2000AD Posted November 12, 2011 Share Posted November 12, 2011 Ive been thinking about the Big E...... he looks into the warp and sees what might come to be, causing him to quit the crusade, retire and study the warp further, but by doing this he creates the doubt and feeling of abandonment that causes Horus to turn against him..... thus causing the heresy. Or am I thinking too much? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Foes Remain Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 In the latest books it is hinted at the Emperor knowing what was going to happen, but refused to believe it or something like that. Then with the Siege of Terra comming closer he saw what was going to happen and realised that he must sacrafice himself for humanity's survival. Well, something along those lines. That might just be my interpretation. /Ventris. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2922910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rik Lightstar Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 I was thinking about this while reading Outcast Dead, I think the Heresy was intentional, The Emperor knew it would happen and intentionally created the conditions for certain Primarchs to turn, it just happened sooner than intended. His concern I think was that once the galaxy was under his control, he would have an enormous army that would need to be kept busy OR hundreds of thousands of Astartes kicking around bored and frustrated. He needed a way to thin the ranks of the Astartes, he'd only need enough left to handle rebellions and put down any upstart Xenos, the Heresy is the perfect vehicle for bringing Astartes numbers to managable levels. Outcast Dead Spoiler He shows that he is capable of treating his troops like this with his Thunder Warriors The only thing that caught him out was how soon it started, but it wasn't that early, he'd already recalled Dorn. Rikk Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2923024 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000AD Posted November 25, 2011 Author Share Posted November 25, 2011 I was thinking about this while reading Outcast Dead, I think the Heresy was intentional, The Emperor knew it would happen and intentionally created the conditions for certain Primarchs to turn, it just happened sooner than intended. His concern I think was that once the galaxy was under his control, he would have an enormous army that would need to be kept busy OR hundreds of thousands of Astartes kicking around bored and frustrated. He needed a way to thin the ranks of the Astartes, he'd only need enough left to handle rebellions and put down any upstart Xenos, the Heresy is the perfect vehicle for bringing Astartes numbers to managable levels. Outcast Dead Spoiler He shows that he is capable of treating his troops like this with his Thunder Warriors The only thing that caught him out was how soon it started, but it wasn't that early, he'd already recalled Dorn. Rikk You could be right..... the more I think about it, the more I find it difficult to believe that the Big E could be soooooooo naive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2931592 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beef Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Anything is possible when it comes to the big E. The Primarchs were tools just like the SM and the TW he created before them, a meens to an end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2931609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 I still feel like the old fluff hasn't totally been retconned by sources like TOD, and I think that the Emperor couldn't see what was going to happen. Of course, until we get a book or a part of a book detailing his perspective (which I doubt we will get, conventionally at least), we can't really know. Like I said, I prefer to think that the Emperor probably had an idea about what was going to happen (the Heresy) but continued to play the proverbial game in the off-chance that he'd come out as the victor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2931614 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 The Emperor makes a bargain with the Ruinous Powers, then tries to double cross them with the Primarch Project. The Ruinous Powers send the Primarchs out into the Galaxy. The Emperor salvages what he can and goes out on the Great Crusade, doing his best to cut off the Ruinous Powers support by enforcing the Imperial Truth. But he's playing in Tzeentch's yard here, despite being the Ultimate Human. Something happens with two of the Legions that lets old Emps know his Primarchs are fallible, so he begins working on cutting humans off form the Warp even harder. He's going to invade the Webway so that humanity doesn't need to go tripping through the Ruinous Powers home any more than they have to. He knows by now that he's made a Faustian Bargain, but he's racing against time anyway. Magnus the Red is tricked by Tzeentch into scuttling the Emperor's plans to invade the Webway by accidentally filling it with daemons, and of course by now Horus has fallen. The Emperor is feeling a little out of his depth now. All his meticulous planning is falling apart and he's not sure he can pull it off anymore. The events of the Outcast Dead happen, and the Emperor now knows he can't win. So he does what any 4th edition Chaos Marine player does once he's missed his one opportunity to break the enemy, he scrambles to tie the game, hoping against hope that the enemy will make a critical fumble. The Emperor's dice betray him a little harder than even he predicted, and he ends up stuck on the Golden Throne in an eternal self created hell while humanity descends into madness for 10,000 years. Then the Tyranids eat everything and nobody wins. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2931764 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snickers Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 So he does what any 4th edition Chaos Marine player does once he's missed his one opportunity to break the enemy, he scrambles to tie the game That has happened to me sooooooooo many times. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2933536 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snejk Posted December 11, 2011 Share Posted December 11, 2011 I've also been thinking about if the Emperor knew about Hourus treachery beforehand. Perhaps by some sort of vision not unlike the Night Haunters vision of his own death? And knowing he couldn't treason or when it would come he went back to Terra in order to bolster its defences. Perhaps he didn't knew it would be Hourus that would betray him, just that it would be one of his sons. I dunno, it just seems too coincidential that the Emperor would head back to Terra just as the Heresy is being set in motion. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2941986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakiq Posted December 12, 2011 Share Posted December 12, 2011 The Emperor makes a bargain with the Ruinous Powers, then tries to double cross them with the Primarch Project. The Ruinous Powers send the Primarchs out into the Galaxy. The Emperor salvages what he can and goes out on the Great Crusade, doing his best to cut off the Ruinous Powers support by enforcing the Imperial Truth. But he's playing in Tzeentch's yard here, despite being the Ultimate Human. Something happens with two of the Legions that lets old Emps know his Primarchs are fallible, so he begins working on cutting humans off form the Warp even harder. He's going to invade the Webway so that humanity doesn't need to go tripping through the Ruinous Powers home any more than they have to. He knows by now that he's made a Faustian Bargain, but he's racing against time anyway. Magnus the Red is tricked by Tzeentch into scuttling the Emperor's plans to invade the Webway by accidentally filling it with daemons, and of course by now Horus has fallen. The Emperor is feeling a little out of his depth now. All his meticulous planning is falling apart and he's not sure he can pull it off anymore. The events of the Outcast Dead happen, and the Emperor now knows he can't win. So he does what any 4th edition Chaos Marine player does once he's missed his one opportunity to break the enemy, he scrambles to tie the game, hoping against hope that the enemy will make a critical fumble. The Emperor's dice betray him a little harder than even he predicted, and he ends up stuck on the Golden Throne in an eternal self created hell while humanity descends into madness for 10,000 years. Then the Tyranids eat everything and nobody wins. The Outcast Dead suggests the Emperor knows of his fate on the golden throne though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2942540 Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJB Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 I think he knew what was to happen and knew the hard choices he'd have take Anyone else pick up on the Istvaan references in his regicide game? About sacrificing your own pieces to reveal the hidden pieces of the enemy? Made me feel sorry for Ferrus, Vulkan and Corax Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2944958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000AD Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I think he knew what was to happen and knew the hard choices he'd have take Anyone else pick up on the Istvaan references in his regicide game? About sacrificing your own pieces to reveal the hidden pieces of the enemy? Made me feel sorry for Ferrus, Vulkan and Corax Makes sense ..... especially since these three would be seen as his weakest pieces..... his "pawns" in a game of regicide Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2945201 Share on other sites More sharing options...
2000AD Posted December 15, 2011 Author Share Posted December 15, 2011 I've also been thinking about if the Emperor knew about Hourus treachery beforehand. Perhaps by some sort of vision not unlike the Night Haunters vision of his own death? And knowing he couldn't treason or when it would come he went back to Terra in order to bolster its defences. Perhaps he didn't knew it would be Hourus that would betray him, just that it would be one of his sons. I dunno, it just seems too coincidential that the Emperor would head back to Terra just as the Heresy is being set in motion. But that is the ultimate irony..... it is his perception of a possible future, that returns him to Terra which thus causes suspicions and doubts to enter the minds of his sons..... especially Horus...... AND thus causes the heresy. Good ol Tzeentch... :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2945203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodanshi Posted December 15, 2011 Share Posted December 15, 2011 The Emperor makes a bargain with the Ruinous Powers, then tries to double cross them with the Primarch Project. The Ruinous Powers send the Primarchs out into the Galaxy. The Emperor salvages what he can and goes out on the Great Crusade, doing his best to cut off the Ruinous Powers support by enforcing the Imperial Truth. But he's playing in Tzeentch's yard here, despite being the Ultimate Human. Something happens with two of the Legions that lets old Emps know his Primarchs are fallible, so he begins working on cutting humans off form the Warp even harder. He's going to invade the Webway so that humanity doesn't need to go tripping through the Ruinous Powers home any more than they have to. He knows by now that he's made a Faustian Bargain, but he's racing against time anyway. Magnus the Red is tricked by Tzeentch into scuttling the Emperor's plans to invade the Webway by accidentally filling it with daemons, and of course by now Horus has fallen. The Emperor is feeling a little out of his depth now. All his meticulous planning is falling apart and he's not sure he can pull it off anymore. The events of the Outcast Dead happen, and the Emperor now knows he can't win. So he does what any 4th edition Chaos Marine player does once he's missed his one opportunity to break the enemy, he scrambles to tie the game, hoping against hope that the enemy will make a critical fumble. The Emperor's dice betray him a little harder than even he predicted, and he ends up stuck on the Golden Throne in an eternal self created hell while humanity descends into madness for 10,000 years. Then the Tyranids eat everything and nobody wins. This is now my official angle on the Horus Heresy and the future of 40K Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/241876-self-fulfilling-prophecy/#findComment-2945219 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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