Antioch Bethel Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Okay, so something has been bugging me recently. We are learning about what's been going on with the Primarchs during this time of great upheaval. Some are rebelling, others are countering that rebellion, and one in particular is overseeing the defense of Terra itself while coordinating the counterattack against the rebels. Of course I am talking about the one and only Rogal Dorn, favored (or favoured) son of the Emperor now that Horus went off the deep end. (I am a little biased, but hear me out.) My question then becomes this: where is the Emperor? We know a few things. The Emperor left the theater of war at Ullanor to return to Terra to work on other things. We assume that this is the Golden Throne which we know he was working on at the end of the Great Crusade. But the Throne was broken thanks to the clumsy foolishness of the red-headed stepchild, Magnus. Thanks to the problem Magnus created in the throne room of the Imperial Palace, I always assumed that The Emperor then had to sit his God-like rump on the Golden Throne to prevent the rift into the warp from spewing forth countless denizens of the Immaterium. He then sat there throughout the entirety of Horus's Rebellion which lasted years and years, until Horus's forces were at the very doorstep of the Imperial Palace itself. Then he (according to what I have read in other places on the B&C) had Malcador the Sigilite (a potent psyker in his own right) sit on the chair of doom while he deals with his wayward child. We know how that ends and then The Emperor ends up reclining in his Lazy-boy for the next 10,000 years. But there is older fluff stating that it is after the battle with Horus when Rogal Dorn finds the plans for the Golden Throne (or is told them by the Emperor). So my real question is, with all of the changes to the older fluff and mystery surrounding the Emperor in general, what was he really doing during the Horus Heresy? He has been noticeably absent during this time of trial, leaving his sons to clean up the mess. What could the Emperor have been working on or doing that was more important? Unless of course he really was just fighting off the daemons in the Throne Room during the entirety of the Heresy. Any ideas? I want to believe that the Emperor was doing something grand or that he had an ultimate plan he was working on. Sorry for the long post and I apologize if this has been answered elsewhere. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billuriye Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 As you said after Magnus screwed his project he was trying to hold the daemons at bay. Before that he was trying to finish the webway project. With that he hoped to eliminate warp travel for FTL. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2921895 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 No, he was doing something else before Magnus ruined things further, hence his disappearance before the Heresy. The Outcast Dead was an eye opener to the nature of the Emperor and true re-unification. He also clarified his view on saving Humanity a little, and his dedication. And he was fairly compassionate too, mixed with pragmatism. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2921904 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antioch Bethel Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 So was he just keeping the daemons at bay during the heresy? What else was he doing? Or did this take his full attention, like it does now? If he was already completely preoccupied even with his intact, healthy body, then that is kind of a bleak picture for humanity even without the Horus Heresy going full steam. If he was completely involved in combating the daemons then he wouldn't even have time to think up a solution to close the portal, and he would be stuck in the throne room for eternity anyway. So I guess my question now becomes "Why does it even matter that his body is broken and he's interred on the Golden Throne for eternity? Who cares about the Heresy, mankind was screwed the moment Magnus broke the Emperors favorite chair and confined him to an existence of psychic battle for the survival of the human race, right? Wouldn't that make Magnus's big woopsie more important in the long run than Horus's betrayal?" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 He was holding a strand of the Webway under Deamonic attack together through his power alone, I imagine that took a lot of concentration... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claws of Corax Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Link There is a paragraph about the consequencies of the Heresy that you'll be interested to read. Claws Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antioch Bethel Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Then I guess it IS true; Magnus's blunder led to the Emperor's entire focus being spent on the daemon incursion, and Horus basically just showed up to cripple the Emperor. Had The Emperor just throttled Horus with his awesomeness and returned to the palace unscathed he would still be "chained" (figuratively speaking) to the Golden Throne... Thanks a lot, Magnus, you Turd Sandwich! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dswanick Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Don't be too hard on poor Magnus - he played his part in the Heresy which was a necessary step for humanity down The Long Road. Eventually everything works out as it should. Such is the prescient vision of The Emperor. Trust in The Emperor and The Great Path... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I think the fluff about the Emp giving Dorn instructions about the golden throne after being crippled by horus was to convert it into a life-support machine, which might not really fit with things in recent HH novels :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antioch Bethel Posted November 12, 2011 Author Share Posted November 12, 2011 Ok, so new question. How different would the Horus Heresy have been had The Big E been free to act and not stuck in the Imperial Palace? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Well, if he could just hand the webway project off to someone like Malcador, if that old chump was powerful and wise enough, he'd still be campaigning and the HH wouldn't have happened. In other words, there would've been no Warhammer 40,000; just a universe of 'uber lone wolf best CoD player in the history of mankind who once killed all thirty one players other than himself simultaneously with a combat knife' pwnage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922127 Share on other sites More sharing options...
G3rman Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 He was using his psychic powers to keep daemons away from the Palace as well as keeping the gate to the webway in the palace stable so the Custodes and Sisters of Silence could continue their invasion. After Magnus screwed it up, they were forced to abandon the project. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922145 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hephaesteus Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 I would agree with Captain Idaho, the outcast dead is a really good insight into what the Emp was doing. I finished it yesterday and it has taken a day for me to assimilate it! I am in the pro Emp camp however, so that probably colours my interpretation of it. It was great to see his point of view (the Emp, not captain idaho. Though his insights are also always worth reading ;) ). Most of the Big E info so far in the series has not been too complimentary. As we start to approach the endgame (or at least the middle) of the series we need to start to move away from understanding what drove Horus and the 'baddies' to do what they did and why; and move to not just understanding the Emp but starting to root for him. Otherwise the final battle and interment on the throne lack any emotional weight, and seriously; the guy is mortally wounded and commits himself to eternal torment to keep the human race ticking over. He saw what would happen to him if he went up against Horus, and still had the balls to go through with it It also makes a series of great points (through the games of regicide) about how the the Emperor has to be protected at all costs at the beginning, and then comes into his own at the endgame. In my view that actually works in several ways; 1) it addresses the online chatter which often runs to the tune of 'the Emp is a knob because he did nothing' (he had to be occupied, otherwise the whole 40k doesn't exist). 2) it shows that he can't know or do everything at once (he saw up to 30k but then has just had to make the best decisions he can). 3) he didn't know what would happen and was obscured from seeing the heresy happening (the whole of pantheon of caries gods are united in trying to bring him down) 4) he really does have the human race at the heart of everything he does. all of the warriors he creates are only to promote the 'normal' humans. As someone else said, he is pragmatic but compassionate Did he make mistakes? sure, but he has been trying to guide humanity for 30k years. There has to be a few mis-steps along the way. My own theory (which you can feel free to shoot down) is that Horus saved the big E from the ork warlord on ullanor, where he realised that if he was taken out over just one world, then the whole of his grand plan would be for nothing. There was too much at stake for it to be all about him leading from the front. He moved into the background to get the terran warp gate working and remove humanity's need of warp travel. He knew that his vision was obscurred by the chaos gods so made the decision to finish the gate in secret, knowing that they would be trying to stop him at all costs. The orders were again for Magnus to be brought in, I would imagine that if he had been brought to Terra then he could have been on the throne holding back the tide at least a bit so the Emp could lay some smack down on the traitors. ok, that got a little rambling. hope it makes some sense! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922549 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hephaesteus Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Actually, I have just read the thread on 'the outcast dead' and everyone on that says what I wanted to say, but better. So read that instead! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 My own theory (which you can feel free to shoot down) is that Horus saved the big E from the ork warlord on ullanor, where he realised that if he was taken out over just one world, then the whole of his grand plan would be for nothing. There was too much at stake for it to be all about him leading from the front. He moved into the background to get the terran warp gate working and remove humanity's need of warp travel. He knew that his vision was obscurred by the chaos gods so made the decision to finish the gate in secret, knowing that they would be trying to stop him at all costs. The orders were again for Magnus to be brought in, I would imagine that if he had been brought to Terra then he could have been on the throne holding back the tide at least a bit so the Emp could lay some smack down on the traitors. ok, that got a little rambling. hope it makes some sense! This actually makes sense. The Emperor could have wanted to bring Magnus back and show him what he destroyed and sentenced him to keeping the daemons at bay while the Emperor tried to keep order or control. But I guess we will only have to wait until we find out. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2922580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Ok, so new question. How different would the Horus Heresy have been had The Big E been free to act and not stuck in the Imperial Palace? That depends. He admitted that he was not all seeing and powerful in TOD and that was the price. It could be that the Chaos Gods took another tact to swerve the HH in there favour if the Big E played it a different way. In my mind I can see him rallying the Primarchs and loyal legions to his cause if his time wasn't taken up by the GT and taking it too Horus but he could have been swayed into a different action by the Primarchs. There is too many variables to go down but the ending is the same, He's in the GT and he isn't going anywhere fast. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2924269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Shady Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 This actually makes sense. The Emperor could have wanted to bring Magnus back and show him what he destroyed and sentenced him to keeping the daemons at bay while the Emperor tried to keep order or control. That does make sense specially when a deamon, (I forgot it's name), tells Magnus that he will die if he sides with the Big E and is shown a vision of him wasting away on the GT. That could have been a vision of him serving his punishment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2924271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Well, let me quote a paragraph from A Thousand Sons I just remembered: Unspoken understanding flowed between Magnus and the Emperor. Everything Magnus had done was laid bare, and everything the Emperor planned flowed into him. He saw himself atop the Golden Throne, using his fearsome powers to guide humanity to its destiny as rulers of the galaxy. He was to be his father’s chosen instrument of ultimate victory. It broke him to know that his unthinking hubris had shattered that dream. So yes, it indeed makes sense that this was the very reason Russ was unleashed to bring Magnus back. If Magnus had arrived on Terra, even after the events on Prospero and the battle against the Wolves, who knows how things would have turned out. Magnus could have helped his father fix his mistake, atone for his sin, and maybe he'd have found a way to "heal" the Emperor in due time. For all we know, we can be sure that Tzeentch did not want Magnus to return to his father's side. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2928865 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epistolary Exander Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Actually the Emperor is known to have briefly left the golden throne 2 years after the outset of the heresy in Nemesis, its that or a he created very good psychic contstruct of himself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2932469 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 Well, if he could just hand the webway project off to someone like Malcador, if that old chump was powerful and wise enough, I think it's fair to assume he was a safe pair of hands, brother. He was the Big E's number two for quite a while... ^_^ Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2932488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMan Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 He's taking a break from the kids. The guy is a single father with 20 children, he needed a holiday. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2932495 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Well, if he could just hand the webway project off to someone like Malcador, if that old chump was powerful and wise enough, I think it's fair to assume he was a safe pair of hands, brother. He was the Big E's number two for quite a while... :huh: Yeah, but he still got fried when he sat on the Throne for less than a day. I think he was #2 only because Magnus had a Legion to mess with. If Magnus hadn't been scattered by the Chaos Gods (or whatever your interpretation of those events may be), he'd have taken Malcador's place. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2932740 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 True, he did fry - but I think that was down to staving off daemonic assault rather than overseeing a webway portal. And yes, Magnus was destined for the Big Seat. That plan was scuppered by (surprise surprise) Magnus himself. Oopsie. :huh: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2932747 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryphaus 101 Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Even if Magnus was in charge of a Legion he wouldn't of taken Malcador's place as the Emperor's advisor. He was too arrogant, to sure what he thought was right was right. Malcador was human and knew he has limitations. He was also probably wiser than Magnus. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241823-what-was-the-emperor-doing/#findComment-2932821 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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