frostclaw222 Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The Emperor had found an inactive portion of the Webway. He was planning to use it as a beachhead through which to invade the Webway, and thereby drastically reduce mankind's dependence on travel through the Warp. Magnus's meddling caused the edges of that dormant portion of the Webway to be breached and somehow punctured the wards placed on its Terra terminus at the same time, thereby allowing warp entities (daemons) to manifest in this portion of the Webway and breach the Throne's portal into Terra itself. That much is fairly well established now. The questions that remain are these: -Was the Webway breach restricted to the "inactive" branch that led to Terra, or was there a backblast into the active adjacent portions of the Webway? -Even after the breach and supposed destruction of the Throne's abilities to wrest control of the Webway from the Eldar, the Emperor still was "too busy" to pay much attention to the Heresy until Horus came to Terra. Does this mean that the battle to secure the Throne's portal was protracted? Is the Emperor even to this day holding back a horde of daemons, in addition to maintaining the Astronomicon? If the Emperor were to die/ascend, would this mean Terra suddenly go invaded from its very heart? Or did the Emperor heal this portion of the Webway or seal the gate, undoing Magnus's meddling to some small degree, between the time of Magnus's long-distance call and Horus's arrival at Terra? -If there was a backblast, how much of the Webway in the vicinity of Terra was imperiled, and how great was the resultant damage to the Eldar, either in terms of unexpected axis of attack and the casualties that resulted, or by the Eldar expending manpower and resources to retake those sections (or both). -If the Emperor discovered this "inactive section" of the Webway, then who built it? Was it the Eldar, or the Old Ones? I'd think the Old Ones are the more likely builders, because if the Eldar knew, their farseers would have likely mounted a campaign of extermination, given the potential future of humanity. But also, if it was the Old Ones, what does that mean with respect to the origins of mankind? Those, IMHO, are the big questions remaining. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2987340 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Great questions Frostclaw, but unfortunatly really off topic. If you wanna discuss these points please start another thread. I for one would love to throw in my 2 cents! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2988122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valtonis Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 do i ever hate Matt Ward..... the C'Tan and thier battle with the Old ones was one of the best bit of fluff and he had to go retcon it to such a BS extent. i am seriously just ignoring ALL MAtt Ward crap fluff, like GW says i can Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2988341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkangilos Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 do i ever hate Matt Ward..... the C'Tan and thier battle with the Old ones was one of the best bit of fluff and he had to go retcon it to such a BS extent. i am seriously just ignoring ALL MAtt Ward crap fluff, like GW says i can It is not bad, and it adds a LOT of flavor. The necrons, IMHO, are far better now then they were. And it made their sacrifice seem reasonable. It really didn't change anything with the War In Heaven, it just said what happened to make it so drastic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2988371 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidice Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 As for the shards, we cannot even be sure the dragon is a c'tan, and we all know how codex fluff changes every 5 years. My personal theory is that the Dragon is the anti-emperor, a being born in the aftermath of the emperor. It is a being the master of mankind could not hopefully kill, and was lucky to survive the fight. The OP's theory does bring up a question though: During the emperor's fight with the dragon, it had a major weak spot in it unpenetrable armor. If it was in fact a shard of a C'tan, that could be the explanation of said injury to the dragon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2989508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morollan Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Didn't one of the recent WD's contain a list of the C'tan shards and what manifestations they would have? I'm fairly sure the Dragon was in the list. Edit: Found the list elsewhere: Og'driada, the Arisen. Pyreshards, Sentient Singularity Tsara'noga, The Outsider Transdimensional Thunderbolt, Time's Arrow Yggra'nya, The Shaper Moulder of Worlds, Writhing Worldscape Mag'ladroth, the Void Dragon. Entropic Touch, Sentient Singularity Mephet'ran, the Deceiver Grand Illusion, Swarm of Spirit Dust Aza'gorad, the Nightbringer Gaze of Death, Transdimensional thunderbolt Iash'uddra, the Endless Swarm Swarm of Spirit Dust, Writhing Worldscape Nyadra'zatha the Burning one Lord of Fire, Pyershards Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2989598 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So the Dragon is a C'tan and has been shattered into shards, according to White Dwarf anyway. Maybe it was shattered into a smaller number of shards? Like 95% of it is the one on Earth that was defeated by the Emperor, then theres some really tiny shards in other places. Could the dragon that Ferrus Manus killed just be an ordinary Necron construct that had been lost by its tomb world? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2989725 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Lord Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Maybe it was shattered into a smaller number of shards? Like 95% of it is the one on Earth that was defeated by the Emperor, then theres some really tiny shards in other places. Alternatively- outside a tesseract labyrinth, shards can grow. Maybe the Earth shard was similar to the others, but grew enormously over time thanks to people feeding it, as depicted in the 3rd ed Necron codex when a daemon shows Abaddon what's happening on Mars- people's life force is being fed to Something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2989905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 So the Dragon is a C'tan and has been shattered into shards, according to White Dwarf anyway. Maybe it was shattered into a smaller number of shards? Like 95% of it is the one on Earth that was defeated by the Emperor, then theres some really tiny shards in other places. Could the dragon that Ferrus Manus killed just be an ordinary Necron construct that had been lost by its tomb world? You're assuming, then, that Medusa isn't a tomb world. Seriously. Read their IA -- or even their intro bit in First Founding -- and you'll see there's an area on Medusa called the Land of Shadow where folks fear to tread due to the ruins of some high-tech, lost civilization that dot the area. It's also seemingly immune to the constant tectonic shifting that makes the planet's surface reshape itself. Add in the fact that the main character in the novel Iron Hands, Gdolkin, encounters what appears to be a Wraith prior to his acceptance into the Chapter and I think we've got a winner. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2989910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Proteus Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I'm actually reading Mechanicum right now, as I have only this book and The Outcast Dead, and I'll have read all the mainstream HH releases. I've noticed something about the mentions of the Void Dragon that gives me a different view, and I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned it. Am I the only one seeing comparisons and subtle remarks to the Dragon, as mentioned in "Excalibur" / "Morte D'Arthur" ? The breath being one such mention. A single, hidden lair on Mars being another. I have a bit more to read, but it seems like the dragon is more like an ethereal being, existing in the shadows, and having points in the universe where it seems to have greater influence, and greater accessibility. I was watching "Excalibur" the other day, and the breath, and its "cave" where Merlin leads Morgana reminded me of this. Is this possibly a "real" world Parallel? -Proteus Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2990010 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perrin Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 So the Dragon is a C'tan and has been shattered into shards, according to White Dwarf anyway. Maybe it was shattered into a smaller number of shards? Like 95% of it is the one on Earth that was defeated by the Emperor, then theres some really tiny shards in other places. Could the dragon that Ferrus Manus killed just be an ordinary Necron construct that had been lost by its tomb world? You're assuming, then, that Medusa isn't a tomb world. Seriously. Read their IA -- or even their intro bit in First Founding -- and you'll see there's an area on Medusa called the Land of Shadow where folks fear to tread due to the ruins of some high-tech, lost civilization that dot the area. It's also seemingly immune to the constant tectonic shifting that makes the planet's surface reshape itself. Add in the fact that the main character in the novel Iron Hands, Gdolkin, encounters what appears to be a Wraith prior to his acceptance into the Chapter and I think we've got a winner. Wow never heard about that, thanks! Could be a good idea for future BL novels, the medusa necrons waking up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242026-the-dragon-of-mars/page/2/#findComment-2990233 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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