. This power binds a collection of senses, thoughts and purposes together, giving a personality and consciousness that moves within the Warp. The Chaos power can reclaim the power and independence it has given to it's Daemon children at any time, thus ensuring their loyalty. It is only through the loss of this power that a Daemon can be truly destroyed, it mind dissolving into the whirls and currents of Warpspace.

 

Which hints that there technically could be more ways to finish a daemon true and proper without said God simply reabsorbing it, however I'd wager it would take ALOT to do it.

 

TDA

[Kol Saresk]

If all it takes is loss of power, then the Grey Knights can capture daemons and use them for batteries so they live an ironic existence of serving mankind before their existence is snuffed out like a candle in a blizzard. I wonder if the Dark Mechanicus has thought about this yet?

[TheDarkApostle]

Now all it depends on how you read the text really.

 

As in, is it only the Gods themselves who can remove the power by reabsorbing it? Or can it be destroyed by some other yet to be disclosed mean(s) as well?

 

Food for thought.

 

TDA

[minigun762]

I read that statement as only the creator can truly destroy the daemon. Now whether or not another daemon from the same creator could destroy a fellow daemon is less clear but as they're both components of the same creator, I would assume so.

 

I don't remember the details of the battle between the Heart of Blood and the Omphalos Daemonium but I believe it might have ended with the absolute destruction of the loser.

[Captain Idaho]

There are a few sources which actually refer to the destruction of Daemons on a permanent basis, but all of them are Warp linked. Essentially destruction of a physical body just releases the warp entity/soul back into the warp, so destruction/death needs to be to be warp based.