Looking forwards to 6th

[Gentlemanloser]

Hi all,

 

Currently, I'm consideirng what shape and style of GK army I'd like to play when 6th hits, and how it might change the game. Based on some of the rumours floating aorund atm. ;)

 

I'm happy to admit, it's got me thinking about using units I currently wouldn't touch wiht a barge pole! Which can only be a good thing! ;)

 

The main rumour I'm focused on (which seems to have some support from the new 'cron 'dex) is units with the DS rule being able to Assault after arriving by Deep Stike. Let's assume for a minute this rule will actually exist (hi hi Flayed ones!).

 

Would it change your army build?

 

Currently, I'm thinking aobut utilising Mordrak (I still think he's the best GK SC! ;)) and Teleport Homers, to get the most out of this change.

 

So what's our options for TH?

 

Librarians, Storm Ravens and Purgation Justicars.

 

And who should we bring into play from DS?

 

Well, Strikes, GKT, Paladin, SR and NDKs have Deep Strike (as do GKGM/BC and Libbies). And we're looking at CC prowess here, so which unit to focus on?

 

Strikes right? They outperform GKT point for point and are more survivable. But in this isntance, if we're planning for CC prowess, I feel that GKT are the better choice here (and a better option than Pallies, as we're looking for the number of attacks we can make when we land), due only to getting 'free' CC weapons.

 

Point for point, you get 2 more attacks out of Strike units (Justicar's base 2 attacks) than an equal cost of Terminators. But Strike are limited to NFS. Where as the GKT can get NDH or the potent NFH for free.

 

For 400 points (before upgrades) you can get 10 GKT, for 20 CC attacks with either NFS/NDH/NFH. For those 400 points Strikes would get 22 CC attacks, but no S8/I6. To get all NFH would up the cost to 500 points.

 

It's a shame Purifiers can't Deep Strike. But if they could, they would become the default no brainer choice here. ;)

 

So, I'm looking at GKT (for once. A unit I would otherwise avoide like the plague!). How do we get TH into the list?

 

We coudl use 2 Librarians, but I like Mordrak. I could attach a Librairan to Mordraks unit. This gives me PC to help bring the GKT in reserve on, more CC attacks when Mordrak lands, and a TH to bring others to his location.

 

Storm Ravens I'm not a fan of. If I'm running them, I might as well use troop embarke din them for my CC punch, and not spend the points on a TH.

 

But Purgation Squads seem like a nice choice! Load them up in a Rhino, Scout if possible, and 12" across the table. Stay inside the Rhino and use the TH on the Justicar to bring GKT down in position to assault. I'm also liking a multi purpose wepaon load out of 2 x Psycannons and 2 x Incinerators. So you can mix and match weapon effectivenss from inside the Rhino. Need to pop a transport for the GKT to assault the embarked units? Use the Pyscannon. Getting close to the enemy, or they approaching to assault your Rhino, Incinerate them.

 

Heh. GKT and Purgation Squads. What is 40K coming to! ;)

 

Of course, there's always Servo Skulls, but I'm not a fan of the randomness.

 

So, how would you build looking forward to the potential of assaulting after Deep Strike in 6th?

 

;)

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

No way a Strike squad is better than GKT.

 

G :sweat:

[Gentlemanloser]

Don't want to derail this thread aobut it, there was a much older thread on this topic, but they are. :sweat:

 

Edit;

 

Original thread is here;

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=226845

 

If you wanted to discuss Strikes versus GKT.

[The Holy Heretic]

What you're forgetting is that the new thing is that DS units actually can get the charge. Which means those termies would dish out 30 cc attacks vs the strikes 42. Now consider that you have twice as many models and the option for combat squading, which allows you more options in deployment. And thats without considering the effect on the shooting phase -_-

 

So I'd say, if you want TDAs go with paladins still :P

[Gentlemanloser]

But Pallies would have half the CC attacks, for more points.

 

Another downside to Strikes is you'd need more reserve rolls to get them in.

 

But maybe Strikes are the better option over GKT.

 

Maybe even a mix! ;)

 

How would you deliver THs to make sure you DSed close enough to charge?

[RebG]

If this rumour (deepstrike then assault) is true it will change my GK army as follows:

 

I will stop playing my GK army and destroy everything with the jump pack Angels Sanguine which are taking a temporary back seat. One of the only things they struggle with is that turn of just hanging around after the DS - they get shot to death! Not anymore apparently. Sweet.

 

On a serious note I'll look forward to my Interceptors shunt --> assault. My GKT will have some fun too (and my Strikes, I run both just to avoid the arguments!). I guess the Purifiers and their transports will have to play catchup.

 

<_<

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Its never quite as easy as you first think .

 

G :wallbash:

[Valerian]

If the 6th Edition Rules turn out to look like the rumors, then I'm definitely pursuing a Teleport Attack themed force for my Grey Knights army. Grand Master Valerian, a counts-as Mordrak, will be a staple in the army. With the current edition he only has two drawbacks 1) he lands where he wants, but gets shot at for a turn, because he'll be out in the open, and 2) his Ghost Knights can't take any ranged weapon upgrades. Both of these drawbacks will be negated by 6th Edition rumors as he'll move directly into a 1st turn close combat assault of your chosing, which means that 1) unless his units accidentally eradicates their victim unit(s), then they won't be vulnerable to enemy firepower, and 2) they probably won't spend much of the early game unengaged, so the lack of a Psycannon is a non-issue.

 

I think my early games will see me trying to pull off multi-unit charges with Mordrak and crew, so I can destroy the enemy units in their turn, and not do too much damage to a single unit during my 1st turn.

 

Servo Skulls are going to be sweet, if I'm understanding it all correctly. Deep Strike 7" away from target enemy unit with a Strike Squad or a Terminator Squad designated as Flank Guard on Turn 2. Scatter would normally be 2d6 (from 6" to 12"), but Skulls reduce it to just 1D6. Land safely then Advance 6" into close combat, using Assault Weapon Storm Bolters to pull 3 Force Weapon attacks each on the charge (or 5 Force Weapon attacks each from a unit of Terminators with their now-mandatory Brotherhood Banner). Cast HH for Strength 5. Profit.

 

I'm definitely going to use a regular Terminator Squad, (combined with Strike Squads, and maybe a single Interceptor Squad) as a staple in my lists; especially given the significant nerfing that is supposed to happen to wound allocation, and therefore to Paladins.

 

I would consider Scouting or Outflanking Purgation Squad to forward deploy a Teleport Homer. Giving them either Psycannons or even Incinerators would work well for them. If outflanking, I'd designate them in the Flank Guard (turn 2 arrival), and then designate the other units that I intend to teleport in and assualt in the Rear Guard (turn 3). Mordrak/Valerian casts Psychic Communion to ensure everybody arrives when they are supposed to.

 

I'm seriously looking forward to it. If it turns out to be a big hoax, then Wycked and I are going to develop a new wargame based on the rumors.

 

Valerian

[Something Wycked]

I'm seriously looking forward to it. If it turns out to be a big hoax, then Wycked and I are going to develop a new wargame based on the rumors.

ALL over it! :mellow:

[Gentlemanloser]

On a serious note I'll look forward to my Interceptors shunt --> assault.

 

That's awesome. I had utterly forgetten/discounted Interceptors (Why pay for the more expensive Deep Strike option over Strikes?) and the PT rules. I guess this goes for NDKs as well! ;)

 

(Not got access to the Codex at work, do the PT rules state you arrive using the DS rules without scatter? As the leaked 'dex has a different ruling that would prohibit Assaulting after using the Shunt move)

 

As for the Bangles, Warp Quake. ;)

 

Grand Master Valerian, a counts-as Mordrak, will be a staple in the army.

 

V, would you plan to attach an IC to Mordraks Squad for extra first turn oomph? I know the options are limited to GM/BC or Libby (other SCs aside), but either Psychic Powers or 'nades might be worth the cost? (The Libby could also hold an expensive TH)

 

I'm still not sold on Servo Skulls, even with a 1d6 scatter, you need to not scatter to be sure you'll have the 6" range to charge. It would be terrible to scatter an inch or two away and be just out of range for the charge. :huh:

 

I'd missed the rumours on Flank/Rear guards, would you mind giving a little more detail on them?

 

What you're forgetting is that the new thing is that DS units actually can get the charge. Which means those termies would dish out 30 cc attacks vs the strikes 42.

 

To be honest, I really had! :)

 

If we look at equal points, 5 termies would get 15 attacks from Deep Stike, and 10 Strikes would get 21.

 

Of course, this bonus is lost if you face a unit with Defensive 'nades.

 

Are the extra 6 attacks worth the loss of a NFH/NDH? This is a touch one. Maybe the best option is tactical flexibility, and using a mix of GKT and Strikes. And using the GKT on units with I4+, the Strikes on slower targets where thier I4 won't be such a drawback. :/

 

Now, if the PT rules are different to the leaked Dex, I could totally see using three Interceptor Squads. I'd pay the extra premium for more units to have a 1st turn DS with no scatter that could assault after shunting. But I assume the PT still has the "can't assault after a shunt move" restriction. :(

[Spacefrisian]

I think that rumour about units deepstriking and assaulting wont happen.

 

Whats the point in Vanguard than, GW wants to sell models afterall.

[Gentlemanloser]

Vanguard are used currently?

 

More likely is that the 'nilla Vanguard were a test bed for the ability to Assault after Dsing, much like the Dangle 'dex was a test bed for things to come.

 

I hope the rumour is true, but if it is, one of my mates will dust out his Dameon army and roast everyone (bar the GK!).

[The Holy Heretic]

But Pallies would have half the CC attacks, for more points.

 

Another downside to Strikes is you'd need more reserve rolls to get them in.

 

But maybe Strikes are the better option over GKT.

 

Maybe even a mix! ;)

 

How would you deliver THs to make sure you DSed close enough to charge?

[/]

 

Sure you'd need more reserve rolls with strikes, but you'd also have more chances to actually make those reserve rolls, instead of waiting for your few termies to arrive :) And in the same way, you'd have more chances of getting DS right regardless of Homers, Skulls or Mystics, and you'd be able to hit more places.

 

The downside to strikes are the expensive CC upgrades, but then again you wouldn't want them fighting dedicated cc units, and the option of DS allows you to avoid combat too. For taking true CC units head on, you'd want Paladins/Purifiers with character support anyway. CC between devastators/tactical marines or their like would be determined by force weapons and hammerhands anyway :)

 

Regarding termies vs. paladins, you need to look at their role. TDA infantrys role on the field is their ability to weather fire. Paladins with their extra wound do this better than termies (wounds/points cost). Now add other nifty stuff like WS, increased psychic ability, heavier firepower and the termies quickly lose out. The termies only advantage is their objective grabbing ability, and even this can easily be remedied by getting a GM.

 

Last but not least, you ask about Homers. I wouldn't. I simply wouldn't base one units success on whether another Unit achieves its objective. Also by only aiming for your teleport homers, you lose the advantage of being able to hit anywhere on the board. And again, you're using strikes, not dedicated CC troops, so just fill your enemies with psybolts and whatnots, if they're out of reach :)

[Gentlemanloser]

All good points! :)

[Valerian]

Grand Master Valerian, a counts-as Mordrak, will be a staple in the army.

 

V, would you plan to attach an IC to Mordraks Squad for extra first turn oomph? I know the options are limited to GM/BC or Libby (other SCs aside), but either Psychic Powers or 'nades might be worth the cost? (The Libby could also hold an expensive TH)

 

I'd certainly consider adding a Librarian with Homer, but it wouldnt be an auto-include.

 

I'm still not sold on Servo Skulls, even with a 1d6 scatter, you need to not scatter to be sure you'll have the 6" range to charge. It would be terrible to scatter an inch or two away and be just out of range for the charge. :(

 

I'd missed the rumours on Flank/Rear guards, would you mind giving a little more detail on them?

 

This Google doc version really cleans up the rumored rules; details on reserves (flank and rear guard) are toward the end.

 

6th Edition Rules Summary

 

V

[Gentlemanloser]

Thanks! :)

[Spacefrisian]

@Valerian: nice to put up that doc, but do not keep to that as being the new 6th ed set in stone rules (i doubt you are doing that :)). Just keep youre salt ready.