m_sinclair9981 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Hi New to the forum and delved deep into the HH books. To me, it seems the whole saga comes about from Erebus (please correct me if I'm wrong). But why? He is a space marine - gene-bred to be loyal to his Chapter and Emperor etc etc. There appears to be no clues or inferences into his intial downfall to Chaos, but surely he must have willingly accepted? He then beguiled his Primarch and was fundamental to the whole series of events that led to the heresy. Can anyone shed light on this, or is Erebus' character not (yet) defined/developed prior to the heresey events - First Heretic, onwards? Or will BL make a piece on Erebus as the second-last installment in the series prior to the final seige on Earth? I'm hoping the latter will be a double/triple bumper novel and within my lifetime! Cheers Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 The First Heretic covers the activities of Erebus & Kor Phaeron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2918610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heru2012 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 I believe its always been Erebus. I wouldn't put it down to "he's a simple marines genebred to be loyal to his legion etc", as we all know that the process is not perfect, it can create errors. If the Primordial Annihilators managed to see a way to tear everything down but needed a foothold to do it, maybe a broken marine would be their conduit? It wasn't just a marine conniving with the primarchs it was most likely a marine powered by chaos. Oh, and in greek mythology Erebus was the Son of Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2918614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_sinclair9981 Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 So maybe Erebus was tainted from when he was initially created. Granted Space Marines may be imperfect, but only one of all the Chapters/troops? Surely with the law of averages in imperfections, Chaos would have tainted one in each Chapter. Too easy to just allow Erebus take the galaxy down. Did he do it intentionally/willingly? or was he idealisitic as his brethren before Chaos got their claws on him? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2918620 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Didn't the Word Bearers IA focus more on Kor Phaeron as the guy who led Lorgar to Chaos after his rebuke by the Emperor? When did Erebus first start to play a major part- in Horus Rising, or before that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2918621 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustermaker Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 The way I take it/see it. Lorgar is Kor Phaeron's biggest victory while Erebus is Kor Phaeron's best student. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2918675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Erebus is a big unknown. I kinda respect him though. He manipulated Horus aka the prime diplomat and expert on human psyche which is basically the biggest feat of entire space marine history. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2918693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Kor Phaeron was the first. He fell to chaos before he was even a marine and then taught Erebus about it. Together they made Lorgar fall then Errbus went out and started teaching everyone about Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2918718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinhorn Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Being Kor was too old to be full Astates and Erebus was able to be one tell me Erebus was One of Kors Alter Boys in the age where the Covenant still ruled I think Dustermaker explains it best Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2918762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Disciple Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Thats the weird thing about Kor, Erebus and Lorgar, they were all brought up to worship Chaos as part of the Covenant until Lorgar's Emperor epiphany. So in reality Lorgar was allready corrupt, all it took was Kor and Erebus to ask "well if the Emperor isnt a god, what about the old faith. Is there any truth in it cause we met all these cultures with similar beliefs?" Kinda seems like the Emperor missed a trick there. Disciple Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2919240 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 That and Kor admitted to Lorgar that he never believed the Emperor to be a God, and still practised the old faith after finding evidence of it on countless other worlds Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2919302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watch-commander Albus Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Thats the weird thing about Kor, Erebus and Lorgar, they were all brought up to worship Chaos as part of the Covenant until Lorgar's Emperor epiphany.So in reality Lorgar was allready corrupt, all it took was Kor and Erebus to ask "well if the Emperor isnt a god, what about the old faith. Is there any truth in it cause we met all these cultures with similar beliefs?" Kinda seems like the Emperor missed a trick there. Disciple I do not really agree. Lorgar was humiliated by his father and the Ultramarines. He learned the hard way that his father, the Emperor, was not a god or at least not a god that wanted to be praised, worshipped and honoured as a god. At the same time Lorgar always had a need to be the first worshiper, the arch-priest of a religion. You could say that the Emperor created him for that purpose (why is still unclear to me) and that his growing up on Colchis was a catalyst for Lorgar. Having this deep hole in his psyche, the inability to fulfil what Lorgar thinks to be his life-purpose, he turns again to his foster-father, the one that always knew what to do before the arrival of the emperor on Colchis. Kor-Phaeron is an opportunist, he knows that his adopted son is at his best when he is spreading faith and conquering in the name of religion. Neither is Kor-Phaeron a trusting person, so he always kept the old religion card up his sleeve. He suggests turning back the old ways to Lorgar. Lorgar, in the darkest depths of his personal crisis, accepts the way out given by Kor-Phaeron. Erebus, in my eyes, is weak and just a loyal follower and Lorgar's toady. There is not much to it. He is the first chaplain of his legion and will do everything to please his primarch. As soon as he sees Kor-Phaeron suggesting the old ways, he sees his primarch living up again. So he accepts this change of course and becomes the first and best student of the dark arts. In short, Kor-Phaeron does not care about which god or power Lorgar turns to. Lorgar corrupts himself with his stubborn search for a power to worship. And Erebus is Lorgar's best disciple. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2919305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
esinhorn Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I Disagree with that Lorgar is the Spiritual head of them but Erebus is far from just a toady. In all honesty he is the real First Heretic. Kor believes in many Gods just that the Emp is the strongest,he seems to me all about control behind the scenes he even has Lorgar wrapped around his thumb before he went on the Pilgrimage. Erebus has always worshiped the Old Gods and they have probally been talking to him all his life too, a kind of a profit as you will. It would explain why he was close to Kor as a child in the first place. The Deamon in Argel Tal says he is a chosen of the Dark Gods when Argel wants to kill him. Logar is herald of Chaos but every dirty nasty backhanded sceme of the Heresy is all Erebus's handywork Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2919498 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodanshi Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 The First Heretic covers the activities of Erebus & Kor Phaeron. Yeah… but even in that book the two seemed like shadowy and mysterious figures. Even when faced with what they saw as The Truth, the other Word Bearers didn’t necessarily trust Erby and KP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2939332 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyear Posted December 14, 2011 Share Posted December 14, 2011 I have to agree with several posters here. But just to set up a basic 'time-line' A. Lorgar arrives on Colchis B. Kor Phaeron begins to teach Lorgar and finds that his new student is vastly superior to everything C. Lorgar has his Emperor epiphany and wages his own 'Great Crusade' on Colchis, cementing Emperor worship. D. Lo and Behold Emp Arrives E. Lorgar's foster father and the man who taught him everything is gene-hanced and made superior so he can continue on with Lorgar (This is Kor) F. Kor Phaeron knows damn well that there are dark gods in the aether but goes along with Lorgar for now G. Lorgar is chastised by the Emperor and the Ultramarines H. Lorgar loses his faith in the Emperor and Kor steps in. Together with his prize student (Erebus) K&E introduce Lorgar to the old faith again. I. With Lorgar now firmly on the path of the Dark Gods Erebus is sent out to other legions, starting the brotherhood we are introduced to in Horus Rising (aka, Lodges) J. Erebus continues to play the role of council, effectively helping in turning Horus to the dark gods as well. I assume that he remains on as a personal mentor/guide/'mournival' member to Horus K. After the failure at Terra and their 'retreat' into the Eye, Erebus rejoins Kor on Sicarus where Lorgar secludes himself from his Sons. Together they create the Dark Council we see in Ant. Reynolds' Word Bearer trilogy and the pair effectively take control of the Legion. That's what I see happening. Like in really broad strokes. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2944317 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fang of Morkai Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 You might want to look into the short story - The prisonner from Tales of the Dark Millenium On a dying prison world, an inquisitor and his Grey Knights bodyguards visit the most dangerous inmate of the facility – Erebus of the Word Bearers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2945032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 You might want to look into the short story - The prisonner from Tales of the Dark Millenium On a dying prison world, an inquisitor and his Grey Knights bodyguards visit the most dangerous inmate of the facility – Erebus of the Word Bearers. W.T.F. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2945269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 You might want to look into the short story - The prisonner from Tales of the Dark Millenium On a dying prison world, an inquisitor and his Grey Knights bodyguards visit the most dangerous inmate of the facility – Erebus of the Word Bearers. W.T.F. WLK http://www.blacklibrary.com/all-products/T...Millennium.html The extract is a different short story staring Erebus as well, digging for artifacts. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2945363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Son of Rawl Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Also on an interesting note, a small tid bit in Aurelian. Lorgar is standing before Kairos Fateweaver and another herald, they both state that at this one moment in time they can only speak the truth, only problem though is that they are both telling a different story to the other. One thing they do agree on however is that they talk about the possible deaths of Lorgars. 1. Leman kills him 2. He and his legion are poisened and die out 3. Kor Phaeron poisens him on Colchis after he understands he can no longer manipulate Lorgar That really shows who is responsible for corrupting Lorgar, Lorgar maybe the figure head but Kor Phaeron is the real puppet master here, Erebus, while a prominant figure is still following the orders of Phaeron Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2945445 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 i'm rooting for #1, because i am a son of russ and i think it would be delicious irony after Russ spoke out in his favor as mentioned in "The First Heretic" WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241579-erebus-fluffbackground/#findComment-2945835 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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