No wing DA

[Vanek]

Anyone have experience playing a "no wing" DA army composed like a normal SM army? Is it fun, or just frustrating? Do they have any special rules that makes it viable?

[Captain Semper]

Not the most expirienced around here (very little time to actually have a game), but my take is that there is nothing going for you with a pure Greenwing army. Well maybe fluff... But you get essentially a vanilla SM army which is more expensive per model than the C:SMs equivalents with fewer and more expensive options... And when you get to choose for a slot (other than troops) there is always something more appealing there. Especially after the FAQ.

 

But surely others might give you more in-depth analysis...

[Alys Dwr]

Playing greenwing you do feel like you're operating at a disadvantage but that just makes victory all the much more sweet. Like any army you have mixed success but if you're careful there is no reason to let the points difference with C:SM put you down.

 

It's always worth taking a company master for that table wide LD10. Do this in combination with some tactical marine spam and you can put a competative army on the table. Just got to play smart and pray for good dice rolls!

 

Al

[Grimdarkness]

Much like are primarch with superior planing and tactics you well carry the day.

[Brother Immolator]

So you want to play it rough?You want to play the most difficult PA marine lists,without access to toys such as iron cladsand sternguard?You want your squads to cost as much as a GK PA squad all the while having inferior weapons and rules?

 

If your answer is yes then welcome to the greenwing corps.Here our battle brothers fight adversity day and night to prove the superiority of the unforgiven.

Inflexible rules?Unreasonable costs?Nothing is going to deter the best marines in the galaxy!!!!

 

Grab your boltgun and green PA and join NOW!!!!

 

Disclaimer:In the event of victory against regular,red,grey or fury marines,dont forget to laugh loudly and remind them that they play with powerhouse dexes and that the unforgiven are tactical masters.It makes victory all the sweeter.

[Xyon]

Even if you dont take Sammy or Belly, it might still be a good idea to at least take some support from RW or DW, like 3 typhoons would be a cheap addition for cost effective point use. Tactical squads are the better choice between them, assault, and dev squads. Predators or vindicators are nice additions for the points. Veteran squads can be nice as well.

[Vazzy]

The honest truth? It's very hard. It's what I run and I win about a third of the time. If I win its an amazing game, but if I lose I'm usually tabled.Its intensely demoralizing at times, but the victory is sweet.

[shabbadoo]

It depends on the size of the game. In games where you can field a demi-Company(with auxiliaries), you will have enough units that support one another to be a threat. A game at a level where you can field a full Company(with auxiliaries) will usually have you doing better. 100 marines, plus Command and auxiliaries, is simply not very easy to deal with. If you field them using C: SM point values, you will be able to include anywhere from 1-3 additional auxiliary units, and/or a second HQ, in whatever point level game you play. In larger games you should be using 2 FOC charts, meaning there should be plenty of room for auxiliary units once you have taken into account your Company's 2 HQ slots(Company Master & Chaplain), 6 Troops slots(6 x Tactical Squads), 2 Fast Attack slots(2 x Assault Squads), and 2 Heavy support slots(2 x Devastator Squds). To that I would add a Librarian, 2 Dreadnoughts, 2 Vindicators, and 2 Whirlwinds. You might even throw some Scouts in there, if you have the points, unless you don't want to include any units from outside of your Battle Company.

[Grand Master Raziel]

There are a very few advantages Greenwing has over vanilla SMs.

 

1: Better Chaplains - Chaplains got nerfed for Codex: Ultramarines. Ours have a better statline for the same cost.

2: Command Squads - We get them for any IC in our army, not just Captains.

3: Company Vets - Okay, they don't get magic bullets like Sternguard, and a CV with a combi-weapon costs as much as a Sternie with a combi-weapon. On the other hand, we can freely mix shooty and assaulty upgrades in a CV squad. Vanilla players have an either/or proposition to deal with.

4: The LRC - Our LRC comes with the multimelta for its based cost. Vanilla players have to pay for it as an upgrade.

5: Pintle mounted storm bolters - They cost half as much for us as they do for vanilla players.

 

Not much to work with, but it's what we've got.

[shabbadoo]

Yeah, I left out Company Vets. If you use C: DA, Company Vets are a very good unit, and, as Raziel says, they can be fully decked out to beat some heads in close combat. That is where they will do the most damage, and fully make use of their base unit cost which has everything to do with them having 2 base Attacks. A unit of those with a Chaplain in tow will wreak some glorious havoc when piling out of a Land Raider Crusader in the enemy's face.

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

I almost played a list with 3 decked out Company Vets mounted in 3 Land Raiders with 2 5 man tactical squads in the first round of 'Ard Boyz.

 

Oh, wait. You wanted viable builds. Azrael is actually a pretty good character for his point if you're wanting to run Company Vets. Instead of paying the points for the Storm Shields, stick in Azzy for 240 points and you can pick up more wounds, a 2+ to shuck saves too, deadliness in combat and a squad wide 4++. That's an awesome deal for what you get.

 

Lasty, another advantage is that we can take special weapons in 5 man squads.

[Brother Immolator]

I have to say that sadaboo and Brother-Captain Sharp,have it right in all except the costs.

 

Az by himself costs as much as a landraider.If you start decking the vets they get out of hand really quick.

If you are looking for a deathstar that will comprise half your army go for it.

IMHO the best build to field az is with a command squad.A chap too(not interogators in termy armor OFC).

That too costs a ton but at least you have the apothecaries in there.

[breng77]

One other "advantage" GW has is that you can take a special weapon in a 5 man tactical squad. So we can do Razor spam ok vs, Nilla marines. (still worse than SWs and BA though) I do agree with others that if you want to play GW and not use any DW or RW models you are at a big handicap.

[Alys Dwr]

I do agree with others that if you want to play GW and not use any DW or RW models you are at a big handicap.

Too true. With my green marines i tend to always take a squad of DW tooled up for some shooting. Deep striking them in can be a useful distraction or a handy suprise depending on when they arrive.

 

Al

[Brother Immolator]

Simply put,our marines are the marines who have the largest balls out there because they fight with handy caps.

[Vanek]

You would think a rule like all tacs have relentless or something like that would contribute to the fluff

[Cactus]

You would think a rule like all tacs have relentless or something like that would contribute to the fluff

Aw man, I would love that. I have so many boltgun-toting footsloggers. :huh:

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

I have to say that sadaboo and Brother-Captain Sharp,have it right in all except the costs.

 

Az by himself costs as much as a landraider.If you start decking the vets they get out of hand really quick.

If you are looking for a deathstar that will comprise half your army go for it.

IMHO the best build to field az is with a command squad.A chap too(not interogators in termy armor OFC).

That too costs a ton but at least you have the apothecaries in there.

I'd say if you use the Lion Helm to get 10 models a 4+, Az is starting to be worth his points. 10 Storm Shields would be 150 points. Now, this is a 4++, not a 3++, so I'd say 100 points would make sense for relative value. Now subtract those 100 points and the Lion Helm from Azzy's rules. He's 145 points for Str6, 2+, with 4 wounds, and Rites of Battle. Wouldn't you say that's worth it? Even if we say the 4++ for ten models is only half as valuable as the Storm Shields, that still leaves a relative cost of 170 for Azzy's statline. Wouldn't you say that's a good deal? Running Azzy with a command squad means you only get the benefit for 5 models. That leaves Azzy's relative cost at ~195-207, by the same math that we did before.

 

Using him with a Veteran squad allows you to get the most out of the Helm. Running him with a command squad gets you an Apothecary. It's really a tossup of which is more effective for the points.

[shabbadoo]

All correct. I didn't mention costs though, but effect. As for the units getting out of hand, fast, it gets out of hand no quicker than any other unit with an average model cost of about 35 points, and there are a number of those out there. Of course you don't need to get completely stupid with the unit either. Not every model needs a power weapon/thunder hammer/whatever, as not every enemy requires a power weapon to kill it. Some of the Co. Vets. can just be left with bolt pistols and chainswords, one can have a special weapon(I prefer a meltagun for dealing with hard targets); add few can have power weapons and one power fist. Along with a Chaplain and/or Azrael joined to them, the unit ought to deal enough damage to kill most enemy units.

 

In smaller armies where you need to scrounge points, yes, use the smaller Command Squad, where the Apothecary and the standard bearer will be worth every point. In larger games, where unit size will be more important with regard to staying power, go with 10 Company Vets.

 

It depends on the enemy though. If the enemy has lots of AP 1 or 2 weapons and/or close combat attacks that ignore armor saves, then the Apothecary is going to be all but worthless, and so the Command Squad will have less staying power simply due to having only 5 wounds worth of models in it- go with a 5-man Co. Vets unit instead. If the enemy doesn't have a lot of AP 1 or 2 weapons and/or close combat attacks that ignore armor saves, then the Apothecary is going to very worthwhile, and the Command Squad will likely very annoyingly(for your opponent) stick around. The solution is to build both a Company Veterans Squad and a Command Squad. :P This actually is a very good idea, as the models built for one of the units can often be used to represent models from the other unit.

[pueriexdeus]

OMG I have a great time. It is so cool to see the look on the op's face when you hand him his backside.

 

Now with that said, it does depend on whether or not you can play anything besides a Deathstar.

 

Using no DW/RW seems to be a loosing proposition. And I can say with absolute certainty that Tactical Squads with the right support will take the field.

 

I have been a proponent of the Precise Application of Overwhelming Firepower since before it was in vogue. This exact question has been answered several times.

 

Can you play anything besides a Deathstar?

[Unforgiven2544]

You would think a rule like all tacs have relentless or something like that would contribute to the fluff

 

I have an entire company of footsloggers. (If I count successor chapters, I have 12 tactical squads)

 

even if only the Tactical Squads got it... I would be overjoyed. :)

[Brother Immolator]

I have to say that sadaboo and Brother-Captain Sharp,have it right in all except the costs.

 

Az by himself costs as much as a landraider.If you start decking the vets they get out of hand really quick.

If you are looking for a deathstar that will comprise half your army go for it.

IMHO the best build to field az is with a command squad.A chap too(not interogators in termy armor OFC).

That too costs a ton but at least you have the apothecaries in there.

I'd say if you use the Lion Helm to get 10 models a 4+, Az is starting to be worth his points. 10 Storm Shields would be 150 points. Now, this is a 4++, not a 3++, so I'd say 100 points would make sense for relative value. Now subtract those 100 points and the Lion Helm from Azzy's rules. He's 145 points for Str6, 2+, with 4 wounds, and Rites of Battle. Wouldn't you say that's worth it? Even if we say the 4++ for ten models is only half as valuable as the Storm Shields, that still leaves a relative cost of 170 for Azzy's statline. Wouldn't you say that's a good deal? Running Azzy with a command squad means you only get the benefit for 5 models. That leaves Azzy's relative cost at ~195-207, by the same math that we did before.

 

Using him with a Veteran squad allows you to get the most out of the Helm. Running him with a command squad gets you an Apothecary. It's really a tossup of which is more effective for the points.

 

Still ill deploy a belial + command squad.

[Alys Dwr]

Still ill deploy a belial + command squad.

Belial really is the best value character upgrade, if not just for us but in the entiire game. Compared to a company master with PW+SB he's +10pts for terminator armour AND scoring TDA troops. Absolute bargain.

 

Al

[Brother-Captain Sharp]

Still ill deploy a belial + command squad.

Well, yeah. But this thread is for all Greenwing, so I'm working within those restrictions. Belial and his squad are probably the most effective Deathstar you can get for their points. They definitely punch above their weight, and are a great choice, an obvious choice for competitive tournaments. Az and his squad are more expensive, but are still pretty good. If you deny yourself Belial and co, you can pick up some of that Deathstar-ness with him.