New Dark Angels Audio Drama

[Vazzy]

So the Dark Angels won the vote for a new story.

 

Here's the description on the page;

 

 

This image comes from the talented hands of Cheoljoo Lee, the artist who produced the awesome Salamanders covers and works on the Warhammer Heroes series. As we’ve come to expect from Cheoljoo, this new artwork is a stunning rendition of a Space Marine that really captures the essence of the Chapter.

 

The story focuses on an Imperial Guard veteran, Reagan Antigone, who is being honoured for his actions in a long-ago battle against the forces of Chaos.

But when his old comrade, a Dark Angels Space Marine, appears for the celebration, Antigone’s account of the victory is called into question. As is usual with the enigmatic Dark Angels, not all is as it seems, and shadowy figures from the past come back to haunt the veteran Guardsman.

 

Malediction will be released in August next year.

 

 

Here's the link as well: http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/The-votes-are-in.html

 

Also it looks like Cypher in the background...I'm excited, even though I've never heard of the author.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

August next year, so much to live through before that comes out. :/

[Menkeroth]

Sounds great! And yes, i also think that the only one can look in such a way as this man at the back ;) But so long to wait :(

[ForTheLion]

wooo :lol: rly excited here!

[lost_angel]

Dodgy hooded guy with two pistols? I agree; that's got to be Cypher.

[Zincite]

Don't like the artwork. Far too heroic for Dark Angels. And Cypher looks rather like he's just been refused a cookie from the biscuit barrel unless you look closely.

 

Only thing I can find on the author is that he appears to have edited a few of the short story books. Anyone have any idea what his writing's like?

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Far too heroic for Dark Angels.

 

If we don't put up a front every now and then, people would start to ask questions. :lol:

[Zincite]

Far too heroic for Dark Angels.

 

If we don't put up a front every now and then, people would start to ask questions. :lol:

I suppose... :P

 

But I still don't like it. It looks faaaaaarrrrr too much like the Grey Knights 'epic' artwork for my liking.

[Grimdarkness]

Dang it where's the evil master mind moustache cypher sported in the chaos dex.

[Zincite]

Dang it where's the evil master mind moustache cypher sported in the chaos dex.

He does seem to have a line under his nose, which might possibly be a thin mustache.

 

He looks too young. Apparently, 10'000 years of running around the galaxy doesn't make a guy look all that old. [/grumpyoldgit]

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I like it, just your standard DA killing Xenos/Heretics looking like a heroic Space Marine fulfilling the Imperial Propoganda...but whats under the surface behind that heroic facade???

 

I am definetly looking forward to this

[Phoebus]

While I don't like the artwork specifically, it's not because I'm opposed to "heroic" artwork for the Dark Angels... That brother looks too "generic" to me, is all.

 

I like to think of the Dark Angels as being heroic-looking in the sense of them having knightly accouterments on their power armour (especially where Veterans are concerned), but also being contrasted by grim-looking Interrogator-Chaplains, Chaplains, and Librarians. This carries over to their demeanor, as well: honorable, knightly fellows who nonetheless have to bear the burdens of dark secrets and thus act in a way contrary to the way they would rather do so. Think of Jeremiah and his kill-team from "Sons of Fenris", for instance.

 

That having been said, I know my vision of the Chapter is not necessarily in line with what has been historically presented by the majority of the novels, game material, etc.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

I know my vision of the Chapter is not necessarily in line with what has been historically presented by the majority of the novels, game material, etc.

 

Nah, you nailed it.

 

I believe the issue here is, the battle brother in question has not yet earned enough bling. :D

[Zincite]

I like to think of the Dark Angels as being heroic-looking in the sense of them having knightly accouterments on their power armour (especially where Veterans are concerned), but also being contrasted by grim-looking Interrogator-Chaplains, Chaplains, and Librarians. This carries over to their demeanor, as well: honorable, knightly fellows who nonetheless have to bear the burdens of dark secrets and thus act in a way contrary to the way they would rather do so.

This is a real Dark Angel!

[Captain Semper]

Well, I'd rather have them anti-heroic... You know, they do what a hero does (be brave, take risks, adhere to a code and so on) but for the wrong reasons. Unlike knights they do what they do to pursue their own ends -not to protect the weak or save damsels but to atone for their shame on very personal and selfish way. They choose to go this way consciously. They could have come clean and suffer the consequences but they choose not to. They'd rather stay in the shadows and pursue their self serving "quest" because in their view this is the highest service they can offer the Emperor... Lets just hope Cypher doesnt make it to Terra any time soon!

 

This need that many (the majority?) share, to make 40k DAs noble on some level seems to me entirely wrong.

[Cactus]

The trouble with the dark secret and personal quest for redemption etc is that, although they're defining characteristics of the chapter, most Dark Angels aren't aware of the Fallen. Your average power-armoured infantry Dark Angel (70% of the chapter?) is stubborn, tenacious and unquestioningly loyal but otherwise much like his cousins in any other chapter. None of these things translate well into visual imagery.

[Captain Semper]

The trouble with the dark secret and personal quest for redemption etc is that, although they're defining characteristics of the chapter, most Dark Angels aren't aware of the Fallen. Your average power-armoured infantry Dark Angel (70% of the chapter?) is stubborn, tenacious and unquestioningly loyal but otherwise much like his cousins in any other chapter. None of these things translate well into visual imagery.

 

You're right.

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

I don't know about the rest, but having the DAs always anti-heroic and hunting down old Chaos Marines gets old and one-dimensional fast. To me, it makes them look all the more profound if they're raised as honorable, if somewhat aloof Space Knights. But, their honor is besmirched by the deeds of a number of their predecessors... And for the First, the Honored, the Sons of the Lion.. Such a thought is anathema. And they know "coming clean" would mean dragging the name of their Chapter in the filth. Perhaps excommunication and extermination would follow, some factions would certainly call for it. For all their perceived mystery and unreliability, they're still better off than "coming clean". But they're also a chapter of heroes who refuse to back down in the face of the enemy, whomever it may be, and whatever the cost. When they know their time has come, they accept it gracefully and take down as many of the enemy as they can with them.

 

One successor Chapter already hunts down the Fallen almost to the exclusion of all other matters. The Dark Angels themselves are not that Chapter. Another is famous for having liberated an entire sub-sector from the particularly appalling domination of a Xenos species and regularly spearheads Crusades. The Dark Angels are not that Chapter either. Rather, as Primogenitor Chapter, they would embody both the drive to hunt down the Fallen, and the crusading zeal to rid the galaxy of those that would enslave and destroy mankind. To some of us, they might seem cruel and "not noble" for undergoing a manhunt for centuries.. All the worst when it leads up to a man seeking a redemption at odds with what they have planned. And certainly their methods are very harsh and pitiless... But are the people they "redeem" devoid of guilt? Didn't they choose to forfeit their vows of loyalty for the sake of joining the side of Heresy? Would a noble knight rest easy, knowing his heritage has such an immense stain so close to its roots? Wouldn't he do all he can to erase it, if he knew it to be possible? And then, there's the matter of what kind of deal some of the Fallen may have struck with Chaos... Perhaps the Hunt has more than a merely redemptive aspect, and whatever evils the Watchers of Caliban fought against are in league with the Fallen. Ultimately, the values that would push them to an existence of honor and self-sacrifice are the same values that make destroying the very worst members of their Legion such an important matter. And at times they have to choose the lesser stain to their image, to avoid the crisis that widespread knowledge of the Fallen would bring.

 

For all their darkness, they've managed to reach the 41st millennium as a celebrated, heroic Chapter. Writing them off as solely paragons of virtue or selfish torturers is doing their lore a disservice... they are what they have to be when the situation dictates. And sometimes the deeds done by force of necessity will plague them for the rest of their lives.

 

... And this became a bit of a rant. Sorry 'bout that. :ph34r:

[MadDoc]

I don't know about the rest, but having the DAs always anti-heroic and hunting down old Chaos Marines gets old and one-dimensional fast. To me, it makes them look all the more profound if they're raised as honorable, if somewhat aloof Space Knights. But, their honor is besmirched by the deeds of a number of their predecessors... And for the First, the Honored, the Sons of the Lion.. Such a thought is anathema. And they know "coming clean" would mean dragging the name of their Chapter in the filth. Perhaps excommunication and extermination would follow, some factions would certainly call for it. For all their perceived mystery and unreliability, they're still better off than "coming clean". But they're also a chapter of heroes who refuse to back down in the face of the enemy, whomever it may be, and whatever the cost. When they know their time has come, they accept it gracefully and take down as many of the enemy as they can with them.

 

One successor Chapter already hunts down the Fallen almost to the exclusion of all other matters. The Dark Angels themselves are not that Chapter. Another is famous for having liberated an entire sub-sector from the particularly appalling domination of a Xenos species and regularly spearheads Crusades. The Dark Angels are not that Chapter either. Rather, as Primogenitor Chapter, they would embody both the drive to hunt down the Fallen, and the crusading zeal to rid the galaxy of those that would enslave and destroy mankind. To some of us, they might seem cruel and "not noble" for undergoing a manhunt for centuries.. All the worst when it leads up to a man seeking a redemption at odds with what they have planned. And certainly their methods are very harsh and pitiless... But are the people they "redeem" devoid of guilt? Didn't they choose to forfeit their vows of loyalty for the sake of joining the side of Heresy? Would a noble knight rest easy, knowing his heritage has such an immense stain so close to its roots? Wouldn't he do all he can to erase it, if he knew it to be possible? And then, there's the matter of what kind of deal some of the Fallen may have struck with Chaos... Perhaps the Hunt has more than a merely redemptive aspect, and whatever evils the Watchers of Caliban fought against are in league with the Fallen. Ultimately, the values that would push them to an existence of honor and self-sacrifice are the same values that make destroying the very worst members of their Legion such an important matter. And at times they have to choose the lesser stain to their image, to avoid the crisis that widespread knowledge of the Fallen would bring.

 

For all their darkness, they've managed to reach the 41st millennium as a celebrated, heroic Chapter. Writing them off as solely paragons of virtue or selfish torturers is doing their lore a disservice... they are what they have to be when the situation dictates. And sometimes the deeds done by force of necessity will plague them for the rest of their lives.

 

... And this became a bit of a rant. Sorry 'bout that. :ph34r:

Brilliantly said WatchCaptainAzrael. Hear, hear.

[Brother-Sergeant Bohemond]

I don't know about the rest, but having the DAs always anti-heroic and hunting down old Chaos Marines gets old and one-dimensional fast. To me, it makes them look all the more profound if they're raised as honorable, if somewhat aloof Space Knights. But, their honor is besmirched by the deeds of a number of their predecessors... And for the First, the Honored, the Sons of the Lion.. Such a thought is anathema. And they know "coming clean" would mean dragging the name of their Chapter in the filth. Perhaps excommunication and extermination would follow, some factions would certainly call for it. For all their perceived mystery and unreliability, they're still better off than "coming clean". But they're also a chapter of heroes who refuse to back down in the face of the enemy, whomever it may be, and whatever the cost. When they know their time has come, they accept it gracefully and take down as many of the enemy as they can with them.

 

One successor Chapter already hunts down the Fallen almost to the exclusion of all other matters. The Dark Angels themselves are not that Chapter. Another is famous for having liberated an entire sub-sector from the particularly appalling domination of a Xenos species and regularly spearheads Crusades. The Dark Angels are not that Chapter either. Rather, as Primogenitor Chapter, they would embody both the drive to hunt down the Fallen, and the crusading zeal to rid the galaxy of those that would enslave and destroy mankind. To some of us, they might seem cruel and "not noble" for undergoing a manhunt for centuries.. All the worst when it leads up to a man seeking a redemption at odds with what they have planned. And certainly their methods are very harsh and pitiless... But are the people they "redeem" devoid of guilt? Didn't they choose to forfeit their vows of loyalty for the sake of joining the side of Heresy? Would a noble knight rest easy, knowing his heritage has such an immense stain so close to its roots? Wouldn't he do all he can to erase it, if he knew it to be possible? And then, there's the matter of what kind of deal some of the Fallen may have struck with Chaos... Perhaps the Hunt has more than a merely redemptive aspect, and whatever evils the Watchers of Caliban fought against are in league with the Fallen. Ultimately, the values that would push them to an existence of honor and self-sacrifice are the same values that make destroying the very worst members of their Legion such an important matter. And at times they have to choose the lesser stain to their image, to avoid the crisis that widespread knowledge of the Fallen would bring.

 

For all their darkness, they've managed to reach the 41st millennium as a celebrated, heroic Chapter. Writing them off as solely paragons of virtue or selfish torturers is doing their lore a disservice... they are what they have to be when the situation dictates. And sometimes the deeds done by force of necessity will plague them for the rest of their lives.

 

Brilliantly put old boy. Exactly how I see them.

[Captain Semper]

I guess what I said earlier is correct, i.e. a lot of DA fans seek redeeming characteristics in order see them in a nobler light. To me the DAs are borderline. That's what sets them apart. Everything not involving the Fallen is a cover up or a side-show. If they have spear time they'll defend an Imperial world against Xenos but only if that does not conflict with their hidden agenda. Because when there is a question of pursuing the Fallen or defend Imperial citizens the DAs will always go for the former.

 

And they know "coming clean" would mean dragging the name of their Chapter in the filth. Perhaps excommunication and extermination would follow, some factions would certainly call for it.

 

True. It's called placing yourself above the established authority of the Imperium. Because DAs feel they know better. But that's just wrong if overtly you recognize said authority and try to adhere to its edicts of protecting the Imperium. Who's to say DAs do not deserve the judgement of the Imperium? Who places them above it? The DAs do :lol:.

 

But they're also a chapter of heroes who refuse to back down in the face of the enemy, whomever it may be, and whatever the cost. When they know their time has come, they accept it gracefully and take down as many of the enemy as they can with them.

 

Agreed. However the hero/anti-hero distinction is not that of actions but rather aims and motivations. Chaos marines are good examples of that. They are not cowards and they can fight against the odds and even have (in some cases) a code of honor of sorts...

 

One successor Chapter already hunts down the Fallen almost to the exclusion of all other matters.

 

I think you are referring to the Disciples of Caliban. Well they are set up to hunt down Cypher not Fallen in general. That's what all Unforgiven do.

 

Rather, as Primogenitor Chapter, they would embody both the drive to hunt down the Fallen, and the crusading zeal to rid the galaxy of those that would enslave and destroy mankind. To some of us, they might seem cruel and "not noble" for undergoing a manhunt for centuries..

 

Well talking of Primogenitors, Angels of Vengeance embody the single mindedness for the cause, Angels of Redemption display a zeal to right the ancient wrongs of the DAs and Angels of Absolution do not share the shame. The Unforgiven are almost a secret Legion. Trying to say that every Unforgiven chapter can be bad but the DAs themselves have redeeming characteristics is interesting but utterly unsupported by fluff and I find it impossible to agree. And yes, having torture as an accepted method of interrogation sort of makes you cruel and "not noble".

 

All the worst when it leads up to a man seeking a redemption at odds with what they have planned. And certainly their methods are very harsh and pitiless...

 

Agreed! And this is what makes them appealing to me. Having heroic marines with a minor secret out there does not really differentiate them enough from the mainstream UMs & Co.

 

But are the people they "redeem" devoid of guilt? Didn't they choose to forfeit their vows of loyalty for the sake of joining the side of Heresy? Would a noble knight rest easy, knowing his heritage has such an immense stain so close to its roots? Wouldn't he do all he can to erase it, if he knew it to be possible? And then, there's the matter of what kind of deal some of the Fallen may have struck with Chaos... Perhaps the Hunt has more than a merely redemptive aspect, and whatever evils the Watchers of Caliban fought against are in league with the Fallen.

 

Well the nature of the Fallen is a complicated issue. Despite of how the Fallen see themselves (and there are probably more than one ways that they see themselves), the DAs are out to get them! Cypher, as the exemplar of the Fallen, you have to agree is a mystery in itself. Is he good, is he bad, what's his deal? And a noble knight will indeed try to erase the stain on his honour but not by letting a nearby village being destroyed to a man as a direct consequence of his actions. Or he wouldn't be noble.

 

For all their darkness, they've managed to reach the 41st millennium as a celebrated, heroic Chapter. Writing them off as solely paragons of virtue or selfish torturers is doing their lore a disservice... they are what they have to be when the situation dictates. And sometimes the deeds done by force of necessity will plague them for the rest of their lives.

 

... And this became a bit of a rant. Sorry 'bout that. ;)

 

 

The reason they've managed to remain a celebrated and heroic Chapter is because of politics and their ability to cover up. As I've said in similar discussions in the past, to me DAs in 40k are more akin to a modern day secret agency rather than a medievial noble knight.

 

Expressing your views on DAs was hardly a rant - it's interesting and enjoyable for me to read and discuss other people's views on our Chapter(s).

[WatchCaptainAzrael]

Sir, you've picked apart my post in a way that gives each individual statement a new meaning without the support of the whole. There's a specific term for that, but I'm not going to research it. If you feel the need to view the Dark Angels and Successors as pitch black torturers and deceivers, ignoring all other aspects of their lore, then I won't challenge your views further.

[Phoebus]

Here's why I side with WatchCaptainAzrael:

 

Codex: Dark Angels (4E), pg 12 -

"The Dark Angels can go for years without hearing any rumours that might lead to the capture of one or more of the Fallen." (emphasis mine)

 

pg 17 -

"The Ravenwing might go decades with little or not success in tracking down their targets."

 

Hence, I can't reconcile with this statement:

 

Everything not involving the Fallen is a cover up or a side-show. If they have spear time they'll defend an Imperial world against Xenos but only if that does not conflict with their hidden agenda.

 

I think the examples/evidence of campaigning found in the Codex for the Dark Angels and their (known) Successors indicate that engaging the enemies of the Imperium is not something they do in their "spare time". I think fighting the foes of the Imperium is the status quo, but that the importance of finding the Fallen is so great that when clues come up they become the priority. Furthermore, I think this is the case precisely because years or even decades might pass before the next rumor surfaces. Even then, though, it's worth pointing out that their reactions to such situations are not uniform throughout the Unforgiven. Page 75 of the Codex, for instance, notes that the Angels of Redemption do this sort of thing (that is, abandon their mission at hand and go running after the Fallen) far more often than the Dark Angels.

 

And even then, the majority of an Unforgiven Chapter (well, with the obvious exceptions, such as the Disciples of Caliban) is not going to be affected by these new priorities.

 

Now, I want to reiterate that the preponderance of the fluff focuses on the Dark Angels being dark, secretive, driven by their hunt for the Fallen, etc. Nonetheless, I feel there is room to show the Dark Angels in a light that also shows their heritage and traditions, inherited from Calibanite knightly orders. I feel this way because I believe the preponderance of the fluff also focuses on the hunt for the Fallen to an unrealistic degree because that's what makes the Dark Angels unique. In reality, a Battle Company will not see their every action defined by the chase for the Fallen (which is the case with virtually every 40k-era story other than "The Purging of Kadillus"). Even an Interrogator-Chaplain is unlikely to see more than a handful of Fallen in all the centuries he's likely to live.

 

That doesn't mean that the preponderance of the fluff shouldn't focus on this hunt. I've been writing and re-writing a rough draft for a Dark Angels novel for five years now, and OF COURSE there's a Fallen involved. After all, the more you take away the Fallen, the more the Dark Angels end up coming off like different-colored Imperial Fists, or a non-Greco-Roman alternative to the Ultramarines. But it's because most of them DON'T have to deal with the Fallen, and because even those that do only even hear rumours of them once in several years, I don't think the majority of the Chapter should be precluded from featuring the look (at least somewhat knightly) and character (stoically noble, if grim) of their predecessors.

 

Cheers,

P.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Phoebus, you described my feelings exactly... well said.

Sometimes in rfegards to DA people can't see the forest from the trees and focus too much on one perk of their story, at times assuming that the one perk is their story and they do nothing else besides that. I'm sure in 10000 years, DA did not spend 9000 of those idle because there weren't clues on fallen...

[Captain Semper]

Sir, you've picked apart my post in a way that gives each individual statement a new meaning without the support of the whole. There's a specific term for that, but I'm not going to research it.

 

Maybe I should become a politician...

 

If you feel the need to view the Dark Angels and Successors as pitch black torturers and deceivers, ignoring all other aspects of their lore, then I won't challenge your views further.

 

... or the Grand Master of Disciples of Caliban :lol:

 

Joking aside, I don't beleive I distorted what you said a single bit. In fact this is not an argument to be won - or lost. It's a personal presentation on views on lore and it should be treated as such. I just highlighted the points I disagree and explained why. The thing is, 40k lore in general allows for that and DAs are no exception. Not all of us are in the hobby for the same reason and not all of us get the same out of whatever it's written over the years for any particular faction. That's why we have forums. I beleive my take is perfectly valid but I also recognize that many hold different views. I think I made that clear in my previous post.

 

Here's why I side with WatchCaptainAzrael:

 

Codex: Dark Angels (4E), pg 12 -

"The Dark Angels can go for years without hearing any rumours that might lead to the capture of one or more of the Fallen." (emphasis mine)

 

pg 17 -

"The Ravenwing might go decades with little or not success in tracking down their targets."

 

Hence, I can't reconcile with this statement:

 

Everything not involving the Fallen is a cover up or a side-show. If they have spear time they'll defend an Imperial world against Xenos but only if that does not conflict with their hidden agenda.

 

Yes. What I meant is that there is no "OFF" mode to the hunt of the Fallen. It's always "ON". The rest of the activities of the DAs have to fit this overriding agenda. Is the hunt a business that will require the entire strength of the Unforgiven all the time? Of course not. But since there will be no question as to which aim to pursue when the Fallen appear (or seem to appear), to me this means that the rest of their activities are secondary. That's what I meant anyway.

 

I think the examples/evidence of campaigning found in the Codex for the Dark Angels and their (known) Successors indicate that engaging the enemies of the Imperium is not something they do in their "spare time". I think fighting the foes of the Imperium is the status quo, but that the importance of finding the Fallen is so important that when clues come up they become the priority. Furthermore, I think this is the case precisely because years or even decades might pass before the next rumor surfaces. Even then, though, it's worth pointing out that their reactions to such situations are not uniform throughout the Unforgiven. Page 75 of the Codex, for instance, notes that the Angels of Redemption do this sort of thing (that is, abandon their mission at hand and go running after the Fallen) far more often than the Dark Angels.

 

By "spare time" I mean the time they have no Fallen to hunt or clues about the Fallen to follow. It could be a long time. During that time they will obviously follow the general SM mandate to protect the Imperium. However (unlike other loyalists SMs) this is conditional - the condition being the appearence of the Fallen. Then all bets are off. Now about the Unforgiven Chapters having specialties assigned to them in this "hunt the Fallen" agenda, it could be an interesting if it is further explored. Right now it's just not there. They all hunt the Fallen. There are hints that some are more single minded than others but that's about it.

 

And even then, the majority of an Unforgiven Chapter (well, with the obvious exceptions, such as the Disciples of Caliban) is not going to be affected by these new priorities.

 

Disciples were made to hunt Cypher specifically. All Unforgiven participate in the hunt in general. Or maybe you mean that DoCs have a higher percentage of Deathwing initiates in their ranks?

 

Now, I want to reiterate that the preponderance of the fluff focuses on the Dark Angels being dark, secretive, driven by their hunt for the Fallen, etc. I nonetheless feel there is room to show the Dark Angels in a light that also shows their heritage and traditions, inherited from Calibanite knightly orders. I feel this way because I believe the preponderance of the fluff also focuses on the hunt for the Fallen to an unrealistic degree because that's what makes the Dark Angels unique. In reality, a Battle Company will not see their every action defined by the chase for the Fallen (which is the case with virtually every 40k-era story other than "The Purging of Kadillus"). Even an Interrogator-Chaplain is unlikely to see more than a handful of Fallen in all the centuries he's likely to live.

 

You are right. Although Boreas got a good glimpse of one of the most prominent ones. And I think the biggest critisism for "Kadillus" was that it was not a particularly Dark Angely story... Which means you could replace DAs with Silver Skulls (for example) and practically get the same story. Let's face it, DAs participate in a number of actions but the ones that are interesting always involve the Fallen. The rest are just mainstream Codex Marine stuff...

 

That doesn't mean that the preponderance of the fluff shouldn't focus on this hunt. I've been writing and re-writing a rough draft for a Dark Angels novel for five years now, and OF COURSE there's a Fallen involved. After all, the more you take away the Fallen, the more the Dark Angels end up coming off like different-colored Imperial Fists, or a non-Greco-Roman alternative to the Ultramarines. But it's because most of them DON'T have to deal with the Fallen, and because even those that do only even hear rumours of them once in several years, I don't think the majority of the Chapter should be precluded from featuring the look (at least somewhat knightly) and character (stoically noble, if grim) of their predecessors.

 

Agreed. Check your PM ^_^