Non-Ravenwing Bikers?

[Unforgiven2544]

Good Afternoon Fellow gamers,

 

I have a question for you regarding the way ahead for my Dark Angels force. I already have a full company (3rd Company) a considerably sized Deathwing force (63 Terminators) and a growing Ravenwing force (4 Ravenwing Attack squadrons and 2 land speeder support squadrons)

 

I am contemplating these following ideas as far as expansions to my Unforgiven Roster:

 

6th & 7th Companies: The 6th & 7th Companies are typically tactical marines. But in other chapters the reserve company is also where they are trained in the use of bikes and land speeders. So I was thinking of making an army out of the 6th company of bikers using Kor'Sarro Khan as the captain and 6th company bikers, assault marines, and tactical squads in transports. Would you rage at the sight of a Dark Angel bike army that wasn't painted in Ravenwing colors (they haven't been seconded into the 2nd company yet, and are not privvy to teh secrets of the unforgiven yet) Or should I just paint the bikers in Ravenwing colors anyway?

Does the idea of using a "Counts As" Khan raise your hackles? In case there is doubt, I would build my 8th Company totally within the confines of Codex: Space Marines. (I am not suggesting I cherry pick multiple codex books)

5th Company The 5th Company is a "Battle Company" and I was considering using Pedro Kantor (Or, a model I have converted with powerfist and storm bolter) as the basis for the Master of the Company. I would be using the Space Marine codex in the building of this army as well (Fleet Based & Drop Pod heavy). Still using Dark Angel icons, company markings, and color schemes, but expanding beyond the codex. [i can still use Sternguard as Company Veterans, Tactical Marines are Tactical Marines, and even the converted Kantor is still viable as a DA Captain]

 

 

Which of these strikes you as more fitting with the Unforgiven mythos? Which would be mroe fun to play against? which one would be less likely to generate a frothing neckbeard rant from my opponent at a local game store pick up game?

 

I look forward to your inputs.

 

Very Respectfully,

--Unforgiven

[Captain Semper]

Welcome to the Rock!

 

You have some interesting ideas going but I have a few questions:

 

1) do you plan to use the SM Codex? Then I guess there is no problem. You effectively have a "legal" army and you can paint it anyway it suits you - even in DA colors. That covers the playability of the army. The trick here is to stick to one codex. Although a few people might be annoyed by you using DA iconography on what appears to be a Codex SM force (codex hopping) I think you'll find many more being intolerant towards you using mixed codices...

 

2) Do you want to be in-line with the background? This is a tad more complicated... You see RW has had some make-overs over the various editions. Currently the only bikes out there belong to the RW. No other company has them. However that was not the case in the Codex: Angels of Death where it clearly said in the DA Chpater Organization section (p.36) that the 8th company (Assault Reserve) is "often equipped with jump packs, bikes and land speeders". They were not trainees, it was just mentioned as an alternative loadout for said company. At the time (if I recall correctly) the bike was an alternative for assault squads in the Codex Chapters. So in this respect the C:AoD was consistent. However in the army list there was no option for non-RW bikes. So possible background wise, not possible tabletop wise... And that is 2nd Ed. As I said in the current version, all bikes are in the 2nd company.

[Unforgiven2544]

Thanks for your input. I remember the last codex where it had the 'regular' bikes. Which were simply those without the 'jink' special rule.

 

All Ravenwing are bikers, but not all bikers are Ravenwing

 

I know better than to mix codex books (unless playing apocalypse) so I would never try to cherry pick from multiple codex books. My plan for 6th Company was to use Codex: Space Marines. I built My Angels of Absolution with the 3rd ed DA codex, and my Dark Angels with the 4th Ed DA codex. I want to expand my DA force, and still adhere to the fluff of the first legion..but have some options and varieties from Codex Space Marines. And hope that when the DA codex is (eventually) updated, I won't have all of my forces invalidated entirely. (I doubt Tac marines are going anywhere... :rolleyes: )

 

Respectfully,

--Unforgiven

[Captain Semper]

Yes I read your other post after I replied here so it is clear now...

 

The question boils down to whether C:SM can represent a DA force. I guess the answer is yes... Go Khan all the way :rolleyes: 8th FTW!!! This is actually completely in-line with my philosophy that rules are just an abstraction of how the models interact with each other - the story is yours to make. And let's face it, the only real difference between DAs and a Codex Chapter as far as companies organization goes is the RW. And the Khan takes care of that :( The rest of the differences, what makes DAs unique, does not necessarily translate in the tabletop and nor should it.

 

Truthfully I had completely forgotten what you mentioned about the 3rd edition. This is my bad. I think 3rd edition Codex did a lot to enhance the fluff through rules rather than through written text and the result was a generally unloved codex exactly because it attempted to translate too much fluff into rules. Good for the fluff - bad for the overall performance of the army on the table. As I'm generally into the hobby for the fluff and the modelling/painting and therfore I am thankful for the 3rd ed. Codex - even though most people dislike it...

 

Show us pictures!

 

EDIT: Oh, and I got the 5th for my Disciples!!! 5th FTW too!!!

[Unforgiven2544]

Well, here is the model I am planning on using for my "Counts As" Khan.

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/SolarinStudio/Warhammer%2040k/Space%20Marines/Dark%20Angels/IMG_6511.jpg

 

I want him to stand out, even if the rest of the bikes are in 'regular' company colors.

 

I'm whittling away at the force little by little.

[Brother Immolator]

And let's face it, the only real difference between DAs and a Codex Chapter as far as companies organization goes is the RW. And the Khan takes care of that :P The rest of the differences, what makes DAs unique, does not necessarily translate in the tabletop and nor should it.

 

Witchcraft,Heresy and Mutation!

 

Ok,now i am cool...The first company is also different,but semper has it right.

 

 

And while i like your painting very much(did you airbrushed the blade?),he looks like a regular ravenwing biker IMHO.

 

He needs moar bling!

[Master Avoghai]

And let's face it, the only real difference between DAs and a Codex Chapter as far as companies organization goes is the RW. And the Khan takes care of that ;) The rest of the differences, what makes DAs unique, does not necessarily translate in the tabletop and nor should it.

 

I disagree with that...

 

The real difference lies in the DW... The fact that you can take a character and make termi count as troops as well as you can mix assault/tactical termis.

 

For the RW, well you can have a master on bike and make the bikes count as troops... Of course you can't take a LS/AB in the same slot but that's a minor detail.

 

So yes you can go with the SM code easily...

 

No why would I go personnaly with codex DA anyway?

 

Fluffwise as I see the thing :The DA 6th company is the seed of RW : the bikers train in its ranks to get the honour of joining the 2nd company. Hence they train to fight as the RW does. => They should fight in squadron of 6 + AB.

 

Ruleswise : contrary to 3rd ed codex, this codex don't introduce special rules showing that RW bikers are veterans bikers with special skills : no more jink nor difficult terrain re-roll. The scout rule is just a special modus operandi. So you can easily use th DA codex rules to represent the 6th company squadrons.

 

Armywise : From what you say you want to use assault marines, AB and speeders in your army. Problem : you only have 3 FA slots. By using the DA rules you still can have AB and speeders as troops choice and use your FA slots for assault marines.

[Captain Semper]

And let's face it, the only real difference between DAs and a Codex Chapter as far as companies organization goes is the RW. And the Khan takes care of that :tu: The rest of the differences, what makes DAs unique, does not necessarily translate in the tabletop and nor should it.

 

I disagree with that...

 

Yes... I get this a lot as of late... :)

 

The real difference lies in the DW... The fact that you can take a character and make termi count as troops as well as you can mix assault/tactical termis.

 

I think there was a misunderstanding. Obviously the DA Codex allows you to make the Termie/Troop build which is unique. No argument there. My point was fluff driven. The point I was trying to make was that from a background perspective there is virtually nothing that will distinguish a Codex Terminator squad from a DW squad. The weapon loadout flexibility is just a rules driven difference that does not necessarily translate to the background. I mean in a in-Universe situation I doubt an Ultramarine squad would refrain from using whatever loadout was deemed the best to get the job done... Nor did the BA terminators in Space Hulk told the LC guy: "you can't fight with us - you have the wrong equipment". So to wrap it up, to me DW is Codex. They just choose certain loadouts and always wear TDA... Something that every other Chapter would probably do if they only had the suits of armor in adequate quantities.

 

 

Fluffwise as I see the thing :The DA 6th company is the seed of RW : the bikers train in its ranks to get the honour of joining the 2nd company. Hence they train to fight as the RW does. => They should fight in squadron of 6 + AB.

 

So the 6th, not the 8th? Is this to be in line with the current situation where Codex Chapters have bikers in the 6th as well? Because older fluff indicated the 8th... Not that it matters really. :lol:

[Master Avoghai]

Fluffwise as I see the thing :The DA 6th company is the seed of RW : the bikers train in its ranks to get the honour of joining the 2nd company. Hence they train to fight as the RW does. => They should fight in squadron of 6 + AB.

 

So the 6th, not the 8th? Is this to be in line with the current situation where Codex Chapters have bikers in the 6th as well? Because older fluff indicated the 8th... Not that it matters really. :lol:

Nop my bad I meant the 8th... :tu:

 

For the rest well this is OT after all :)