L30n1d4s Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I think pretty much every other SM based Codex has a Libarian Special Character to compliment their regular Libarians, except Black Templars, who don't even get normal Libarians (Njal = Space Wolves, Tigurius = Space Marines, Ezekiel = Dark Angels, Mephiston = Blood Angels, etc.) While regular GK Libarians are outstanding in their own right, I still think it would be cool (and fluffy... they are a chapter of all Psykers, after all) to have a unique, special character Libarian for GKs. Here is my take on how to do that: Master Librarian Veritas (265 points) WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv 6 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 2+/5++ Wargear: -Terminator Armor -Hood of Purity - Psychic Hood that has a range of 36" and also allows any GK unit within LOS of Veritas to re-roll Psychic Tests which result in Perils of the Warp -Blades of Vengeance - Two Master-Crafted Nemesis Force Swords that give Veritas either +2 Invul in CC, +2 attacks, or +1 attack and +1 Invul in CC; decide which one each assault phase -Stormbolter Special Rules -The Aegis -ATSKNF -Stubborn -Independent Character -Preferred Enemy (Daemons) -Psyker (Master Level 4) Psychic Powers -Hammerhand -Dark Excommunication -Quicksilver -Might of Titan -Sanctuary -Smite -The Shrouding -The Summoning -Vortex of Doom -Warp Rift -Psychic Communion -Titan's Fury - Gives targeted friendly unit within 12" (can be Veritas and his unit if you choose) Fleet and a 12" charge range for that Turn (cast at beginning of own Movement Phase). Those are my thoughts (would have to playtest to figure out if the points cost is realistic or not). So, how would you make a GK Librarian Special Character? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Legend goes that after creating Draigo, Matt Ward himself got too spooked at the prospect of making a powerful Grey Knight Librarian as well, so he decided it would be best just to ease us all in with what we have now. :wallbash: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 That character should clock in at over 400 points. I would name him Grampappy. No pybolt ammo ?? That is an oversight for sure . G :mellow: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921272 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Something Wycked Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 That character should clock in at over 400 points. +1 :mellow: That's kind of... overpowered, Leonidas. I might be able to swallow the Hood or the Blades or the special psychic power if you gave him just one of them, but all three? ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 You have to wonder if it's an exercise in satire. G Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921321 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 That character should clock in at over 400 points. I would name him Grampappy. No pybolt ammo ?? That is an oversight for sure . G +! haha yeah. That Character would actually make draigowing retartedly overpower. Can you imagine beast movement Paladins that now come with stubborn so no need for an inquisitor. The guy has 4 psychic powers a turn and an insane psychic hood. He'd be more auto include than coteaz. In saying that I do agree they should have had a special character Librarian in there. If I was to make a GK lib character I would make him something like this. Random Name - Lahariel Sarimath WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv 5 5 4 4 3 5 3 10 2+/5++ Has all psychic powers (as all good special Librarians should) Mastery Level 3 and can cast the same psychic power twice. Note can still only make 1 shooting attack as per normal. Master Crafted Nemesis Warding Stalve, stormbolter, Imperium Brain Mines Special Rules/wargear Hood of the Covenant - Psychic hood that allows Lahariel to not have to reroll his invuln when taking a wound from perils of the warp. Lahariel can also use the hood to stretch his control of the warp to greater effect. Lahariel may try to challenge any psychic power cast on the board however for each 6 inch bracket he goes above the initial 24" he loose 1 point of leadership when trying to challenge the test. For instance when trying to null a power 29 inches away he would do so at Ld 9, when trying to null a power 40 inches away he would do this at Ld7. Psychic Beacon - Essentially a psychic prodegy (deamons love him in the way that he has a massive warp presence and hence he needs the hood to help avoid getting eaten by demons). Laharied counts as a locator beacon and any GK unit within 6" of him (not henchmen psychers) may use his leadership when casting psychic powers however if they suffer a perils of the warp the wound is allocated to Lahariel even if he's in a different unit as the demons are really after him! Pts = 255. What do you guys think? Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 OK, OK, point taken, maybe he is a bit OPed -_- Let me try again: Master Librarian Veritas (285 points) WS BS S T W I A Ld Sv 6 5 4 4 3 5 2 10 2+/5++ Wargear: -Terminator Armor -Hood of Purity - Psychic Hood that allows any GK unit within LOS of Veritas to re-roll Psychic Tests that result in Perils of the Warp (i.e. double 1s or double 6s) -Blades of Vengeance - Two Nemesis Force Swords that give Veritas either +2 Invul in CC, +2 attacks, or +1 attack and +1 Invul in CC; decide which one each assault phase -Stormbolter Special Rules -The Aegis -ATSKNF -Independent Character -Preferred Enemy (Daemons) -Psyker (Master Level 3) Psychic Powers -Hammerhand -Dark Excommunication -Quicksilver -Might of Titan -Sanctuary -Smite -The Shrouding -The Summoning -Vortex of Doom -Warp Rift -Truesight - Gives unit within 6" (can be his own unit) the ability to extend the range of any non-Template shooting attacks by 12" for one Shooting phase. --------------- As you can see, I increased his points, toned down the Hood of Purity, took away Psychic Communion, and replaced "Titan's Fury" with "Truesight," as well as making him PML 3 vice PML 4... Oh, and I dropped Stubborn and took him down to 2 wounds. Thoughts? BTW, I like your idea Crynn... looks pretty reasonable and a character that would actually be used, without being auto-include. I especially like the Psychic Beacon bit.. fluffy and useful, but not overpowered. Anyone else have an idea for GK Librarian character? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drachnon Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I don't really see a need to make a special character for the master librarian. The codex is made so that each GK army can for +50 points upgrade to a level 3 psyker making him effectively chief librarian for that chapter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 He is still way over the top and broken - especially the hood. G :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921657 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 Hmmm... I heartily disagree with you Black Orange... all the hood does is allow units to re-roll Perils of the Warp...other than that, it is a normal PH now. -As for over the top and broken, well I disagree with that too... PML 3 is over the top? Almost every Librarian Special Character has that. All the GK Powers? Again, that is the trademark of almost every Librarian Special Character. -TDA with a storm bolter and the ability to get a 3++ in CC or 2 extra attacks or +1A and a 4++ in CC (must choose one)? Compare that with, say, Njal, whose Terminator armor gives him +1A in close combat (he still has his Bolt Pistol) and a permanent 4++ against ALL attacks (not just CC) -2 wounds is over the top? I hope not. -"Truesight" power.... hmmm, adding 12" to a unit range does not seem game-breaking to me... helps out one unit with Psycannons or SBs per turn -More points than Kaldor Draigo.... broken/over the top? If anything, at the points cost, I am not sure many people would use him, since he hurts the points bank so much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 His swords are a headache, liable to confuse people. Do they give them a 2++ outside of the Assault phase? Is the additional attack for having two swords included in the different modes to start with? Etc, etc. Also, is this even the right subforum for this discussion? We do have a homegrown rules subforum, (ya know people) or are you just trying to gauge a wider range of players first L30n1d4s? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921752 Share on other sites More sharing options...
L30n1d4s Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 Yeah, maybe it should be in the other forum :) As for the swords, they give him a 3++ (not 2++) in CC, since he has a "base" 5++ from his TDA... if he chooses to gain the +2 A, then he only has his base 5++, with no bonus to his Invul in CC... if he takes the "middle of the road" option, then he gets +1A and a 4++ in CC... think of it like Falchions and Sword combined, with the ability to choose which way it works each assault phase (kind of like how the Incubi Klaivex can either get +2 S or +2 attacks from hius Demiklaives) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921807 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitefireinferno Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Re rolling Perils IS HUGE and I mean XBOX HEUG in a GK army. Also have to agree the Swords thing is clunky. Oh and the Give a unit of Palidins or Puris 4 36 inch range Psycannons. These are reasonably big boosts Esp the Pant crapping terror class of GKs never needing to worry about Perils. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921828 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 So GKs aren't taking enough heat for being OP already, they also need a superduper librarian of awesomesauce :P Personally, I've never understood the fascination with SCs and the need for them to have their super powers, sure its cool to have some stories of named characters who've won battles and hearts of ladies and whatnot, but come on.. They don't need speshul rulz, we've already got rules for generic captains, grandmasters, boogiemen and what else the universe holds of beyond average and leaders of men, lets use those and bugger the rest. (and I'm ashamed to say that I'm forced to use an SC under the current rules just to field my ISTs of yore) :cuss Beyond that, I liked the first draft the best, he really embodies everything I loathe about SCs; the ability to do anything better than an 'ordinairy' choice, superior stats and equipment and of course being horribly undercosted, in short the perfect SC B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Re rolling Perils IS HUGE and I mean XBOX HEUG in a GK army. Also have to agree the Swords thing is clunky. Oh and the Give a unit of Palidins or Puris 4 36 inch range Psycannons. These are reasonably big boosts Esp the Pant crapping terror class of GKs never needing to worry about Perils. QFT. The range should be reduced to say 3 - 6". G ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2921995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Mama Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Question, why does anyone make up there own character, besides as a thought exercise I mean? I understand making up fluff, but just making up your own rules, seems pointless, who is going to play with you, and if someone does, you're just unbalancing the game. I guess if everyone realizes that it would be ok. Either way my answer to the question is that EVERY Grey Knight is Special. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2922003 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 That pretty much sums it up in a tidy nutshell. Sure we don't want to throw cold water on suggestions but then again we need to be realistic as well. Grey Knights are pretty darn awesome as is and I don't think that is gonna change anytime soon. G :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2922073 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oiad Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Question, why does anyone make up there own character, besides as a thought exercise I mean? I understand making up fluff, but just making up your own rules, seems pointless, who is going to play with you, and if someone does, you're just unbalancing the game. Quite a few people like creating their own rules. There's nothing wrong with it, though it's understandable in this age where competitive gaming is king that many will think otherwise. Those who like creating their own rules are just sticking to one of GW's more central ethos - that at the end of the day gaming is for your own entertainment and it's ultimately up to you and your opponent to agree what is fair and fun. Still, perhaps posting this in a subforum where members are more often used to following the rules and scrutinising official content isn't the most appropriate place for discussion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2922265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Then again, just go nuts. The game is what you make of it, and if playing with 28mm supermen is your thing, just go for it. Surely this librarian is OTT, and noone who approach the game in competitive and 'to the letter' manner, will ever take this dude seriously. On the other hand, he might be appropriate in a story driven scenario/campaign, facing his archnemesis of Doom, where the point isn't just to create a BA superman, but more story driven. 40K afterall is a poorly constructed game for the competitive (at least those who can't afford to buy the latest superarmy), but has great potential for hilarious mayhem and heroics. What is important to remember is that a characters cool comes from his story and not just his stats - where would Ghazgul and Yarrick be without their endless wars for Armageddon for instance? - which is another reason why this character stinks, as he has no soul or background, he is just a collection of awesomesauce without soul (and it doesn't take much, just take a look at Draigo) :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2922481 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'm just gonna say it. He's broken. Also, this is more for the Homebrew rules form than OI. <3 Special Characters are silly anyway. Be happy that we have some viable characters in our codex that we can completely customize and build ourselves...the day we don't, we become Warmachine. :) Besides, the Librarian in the GK codex is already a beast. You want him to be special? Name him. He need not be broken to be fun or fluffy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2923891 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 I'm just gonna say it. He's broken. Also, this is more for the Homebrew rules form than OI. <3 Special Characters are silly anyway. Be happy that we have some viable characters in our codex that we can completely customize and build ourselves...the day we don't, we become Warmachine. ;) Besides, the Librarian in the GK codex is already a beast. You want him to be special? Name him. He need not be broken to be fun or fluffy. I really think some of you guys are missing the point. Granted the librarian character the OP wrote was broken but that doesn't mean all special characters are broken. Also, just because a gk librarian is a fantastic and customizable choice doesn't mean that a special character version of him will be broken. I personally love special characters and while I don't think the gk's need a special character librarian, would I be cool to have one? He'll yeah. He wouldn't have to be broken, just interesting, heck the guy wrote up took me 5 mins and he wasn't too bad just rules that make them different and fun. Now I play my own chapter and therefore write all my own fluff but you know what, most people couldn't give a crap what my commanders name is where he's been and what he's done so my games generally aren't filled with heroic stories and blah blah blah. When I take a special character whether I rename him for chapter or not, when he's put on the table people instantly know the fluff behind him and his great deeds. Much of the time they also get a good idea of the theme of your army. So in these ways I think the more special characters the better, they are fun and fluffy, if we all were spacewolves with saga and thunderwolf mounts maybe they would be less necesary but we aren't. Let mephiston and Dante join forces to spearhaed a pivot turning point in a battle, let all these new crazy necron lords take the to the table to furthertherw diorama collections (as in one of the lords fluff for those who don't know) it all just makes the game more interesting for me. Regards Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2924035 Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 too many rules on a single model . what GK need is for example a libby dude that when he is not fighting works as a quasi diplomat for the GK [psykers can "talk" to anyone] . give him maybe a single rule and a single pice of special gear . like for example he knows so many races and how they work/wage war that he puts a random non troops unit/model from the army in to reservers and/or addes a -1 to the reserv entry roll. the trinket/weapon/pice of gear could be something random a table roll d6 get something from a random race . something eldar something hrud something necron something tau etc . A dude doesnt have to cost 400pts and have 24 special rules to be an interesting option . OR it could be the librarian masters that rarly go to battle lower A lower WS/BS but superior hood [bigger range] and/or maybe an effect like the venerable libby , but his real buff comes from allowing all GK within 12" of him to roll 3d6 on their psychic tests and pick the rolls they want . all powers 250 pts. OR a GK libby that can cast empowered versions of normal spells . knows all , but can only use 1-2 per battle [ so lets say pre battle you pick empowered might of titan and empowered sanctuary and he can only cast those] or if not empowered version of spells then a dude with his own spell or the abilty to spell steal stuff[if he hoods a power he auto casts it on +4] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2924150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Holy Heretic Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 .., so my games generally aren't filled with heroic stories and blah blah blah. When I take a special character whether I rename him for chapter or not, when he's put on the table people instantly know the fluff behind him and his great deeds. Much of the time they also get a good idea of the theme of your army. So in these ways I think the more special characters the better, they are fun and fluffy, if we all were spacewolves with saga and thunderwolf mounts maybe they would be less necesary but we aren't. Let mephiston and Dante join forces to spearhaed a pivot turning point in a battle, let all these new crazy necron lords take the to the table to furthertherw diorama collections (as in one of the lords fluff for those who don't know) it all just makes the game more interesting for me. Regards Crynn I heartily disagree. Most SCs have been written as a juvenile fan fic, basically for 12 year olds to be able to play "mine is bigger than yours" (and reading their codex in the bathroom). Supercharged rules combined with 1dimensional fluff - our own Draigo is a great example of this, and for some reason also the most popular SC :P Now then, most people at first couldn't care less about your army or character fluff - ever met an rpgamer, who wanted to tell you of their 20th level fighter? Its the same thing, most people aren't great writers and poor fiction just isn't interesting. However after a game, having tried your list firsthand and discussing what went wrong, most people would forgive you to share short anecdotal rants on previous battles, and these are usually so much better, when they're related to something of your own creation defying the odds, instead of a fanwank with awesomesauce. - As an anecdote, I used to play against a guy in Rogue Trader, who'd named each and every one of his marines and kept a kill/dead score for them. This created some truly epic heroes, born from proper war stories, and funnily enough none of those guys needed special rules to be truly bad ass B) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2924303 Share on other sites More sharing options...
thade Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 From my perspective, this thread had two points: the OP values special characters for their story value (i.e. they give background and rough templates for other characters of their "class"); the OP proposed stats for an example special character Librarian that would fit his desires. My usage of the word "broken" is overloaded there. I'll be more clear here. :teehee: Special Characters are often described as 'broken' in my neighborhood, as they bend their rules in ways befitting named special characters. 'Broken' does not mean "over-tuned" or literally "game-breaking" in all cases. I did indeed mean to say that his example special character is game-breaking, but it's a small thing as he even admitted it was just an off-the-cuff example; again, that kind of stuff is really better suited for Homebrew Rules. The topic as I see it is really why there is no Libby special character and why we might (or might not) like one. So, no, I don't believe I missed the point. And I still don't think there's anything lacking with the absence of a libby special character. Room for us to do our own thing, is the way I see it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2924609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crynn Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I couldn disagree more about characters all just beig child fiction. There are a few marine characters, draigo and mephiston are a couple who just have rediculous over the top fluff however most characters have very good fluff that can give an or even a codex a lot of depth, some even in some small ways advance the 40k story as well. I think viewin characters as all cheesy over powered child fiction units shows a lack of understanding of just how powerful or generally underpowered most special characters are as well as a disregard for heroic individuals an how they can add depth to the 40k world. I'm sure if you did a pole you would be far in the minority. Look at warhammer who's game exclusively works with only special charactors. Regards, Crynn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241771-where-is-the-gk-librarian-special-character/#findComment-2924745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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