Has this laready been answered? Jaws vs. Necrons?

[Sol622]

So does the space wolf psychic power Jaws of The World Wolf stop necrons from getting a chance to get back up? The necron players at my shop say it doesnt, but Im inclined to think they are biased.....

 

Thank you.

[Blitzkrieg861]

He is wrong, jaws removes from play... tell hik he can roll for it but they resume play from the core of whatever planet you're fighting on

[Sol622]

He said something about how the new codex says they can get roll for it no matter what. Is that not true then?

[Blitzkrieg861]

No, he is not right.

[Brother Nihm]

Please back it up with rule arguments/quotes to avoid claim vs claim. ;)

[BOBMAKENZIE]

I dont believe a model removed by Jaws is a casualty is it? They are just removed from play and so Reanimation Protocols wouldnt start. (I could be wrong there on Jaws) It hinges on wether Jaws removes the model as a casualty or not and I believe we've discussed that before and concluded no?

[Ranting Fool]

Reanimation Protocols and Ever-living both start with "If a model with the Reanimation Protocols rule is removed as a casualty, there is a chance it will self-repair" Don't know the wording on Jaws but I know things like a Shorkk Attack Gun in an Ork Army could (if Gork or Mork are with them) remove the model without them getting a chance to get back up.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

As a psychic shooting attach, the Rune Priest may trace a straight line along the board, starting from the Rune Priest & ending 24" away.

 

Gose on to say which unit are effected & then

 

If the model fails the test, it is removed from play. Monstrous creatures may subtract one from their dice roll due to their tremendous size & strenght, though rememeber that the roll of a 6 is always a failure

 

Then the Space Wolves FQA has - Page 2

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...Version_1_1.pdf

 

Q. Does Jaws of the World Wolf affect Jetbikes? How

about Artillery? (p37)

A. Yes, because ʻJetbikesʼ is a subcategory of the ʻBikeʼ

unit type. As for Artillery, the crew models may be affected,

but the gun models, being vehicles, are not affected.

 

Q. Does Jaws of the World Wolf allow cover saves? (p37)

A. No – you could take a cover save if the power caused

wounds, but as it does not cause wounds, no cover saves

are allowed.

 

Q. Does Jaws of the World Wolf allow the Rune Priest to

target specific models within squads? (p37)

A. Yes.

 

Q. How wide is the line for the Jaws of the World Wolf

power? (p37)

A. Itʼs a hairline, it does not really have a specific

designated thickness. We like to turn our tape measures

on one side and use their edge, keeping it as straight as

possible of course.

 

Q. Does Jaws of the World Wolf require line of sight?

Does it ignore terrain that blocks line of sight (i.e.,

impassable terrain)? (p37)

A. As a psychic shooting attack, Jaws of the World Wolf

requires line of sight. The Rune Priest must have line of

sight to the first model that the power affects – in effect he

is treated as the target model; the power just happens to

hit everybody else on its way through!

 

Jaws can kill say a Daemon Prince even though it has Eternal Warrior if it fail it I test for exasmple.

 

This post is merely to point out the Jaws of the World Wolf parts & the area that been brought up in the FAQ. I've not read the codex Necrons yet on the rule side, so no idea what there word is.

 

IP

[BOBMAKENZIE]

The Models killed by Jaws are removed from play not removed as casualties and thusly Reanimation Protocols dont work.

 

Thanks IP for posting the Jaws half! :D

[Blitzkrieg861]

Dude it was 2am where I was and had already stated Jaws removes from play, common sense will show you can't roll a dice for a unit that is no longer part of your game. I didn't bother with the FAQ, glad someone else did.

[thade]

This kind of stuff has come up before; in particular, surrounding the definition of the term Casualty (or lack thereof). It gets sticky because it's steeped in a lot of sad oversight. :lol: If memory serves, most references (if not all) to the term casualty are in reference to taking wounds. Consider that Sweeping Advance used to disallow WBB based on the same pretense: that the models aren't removed "as Casualties" but are "Removed from play". Colloquially there is a difference, and it is played that way in my experience.

 

The short of it is: they don't get a roll for things that Remove them from play.

[Gentlemanloser]

While it should be noted, there are some abilities that do 'remove you as a casualty', without wounding or allowing a save (GK Heroic Sacrifice for one), but you would still get a RP roll for it.

[Blitzkrieg861]

But that is where Jaws is different, it is not removed as casualty or causing wounds of any kind. The model is removed from the game entirely. If it is not part of the game any longer, you cannot roll dice for it. This is what makes Jaws, in my opinion, one of the strongest psychic powers in the game!

[Jacinda]

And while we are at it, here are a few other things that will come up.

 

Hex rifle: removed as a casualty. Place a token and get a RP role. In fact if you ever see the term "removed as a casualty" you get the RP token no matter what the flavor text says or what kind of power caused it.

 

Turned into chaos spawn. No RP. The necron player loses control and the model and it is replaced so there is no necron casualty. Once the necron has been changed, it looses the special rules it had and picks up those of a spawn.

 

Turned into a squig: it remains under the necron player's control but it is a squig. This is just a house rule, but with Saint Celestine we have come to the agreement that if the squig dies I can put out a marker but when she stands back up she is still a squig. Its always good for lots of laughs so I strongly suggest you put out a token for the dead squig and RP it if possible. But actually according to RAW it is not a necron (nor Saint Celestine in my example) so it has lost all those special rules associated with those models so when it dies you would not get an RP.

[BOBMAKENZIE]

Turned into a squig: it remains under the necron player's control but it is a squig. This is just a house rule, but with Saint Celestine we have come to the agreement that if the squig dies I can put out a marker but when she stands back up she is still a squig. Its always good for lots of laughs so I strongly suggest you put out a token for the dead squig and RP it if possible. But actually according to RAW it is not a necron (nor Saint Celestine in my example) so it has lost all those special rules associated with those models so when it dies you would not get an RP.

 

 

:rolleyes: That is...amazing...

[Spacefrisian]

Also to note:

 

Remove as casualty implies that they have lost wounds, such as RP repairs those wounds.

 

Jaws requires a test, but no wounds are made, hence the no save option as no actual wounds have been made.

 

 

So how can something be repaired if it aint broken.