captain sox Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hi everybody! Been reading quite a bit about Deathwing Terminator Squads and I was interested to see that the so called "Tactical" Terminators (Storm Bolter/Powerfist combo) are very rarely listed. Why is this? Are they just not worthwhile to take as a moving firebase (with a Cyclone Launcher or Assault Cannon) or is it more preferred to have little shooting and rely on 3++ for a majority of Terminators? Or would you have a mix of all kinds of Terminators? Let me know your thoughts Sox Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Hi everybody! Been reading quite a bit about Deathwing Terminator Squads and I was interested to see that the so called "Tactical" Terminators (Storm Bolter/Powerfist combo) are very rarely listed. Why is this? Are they just not worthwhile to take as a moving firebase (with a Cyclone Launcher or Assault Cannon) or is it more preferred to have little shooting and rely on 3++ for a majority of Terminators? Or would you have a mix of all kinds of Terminators? Let me know your thoughts Sox And the padwan steps right into the middle of the thorny debate... With the FAQ change the consensus is to field a "Tactical" squad with TH/SS, TH/SS/CML, Sarge PS/SB, SB/CF and SB/PF for wound allocation purposes but I am old school and prefer to use straight up Tac Termies and HtH termies (with a heavy weapon) in seperate squads. Read the last 10 pages or so of this thread: http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=153695 Also: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...howtopic=241974 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926078 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyon Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I'm a dakka head myself, I like putting out as much dakka as possible, usually. So I like to have between 3 to 5 storm bolters in my terminator squads, depending on models available (working on it hehe) or whether I want some protection or not. Adding some 3++ saves to the squad does improve the survivability somewhat, which cannot be ignored, and may be more or less required depending on what people use in your local area. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926138 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brom MKIV Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I honestly think tac termies are only for very narrow and specific purposes now. When the errata first came out I argued vehemently for mixed squads but as time went on th/ss just kept proving their worth while the 8 or less sb shots kept feeling more and more underwhelming. Eventually I gave in, admitted I was wrong and remodeled my army. Just my experience though so to each their own. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Use them against hordes of chum, and that is about it. So, footslogger Orks, IG, and 'Nids with lots of little bugs. They also work well enough against the freak MEQ army that doesn't have lots of AP 1-2 weapons or power weapons/fists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926463 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyon Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I would think the new necrons would be interesting to use storm bolters against too. Their new repair protocall rules ignore 'instant death' and power weapons as far as being able to repair goes, so you cant keep them from repairing unless you make them run away, or if you wipe out the squad entirely, storm bolters would help you wipe out the squad entirely with fewer squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isiah Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Tactical termies -- useful for carrying chainfists :D. Should be the backbone of all DW squads, even in this time of thunder hammer/stormshield spam. The number of times a stormbolter shot has rendered a scoring unit to non-scoring (4th edition) I can't count - and still best for whittling down squads to nothing from range now. And they are still more than viable weapons v sub-meq infantry. I still prefer the 24" kill zone that DW squads were famed for to the 12" assault zone (just my natural playstyle I guess) that currently seems the norm. And don't quote mathhammer at which is more effective: tactical or assault termies - as no matter what the result it's a psychological thing for me anyway :o. Cheers I Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tengo Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Bah! You can shoot the enemy AFTER you've ripped them to bloody shreds in close combat xD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926550 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Should be the backbone of all DW squads,.. I'm a traditionalist but lets do some mathammer anyway Tactical squad: 9 guys with bolters, Threat radius = 9 shots at 24" or 18 shots at 18" (Move and rapid fire) Termie squad: 5 with storm bolters, Threat radius = 10 shots at 30" Add heavies (other than HFlamer) to each and you have increased the number of shots for the termies and (possibly) the range while reducing the number of moving shots for the Tacticals. Lets just not get into the price of these two different squads... :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926596 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xyon Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 The sergeant can have a boltgun too, dont forget, so you could have 10 with bolters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926683 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Kovash Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 I still have 2 full squads of shooty terminators, and they come in handy more often than not. Playing against horde armies is a given, especially orks or tyranids. Both squads have assault cannons to increase the volume of fire available. Also against MEQ the power fists are no joke. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2926716 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I would think the new necrons would be interesting to use storm bolters against too. Their new repair protocall rules ignore 'instant death' and power weapons as far as being able to repair goes, so you cant keep them from repairing unless you make them run away, or if you wipe out the squad entirely, storm bolters would help you wipe out the squad entirely with fewer squads. That's the hilarious thing. They always do run away, and all you have to do is run them to the edge of the table (not very far unless your opponent is silly and actually comes towards your termies). 1 attack each at strength 4 in CC is not adequate enought to level out the casualties from Thunder Hammers/Lightning Claws. Especially Lightning claws due to I4. The Necrons don't stand up until after the combat results are in and leadership tests made, so there will always be a significant modifier... Unless you botch it up, of course. *Glares at the dice* I am in full support of trading a Storm Bolter in for a Storm Shield. Storm Bolters do not kill enough and a 5+ invulnerable save doesn't protect enough. A 3+ invulnerable save keeps your squads in the game to keep firing their heavy weapons. Krak Missiles removing enemy transports, monstrous creatures etc., Frag missiles using myriad templates a turn to create a massive hole in a horde army that Storm Bolters aid only so much towards. Also from experience, my TH/SS army has won 6 games straight so far, 5 of which were total annihilations. My normal Terminator army with only 2 men with TH/SS has little over 50% win ratio. P.S. I love how Necrons can't be pulled out of close combat by a Monlith anymore. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2927021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Yesterday I played my first 5th ed. game with DW. I only had models for 5 squads with TH&SS so the sixth squad was a "tactical" squad with 4 SB and 1 AC. They died horrible death compared to the TH&SS (though massed fire will take down either) I'm thinking that the days of Full 5++inv saves are over, the 3++ save is much needed and there should be at least two 3++ saves per squad. I still need more games under my belt to reach a final conclusion of what works for me though... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2927034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven2544 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 My Terminator Loadouts are varied. I have the following: 1st Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x2 CF/SB PF/AC [First Squad is where the Apothecary and Standard Bearer go, usually replacing the Assault cannon with a heavy flamer] 2nd Squad: LC x3 TH/SS x2 3rd Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 4th Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 5th Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 6th Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 7th Squad TH/SS x5 8th Squad PW/SB PF/SB x3 PF/SB/CML 9th Squad TH/SS x4 TH/SS/CML 10th Squad TH/SS x4 PF/HF 11th Squad PW/SB SB/PF x3 SB/PF/CML 12th Squad PW/SB SB/PF x3 SB/PF/CML And I'm still adding more. Respectfully, --Unforgiven Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2927042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Turnbull Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 My Terminator Loadouts are varied. I have the following: 1st Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x2 CF/SB PF/AC [First Squad is where the Apothecary and Standard Bearer go, usually replacing the Assault cannon with a heavy flamer] 2nd Squad: LC x3 TH/SS x2 3rd Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 4th Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 5th Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 6th Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 7th Squad TH/SS x5 8th Squad PW/SB PF/SB x3 PF/SB/CML 9th Squad TH/SS x4 TH/SS/CML 10th Squad TH/SS x4 PF/HF 11th Squad PW/SB SB/PF x3 SB/PF/CML 12th Squad PW/SB SB/PF x3 SB/PF/CML And I'm still adding more. Respectfully, --Unforgiven Emperor protect whoever you fight an Apocalypse match with! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2927047 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven2544 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 My Terminator Loadouts are varied. I have the following: 1st Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x2 CF/SB PF/AC [First Squad is where the Apothecary and Standard Bearer go, usually replacing the Assault cannon with a heavy flamer] 2nd Squad: LC x3 TH/SS x2 3rd Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 4th Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 5th Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 6th Squad: PW/SB PF/SB x3 CF/AC 7th Squad TH/SS x5 8th Squad PW/SB PF/SB x3 PF/SB/CML 9th Squad TH/SS x4 TH/SS/CML 10th Squad TH/SS x4 PF/HF 11th Squad PW/SB SB/PF x3 SB/PF/CML 12th Squad PW/SB SB/PF x3 SB/PF/CML And I'm still adding more. Respectfully, --Unforgiven Emperor protect whoever you fight an Apocalypse match with! :) No one wants to.. ;) I have a full third company of Dark Angels, plust members of the 1st company and 2nd company (73 Terminators, and 40+ bikers at last count) [Codex: Dark Angels] Almost a full fourth company of Angels of Absolution [Codex: Space Marines] enough for large game (or small apoc game) of Angels of Redemption [Codex: Blood Angels] And roughly 1,000 points of Disciples of Caliban [Codex: Black Templars] Building my 5th Company of Dark Angels now, and still debating the plunge on DA 6th company bikers (Codex Space Marine biker army...different from the Ravenwing). Maybe, once I'm back in the States, I'll be able to get some apocalypse games in. If I can find a friendly neighborhood game store. (Being Stationed overseas helps with the collecting...but not with the gaming. I pretty much missed 5th edition entirely if the 6th edition rumors are true) Very Respectfully, --Unforgiven Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2927053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Captain Sharp Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I run tactical terminators in every list. Mainly it's for some ranged teeth and wound allocation. Also, I find that my squads built for objective holding (so a larger emphasis on being able to engage at long ranges) benefits more from the Storm Bolter shots than it would from unit wide 3++. With 5th, 4+ cover saves are so abundant I have no problem securing at least that for my terminators. Additionally, the low AP weapons are usually focused on my 2 assault terminator squads. A 4+ cover to a 3++ isn't worth the loss of the SB shots past the first two for me. From an earlier post: I know a lot of people have been advocating 5x TH/SS and a CML, but I find that 2 storm shields is plenty and losing the Storm Bolters isn't worth it to me. With the 5x TH/SS if you are out of position, you have to decide to either run or shoot 2 missiles. With storm bolters still in the unit, I can still provide fire support if I am separated from the main action. That's important to me, as tactical flexibility is high on my list of wants in a list. Each DW army I run has 3 different terminator squad roles. Assault squads which ride around in LRCs and consist of nothing but CC weapons and maybe a CML, mid-range Terminator squads with 3 SS, 1 CF, 1 PW, and a heavy weapon (used to just be a CML, but Necrons have shifted my views to mix in an Assault cannon or 2). Lastly, ranged support squads have a CML, 3 Storm Bolters, 2x SS, a PW, and a CF if points allow. Each unit can still hurt in assault, especially if I can correctly maneuver so that my mid and long range terminators fight the enemy units that aren't combat specialists. However, the presence of the Storm Bolters allows me greater tactical freedom as my squads can be effective against infantry squads from 30" away. So chalk me up as a supporter of non-SS DW armies. And Unforgiven, I feel your pain. I so rarely get to put the whole DW on the table. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2927083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have a full third company of Dark Angels, plust members of the 1st company and 2nd company (73 Terminators, and 40+ bikers at last count) [Codex: Dark Angels]Almost a full fourth company of Angels of Absolution [Codex: Space Marines] enough for large game (or small apoc game) of Angels of Redemption [Codex: Blood Angels] And roughly 1,000 points of Disciples of Caliban [Codex: Black Templars] Building my 5th Company of Dark Angels now, and still debating the plunge on DA 6th company bikers (Codex Space Marine biker army...different from the Ravenwing). Maybe, once I'm back in the States, I'll be able to get some apocalypse games in. If I can find a friendly neighborhood game store. (Being Stationed overseas helps with the collecting...but not with the gaming. I pretty much missed 5th edition entirely if the 6th edition rumors are true) Very Respectfully, --Unforgiven That's a disgustingly large collection of unforgiven!!! I think I'll stop once I complete the 5th company and 40 termies...(in terms of ravenwing, I have seven painted bikes [not counting the bike chappy] plus seven more on the sprue, one MM AB, two tornadoes, and two primed-but-unpainted typhoons...I might at some point add another AB, but that's as far as I'll go with the second company). %th company has five tactical squads and one dev squad done, and sprue for the other tac and dev squads, in addition to enough random models with special kit to form a couple tooled vet squads, zeke, chappy. For termies, I have 29, including all three HQ varieties...mostly painted (some TH/SS arm combos are bare plastic on otherwise fully painted models-blame my rush to prep for ard boyz). My armory is a bit light, with one TLLC razorback, one trilas predator, one FW drop pod, one whirlwind, three assorted vennies, two crusaders, one mars pattern...and there's a terminus ultra on my painting table. Eventually, I want to be able to field the third company (complete, and with Zeke along for the table-wide LD10 PH), a thunderhawk (with 15 termies on board), and all four land raiders (with 17 total termies, TDA IC and belial being the bonus) in an APOC game... That should come to about 6-7k points... getting there will require a lot more painting, but remarkably little in the way of purchases...20 assault marines, five more termies (I want a total of ten more to be able to take eight squads in normal 40k), and the Thawk. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2928430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unforgiven2544 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have a full third company of Dark Angels, plust members of the 1st company and 2nd company (73 Terminators, and 40+ bikers at last count) [Codex: Dark Angels]Almost a full fourth company of Angels of Absolution [Codex: Space Marines] enough for large game (or small apoc game) of Angels of Redemption [Codex: Blood Angels] And roughly 1,000 points of Disciples of Caliban [Codex: Black Templars] Building my 5th Company of Dark Angels now, and still debating the plunge on DA 6th company bikers (Codex Space Marine biker army...different from the Ravenwing). Maybe, once I'm back in the States, I'll be able to get some apocalypse games in. If I can find a friendly neighborhood game store. (Being Stationed overseas helps with the collecting...but not with the gaming. I pretty much missed 5th edition entirely if the 6th edition rumors are true) Very Respectfully, --Unforgiven That's a disgustingly large collection of unforgiven!!! I wouldn't say 'disgusting' :blush: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2928505 Share on other sites More sharing options...
egon1six Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'll bite. DW Squad 1-4: LC and CML DW Squad 5-8: TH/SS and CML DW Squad 9-12: PS/SB, AC/PF, CF/SB, X3 PF/SB DW Squad 13-16: PS/SB, HF/PF, CF/SB, X3 PF/SB DW Squad 17-20: PS/SB, CML/SB/PF, CF/SB, X3 PF/SB And last but not least my command squad: All options available! (magnets!) Banner, Apothecary arms for all options as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242088-tactical-terminators/#findComment-2928541 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.