OptiMAT Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 So, an Assault Squad without Jump packs can take a Drop Pod or Rhino for free. So can they take a Razorback for +5 or what? Cheers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 No. It doesn't say they can take a Razorback, so they cannot take a Razorback. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptiMAT Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Fairy snuff. Yeah, looking at the troop choices it does have to say Razorback to allow it which makes it all come together. I was just assuming everything that was Rhinoable was Razorbackable. Something else about the Rhino that baffles the newcomer... It says it's default wargear is Stormbolter, but you can also buy a Pintle mounted... so does this mean 1x Stormbolter = 10 pts or 2x Stormbolter = 10 pts or that you could never have 2 Stormbolters and you dont pay anything? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander S. Caesare Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 alright. i believe that the squad is rhinoable. but razorbackable? overall, why the assault squad w/o jpacks? personally, that ruins the point of quick CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 It would be nice if the Assault Squad could take a Razorback, but sadly, they cannot. A Rhino comes standard with a storm bolter. That is "free" within the cost of the Rhino itself. You can then buy a second storm bolter for the cost listed in the unit entry. This storm bolter is "pintle mounted" - which just means, if you don't know, that it's on that bit of metal sticking out of the turret ring that a crew member can operate, and means nothing in terms of rules, other than being a storm bolter (and you can model it on the tank however you want, even not on a pintle!) For the cost of the pintle mounted storm bolter you end up with a second, and therefore two, storm bolters. However, unless you really have nothing to spend the points on, there's usually very little benefit to taking a second storm bolter on a Rhino - i.e. usually there's far better things to spend the points on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918877 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiisil Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 If we were talking about the Blood Angels Assault squads they can take any dedicated transport at a 35 point discount if they drop their jump packs and go mounted, Razorback included. I am not so sure about other C:SM, C:SW, C:BT, or C:DA though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918879 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 overall, why the assault squad w/o jpacks? personally, that ruins the point of quick CC. One word mate: Landraiders. Take the jump packs off, load them into a Land Raider - which you can do by buying one from Heavy Support and embarking the squad in it either during deployment, or on turn one. They gain the firepower, speed and protection of the Land Raider, and can assault out of it. If you take the packs off and stick them in a Rhino, you can still gain an element of protection, with the speed of jump packs, and you can still assault out of it if the Rhino hasn't moved. It's a perfectly viable option and doesn't lose you any speed. If we were talking about the Blood Angels Assault squads they can take any dedicated transport at a 35 point discount if they drop their jump packs and go mounted, Razorback included. I am not so sure about other C:SM, C:SW, C:BT, or C:DA though. As this is the Tactica Astartes forum, and not the Blood Angels forum, I was assuming that the original poster was talking about Codex: Space Marines. However I see your point in bringing this up, if not to query the original poster then to inform him that it is an option if he uses a different codex. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
OptiMAT Posted November 7, 2011 Author Share Posted November 7, 2011 Thanks for the responses. And sorry for putting it in the wrong place Admins. P.S. as far as them without jump packs goes I intend to make them interchangeable and move the Rhino around the army depending on situation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918884 Share on other sites More sharing options...
fivepointedstar Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 What Codex are you talking about first question.. If its Codex: SM then a dedicated transport is also a Razorback as listed in the dedicated transport list. And If so the points drop 35 for a non JP squad so that means a rhino, and or a DP is free, but you will pay extra for the razorback plus the armament. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918885 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 What Codex are you talking about first question..If its Codex: SM then a dedicated transport is also a Razorback as listed in the dedicated transport list. And If so the points drop 35 for a non JP squad so that means a rhino, and or a DP is free, but you will pay extra for the razorback plus the armament. In Codex: Space Marines an Assault Squad cannot take a Razorback as transport at all, whether they have jump packs or not, and whether they pay the full price for it or a reduced price. It is not in their unit entry that they may take a Razorback, so they cannot take one. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saiisil Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 If you take the packs off and stick them in a Rhino, you can still gain an element of protection, with the speed of jump packs, and you can still assault out of it if the Rhino hasn't moved. It's a perfectly viable option and doesn't lose you any speed. IIRC if a unit disembarks from a vehicle that is neither Open-top nor has the Assault Vehicle special rule it doesn't matter if the vehicle moves or not the disembarking unit may not assault. As this is the Tactica Astartes forum, and not the Blood Angels forum, I was assuming that the original poster was talking about Codex: Space Marines. However I see your point in bringing this up, if not to query the original poster then to inform him that it is an option if he uses a different codex. While this is the Tactica Astrates it is still a rules quarry in the Official Rules sub-forum (at least where I found it) this is why I brought up a different codex aside from C:SM Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 Im kicking this to tactica, since thats where its headed in thread. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koremu Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 This is one of the many things that Ward left out of the SM codex but "fixed" for the blood angel one Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918911 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Rik Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 If you take the packs off and stick them in a Rhino, you can still gain an element of protection, with the speed of jump packs, and you can still assault out of it if the Rhino hasn't moved. It's a perfectly viable option and doesn't lose you any speed. IIRC if a unit disembarks from a vehicle that is neither Open-top nor has the Assault Vehicle special rule it doesn't matter if the vehicle moves or not the disembarking unit may not assault. I'm afraid you remember wrong. If the vehicle has not moved that turn, the unit may move and make an assault after it disembarks. Only if the vehicle has moved that turn prior to the unit disembarking, and the vehicle is neither open topped nor an assault vehicle, can the unit not assault. The rules have been like this for a couple of editions now. The exception is Drop Pods where they count as open topped, but the unit that disembarked cannot assault in the same turn in which it disembarked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2918915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 I use packless assault marines in a Rhino pretty frequently; it's not a new idea by any means. Khorne Bezerker players have been doing it for years. :confused: Drive up in the Rhino, wait for a turn, charge next turn. Zerkers have nice stat lines and BA have Apothecary support, so they are really more cut out for this use case, but it doesn't mean a vanilla Assault squad can't do it...it just means they would benefit greatly from tac squad presence when they do it. Really, the reverse is the point: the assault squad is there to counter-charge in when a tac squad is getting hammered on. They also have bolt pistols and can take flamers to offer support fire. It's true that a jump pack squad is more mobile than one in a Rhino, if only because one lucky shot doesn't deprive them of their mobility. The difference is that while they're in a Rhino they're virtually immune to small arms fire, many psychic powers, and lots of other nasty stuff. (You know, the usual reasons your marines would hide in a Rhino.) The real question is, while "because they're awesome" is a perfectly valid reason to field them, its not a tactical one. :angry: So, what's the plan? What do you want them to do? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241592-assault-wo-jump-pack/#findComment-2919094 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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