DH Iron Warriors

[G3rman]

Hey guys, back again for some help.

 

So after reading the DH and thoroughly contemplating how much I love the Iron Warriors, I have decided to make (or at least start) a Grand Company! In case you were curious, the Second (II) one to be specific, lead by Warsmith Kolvax. In the standard universe he is the ill-fated commander of the Fortress world Forgefane, which fell to Hive Fleet Leviathan. In the DH universe, he holds Forgefane as a fortress world of Iron Warriors and is coordinating the defense against Leviathan as well as Ultramarine expansion in Segmentum Tempestus.

 

Anyway, get that silly fluff out of here. What I came here for is some help again to look over my plan for the army which, as in the spirit of the Iron Warriors, is to be defensive and heavy-hitting. I know the general tendency is fast moving mech armies, and I will have some forces that are mobile for objective games, but I wonder if you can help me to the challenge of making an effective turtling, firebase of marines and armor with the standard codex (unless another would apply).

 

Please do not make comments that this will not win me tournaments and/or is a waste of time if I want to make a win-all-the-time list. I'm semi-competitive at best and don't expect to win often with this, I just want it to stay true to the IW.

 

Lets start with;

 

HQ

 

Warsmith Kolvax (Can count-as MoTF or Captain/CM)

Combi-melta

Power Weapon

 

If MoTF he will most definitely be accompanied by servitors. I was thinking Plasma Cannons being the norm for them, but HB might make them more survivable?

 

As Captain, how would I best run him? I want to have a foot version as well as a bike version (As I don't see IW making heavy use of jump packs), so I suppose he is going to be an all-rounder that gravitates along the fireline offering support where needed. I see him having a command squad either way to soak up wounds, and if placed on a bike, would be used to repel enemy assaults on the line before they reach it.

 

Speaking of the command squad..

 

Foot:

5-10 Veterans

Apothecary

Champion

Standard Carrier

 

That leaves me 7 veterans to work with wargear I suppose. I figure that command squads, while they are basic marines for the most part, lean toward melee combat. In this sense I figured it would be best to keep combi-weapons and special weapons minimum while most focus on melee weapons in case the line gets assaulted. Higher point games I would think to give them storm shields so that they can soak up heavier firepower they might receive with a higher survival rating.

 

Suggestions for specific outfits?

 

For bike they would be totally melee-oriented with perhaps a melta or plas, and they would mainly be used for fast moving harassment and tying up oncoming forces.

 

Not much to ask for the MoTF, as he will most definitely stay behind the line and offer his own fire support with the servitors. Conversion Beamer worth it?

 

IW as far as I can tell make little use of Librarians at all, nor do I have much experience with one. Chaplains aren't mentioned either but I feel like being siege fighters they would keep morale high with one's sermons and such, so I plan to incorporate them in smaller point games as well.

 

With HQ covered, we move onto..

 

Elites

 

For a static firing line, Sternguard seem to be the obvious choice to have scattered along the table providing specialized fire where needed. Terminators as well would be the hulking tanks that keep the line from faltering, taking heavy fire as well as being able to dish it out with Cyclones and Assault Cannons.

 

Bolters being their main weapon anyway, I don't see much that should be changed really. Add a combi-weapon when I can and probably have the sarge change the bolt pistol to a power fist?

 

Haven't had much experience with termies to be honest, any suggestions on how to field them with a static army? Or perhaps an assault unit inside a LR for fast-response?

 

Troops

 

While IW in the fluff would rather make extensive use of servitors for the main fighters and use SM as reserve forces, I can't take a servitor-heavy force unfortunately. Although, I could contemplate on using scout troops count-as..

 

But that is for another time, for now lets keep it simple with SM tac squads. These guys will make up the main part of my firebase as well as be the foot soldiers to lead the creeping advance across the table (If necessary for objective taking).

 

As I don't plan on fielding Devs for anything but small point games (So much armor needed for so few slots!), these guys will need their share of flexible use of heavy weapons. Flamer/Plas for special weapon with ML/Plas for Heavy. I plan on having my armor dedicated to ripping up enemy armor to swiss cheese so these guys should be the infantry killers. For games that will be objective-based, I figure have at least one squad mounted in a rhino because we can't have foot sloggers winning games can we?

 

A sound plan for the bulk of my forces? What do you think?

 

Fast Attack

 

A section that an IW Warsmith would cringe in annoyance and boredom I'm sure, but they are very useful for harassing enemy forces as well as leading them into our kill zones.

 

The main thing I think of to use would be..bikes, bikes, and maybe scout bikes. An assault squad to move along the line to provide a melee skirmisher perhaps, but overall just fast moving bikes to run circles around our opponent and mess with their plans when our firebase can't.

 

For this I was just planning to take a look at the Bike tactica, but if you have particular experience or opinions on it go right ahead.

 

Heavy Support

 

Oh, so many choices and so little space!

 

Devs would be used in smaller point games if deemed necessary, but they are mainly a waste of a spot when we get higher up in points.

 

Thunderfire might be fluffy and make sense for a firebase, but I would much rather have a tough LR than it. Could use opinions on this.

 

Land Raiders as always would depend on the opponent and the scenario. Redeemer for hordes, Crusader for offensive termie attacks, and vanilla for a good all-rounder firebase. Opinions on how best to use it?

 

Predator has its own combinations too, and this was the main vehicle I was thinking of to make enemy armor swiss cheese if necessary. Tri LC can make it somewhat expensive, but no one can say it wouldn't be effective at what it does.

 

Vindicators are fluffy as well, and are something I would consider for a more aggressive movement forward with its short ranged weaponry. If anything they would provide cover for advancing infantry and make a mess of anything in front of them, that is if they were fielded. I feel overall that the points could be spent elsewhere.

 

Whirlwinds are very specialized and a hit or miss, but definitely something a firebase should/could use. Would only be considered if I faced a horde army though of course.

 

So with all my views on the army out of the way, what help can you provide me with tactica? I know most of you are indoctrined with 6th edition fast moving mech armies, but I would appreciate those who can appreciate my turtling, defensive tendencies and really help me out here.

 

I just want to do the IW justice is all.

 

Thanks!

[spartan249]

First things first. Mobility is arguably the most important trait an army can possess in 40k, as the players' ability to position quickly and capitalize on weaknesses immediately depends on it. That being said, mobility can be achieved in a few ways. Most people associate the concept of mobility with speed. Many don't associate reach and size with mobility, and it's important to realize this distinction before we go any further in a discussion of unit selection and loadout tactics.

 

If you want to make a SM gunline, be advised that you will require much more close quarters capability then you would if you were going the more conventional mechanized method, as you will be purposefully cutting yourself short in speed, thus give your opponent more control over where and when combat will occur. With this in mind, you're going to need units that don't skimp on firepower, but also bring the heat in close combat. Dreads and Terminators immediately come to mind, as both bring adequate capability in each. For your case, I'd suggest you bring double cyclone terminators and base your force around them because they will fulfill all of your needs: They can apply firepower on the move, they have a long range, and they are quite formidable in close combat when they are required to engage in it.

 

For your HQ, I think someone who will complement the ability of the terminators will do nicely. Normally, I'd recommend Lysander because he fits in perfectly with such a squad, but it seems that you will not be using special characters for fluff reasons, so I suggest you go with the MotF option. Bolster a ruin, sit back in cover with some tech servitors, and shoot that beamer, I say. The bolstered ruin will contribute to the durability of vehicles posted inside (especially thunderfire cannons) and provide a place for your marines to camp out with 3+ cover saves.

 

For your tac squads, keep em cheap and bring quite a few, cause you're going to lose a few marines guaranteed if you're going to hunker down. My suggestion on weapons: Meltagun and Lascannon. While the Lascannon is a shoe-in for obvious reasons (high strength, long range, value pricing on tacs), the Meltagun is more ambiguous in terms of benefits. While the range is limited and the ROF leaves something to be desired, they provide a means with which to dissuade those would-be tank shockers throwing you off of objectives, which will no doubt be a problem with the strategy you are choosing to adopt. I would suggest 4 minimum tac squads for your purposes, as they will be cheap and easy to fit in and, in your chosen style, absolutely necessary to stand a fighting chance.

 

For heavy support, run what you want. I would personally not recommend the land raiders, as you don't plan on moving very much with your main force. If you don't plan on using the mobile firepower principle, then don't even bother bringing them, as you will be paying huge points for features that will be of no use to you. Instead, take the Predators/Vindicators, as they will provide much more firepower point for point. That being said, don't discount Devastators as a weapons platform. Combined with the backup from Terminators and a bolstered ruin, they can last quite a long time under fire while raining pain. Sometimes, using Devastators can be more effective then using predators/vindicators, as vehicles are always subject to being silenced. Devastators will not be silenced until they are either killed or scared off, not an easy feat when they have 3+ cover saves.

 

Now, you should not neglect the very important fast attack section just because of your love affair with siege warfare. The battlefield will very rarely be under your control, so you must prepare for missions/scenarios that will be horrendously bad for full earth-type armies. My suggestion? Bikers. Bikers bring super-mobile firepower and disruption that you can use to either intercept incoming threats and delay engagement or to go out and silence troublesome enemy units in the backfield that are causing problems for you. In addition to this, they provide you with the means to exert a small measure of control over objectives, as you will be able to contest, maybe even control (with a biker captain), a rather large area with them. I would personally suggest plasma guns and a multi-melta attack bike to maximize engagement range and damage output against targets bolters can not engage efficiently.

 

Take all this as open brainstorming, not as hard suggestions. Think about what I said, then think about what ideas have merit and what ideas you can combine with other units you may wish to use.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

If you are going for a foot Beamer MOTF, one set-up that I want to try but have not yet had the opportunity to would be to stick him with not servitors, but with a Dev squad with lascannons and plasma cannons. That way, you've got three high-strength tank-busting shots when firing at long range, and then three high-strength blast templates at medium range if an appropriate infantry target presents itself.

[G3rman]

Thanks for the replies guys. Glad to see that there are players on here that understand I want help getting good combos that fit in fluff instead of just throwing my fluff idea out the window.

 

I figured I would need to be prepared for assault, sarges would be good with power fists and power weapons I figure. I hope that in higher point games I will deploy a second HQ captain (to go with a main MoTF) which will have the heavy melee unit to maneuver to support the line.

 

Never had much experience with termies but you can't deny how useful they would be, I will definitely look into getting some.

 

I like your idea for the tac squad because even if I plan to have Predators, such a powerful gun would be useful in case the tank goes down. Melta would discourage getting close to the squad, but I think I will still throw a few plas/flamers of course.

 

I figured a heavy tank like the LR would be useful to soak up fire and open up on the enemy with heavy guns, but I guess that's not a popular choice. I plan to use Preds as shooting platforms when I play defensively where Vindicators will be used when I need to go on the offensive (great cover for men to hide behind).

 

And yeah, bikes were the plan for Fast Attack from the start. Might use scouts as well for their mines and grenade launchers.

[nurglez]

I've thought about running an iron warrior style list using the marine codex, although due to aiming to be shooting focused, you would need counter attack capacities.

 

Pedro looks like a good choice, stubborn seems to suit the theme of iron warriors, as well as equipping the count as Pedro with an assault cannon to replace dorn's arrow, and scoring sternguard for a shooty squad, as well as +1 attack for models that are near. Although if you dislike special chars, I don't rate the conversion beamer that highly, and would prefer better repair capabilities and he just looks better ^_^

 

Cyclone terminators are a good choice, as well are dreads, as mentioned above.

 

The only thing I dislike about the sm codex is tactical marines, been playing chaos for so long that they just seem so ill equipped, and losing combat tactics doesn't seem that great for a shooty force, of course with a sternguard squad scoring, that could help only with only having a few troops.

 

I like devestators, often using a havoc squad with my chaos undecided force, although dawn of war does screw them over.

 

Maybe a vanguard squad would make a good counter attack force, and a landraider can be useful to block line of sight and provide cover to static elements, over in the inquisition forum crynn has used this tactic to good effect :D

[spartan249]

Thanks for the replies guys. Glad to see that there are players on here that understand I want help getting good combos that fit in fluff instead of just throwing my fluff idea out the window.

 

I figured I would need to be prepared for assault, sarges would be good with power fists and power weapons I figure. I hope that in higher point games I will deploy a second HQ captain (to go with a main MoTF) which will have the heavy melee unit to maneuver to support the line.

 

Never had much experience with termies but you can't deny how useful they would be, I will definitely look into getting some.

 

I like your idea for the tac squad because even if I plan to have Predators, such a powerful gun would be useful in case the tank goes down. Melta would discourage getting close to the squad, but I think I will still throw a few plas/flamers of course.

 

I figured a heavy tank like the LR would be useful to soak up fire and open up on the enemy with heavy guns, but I guess that's not a popular choice. I plan to use Preds as shooting platforms when I play defensively where Vindicators will be used when I need to go on the offensive (great cover for men to hide behind).

 

And yeah, bikes were the plan for Fast Attack from the start. Might use scouts as well for their mines and grenade launchers.

 

To be honest, sarges will not suffice for close combat insurance. In the end, each dude will have 1 attack, and no amount of bling you throw on the sarge will change that. Compared to Grey Hunters, Blood Angel assault marines, Grey Knights, Chaos Marines, etc, C:SM tac marines will always be horrendously bad at close combat. What those upgrades do is provide you with a last ditch option for emergency situations where a charge with tac marines is your absolute last option. So no, CC upgrades on tac marines will not prepare you for assault, they will begin to prepare you for assault (rather inefficiently, at least in my experience).

 

I'll say this about melee specific units. I think you should avoid taking a unit that specializes in close combat to the exclusion of all else, as unit versatility will be key to squeezing every bit of efficiency out of the force. Examples of these would be things like Vanguard Vets, Assault Terminators, and Ironclad Dreads. Units like Biker command squads, those Terminator squads, Honor Guard, etc, bring more to the table because they bring the ability to engage the enemy in all phases of the game, thus expanding their options in battle. For example, let's say that you are fighting against Chaos marines in one battle. In this situation, Assault Terminators will no doubt be useful from the get go, as Chaos typically has shooting elements and some assault elements that close in. In such cases, the ATs can immediately begin moving to engage the chaos forces and shape the battle by influencing the opponent's tactical decisions. Take that same unit against Orks or Nids, and you are suddenly wrestling with dead weight that is waiting for the rest of the list to shoot it up, because ATs are easy prey for a large number of tyranid units.

 

I would be weary of going too top heavy in your list with HQs. You can usually buy a unit that has much more capability in the Elites slots. If you are going to incorporate a second HQ, I suggest you take that HQ for a purpose that no other unit in the codex can fulfill.

 

In regards to the LR, I'll say this. First off, LRs are tough, but their price tag takes into account the versatility of the heavy transport. If you're going to use the LR as a fire magnet, then I think the Rhino is the vastly superior choice for that because they're cheap and take no slots, meaning you can have a whole lot of them and make all sorts of walls and blockades that, if ignored, will severely hamper the enemy's ability to close the distance. Furthermore, in terms of firepower, Predators win hands down. Point for point, they present more then twice the firepower of the LR and, ironically, are more durable as well because they consist of two tanks and both are much smaller in profile, making it easier for them to claim cover saves.

[OptiMAT]

For decent siege-based Fast Attack might I suggest Land Speeders?

 

If you have 3, you open yourself up to a lot of options.

You could have one of each variant, giving you access to decent siege weaponry, multiple missiles, or the cheaper points options that can tank bust (Melta only)

With three, you can cover all your FA slots individually and spread them out across the battlefield, or, put them all in one squad and go tank hunting.

They're weak when they get shot at, but they're an undeniable threat to the enemy too even when they're the only part of your army swooping around the army.

 

Plus they're decently sized vehicles which makes them great for a tech heavy army.

 

That's my 2 cents, anyway.

[Paulochromis]

To be honest, sarges will not suffice for close combat insurance. In the end, each dude will have 1 attack, and no amount of bling you throw on the sarge will change that.

All SM sergeants are Veteran Sergeants, so 2A base.

I like the Pedro suggestion, his Inspiring Presence (even from inside a transport 11.99" away) will take that to 3.

That said, you still need a counter-assault unit. Assault termies, honour guard, command squad, vanguard, assault marines and even assault scouts or tactical termies can function in this role.

Dreadnoughts (preferably with DCCW) also work well. Slightly more esoteric options include servo-harnessed techmarines.

 

Cheers, Paul.

[G3rman]

So I've finally gotten my hands on some models and was wondering what you guys thought I should do for my commander. I'm going to start with Siegemaster (Captain) Maximos as my new force's first HQ, but I wonder how best to use him?

 

I was thinking..

Relic Blade

Stormshield

Auxiliary Grenade Launcher

Artificer armor

 

This would be fully kitted out and would be toned down for lower level games, excluding the little upgrades like melta bombs and such. Should I get him a jetpack or keep him on foot to benefit from a proper command squad?

 

I got a battleforce set and I think I will be doing LC/FL and ML/PG for the special/heavy weapons loadouts. Scouts will get shotguns, assault marines will get the standard loadout with maybe a special weapon added in. I also have some sanguinary guard that will be messed with to become vanguards.