earemir Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Hello everyone. I'll be playing in a local tourney in a few weeks and there is a opponent that got me thinking. He's a good GK player. His list is as follow: Crowe 4 Purifiers(x5) 2 PsyC, 2 Halberd, 1 DeamonHammer, Rihno 3 Venerable Dreads 2TLAC 2 Dreads 2TLAC 1 Dreadknight My plan to win the match (eventually) is based on several points: a. take advantage of his psycannons short range by putting on my side as much long range as I can (first blowing up the rhinos, normal dreadnoughts and later the venerables). b. use armor 12 or superior to minimize damage from the dreadnoughts ACs. c. target saturation: attacking from several fronts. d. Since he has to move forward to reach my tanks we'll eventually split his army e. I'm taking Meph just to countercharge or as a defense against the dreadknight My list: 1 Mephiston 1 Grapple-Melta-Frag-DP Furioso 4 RAS in LC-PG Razorback 1 RAS in LC LandRaider 1 Scouts ML/snipers 2 AttackBikes MM 1 StormRaven TLLC/MM 2 Predator LC/AC What do you think? Other options are: - 2IP/PF Vanguard to hold the venerables - Assault Termies and be more assault oriented - I tried DoA without success Any help will be very appreciated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
the jeske Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 how are psycanons short ranged when A GK have fortitiude rhinos [and even without those the range is 12+24" or 12+24+2" disembarked] B he has more shoting then you have and your razor unlike his rhinos can be stuned [no idea why he takes the NDK . if he runs a crow puri build a rifle dread or switching the rhinos to razorbacks would have been better]. If you are sure that he brings that list and you want to tailor then just bring LR and terminators . this will mean the only working anti tank he has will be the rending psycanons [and those will have to rend ] and the NDK in hth. very good against crow builds specialy as you can buy LR for your troops. as SR goes . a av12 huge skimer vs 8 psycanons [ from 16 to 32 rending shots] and 8 twin linked str8 autocanons[16 shots] is a dead storm raven Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/#findComment-2926892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
spec.ops Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Mech BA just doesn't sit well with me when others do it just as well if are not better - Crow. Whenever it comes to, "how to beat X army," it always comes down to the BA Holy Trinity: -Priests -RAS -Attack Bikes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/#findComment-2926957 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morticon Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 how are psycanons short ranged when A GK have fortitiude rhinos [and even without those the range is 12+24" or 12+24+2" disembarked] Jeske- just a small correction though, remember you cant fire out of a vehicle that has moved over 6" - fast or not. So range is 6" + 24" embarked. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/#findComment-2927080 Share on other sites More sharing options...
earemir Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 how are psycanons short ranged when A GK have fortitiude rhinos [and even without those the range is 12+24" or 12+24+2" disembarked] B he has more shoting then you have and your razor unlike his rhinos can be stuned [no idea why he takes the NDK . if he runs a crow puri build a rifle dread or switching the rhinos to razorbacks would have been better]. Is not pure since he has only 5 dreads, same for me, I always use JumpPacks and a i can put only few vehicles. The thing is, I've draw two times him and it was using a list similar to the one I showing. He always use his rhinos to provide cover and I've seen that if I can manage to separate the rhinos from the dread is good enough to take advantage of the open flanks (no cover) with my predators and bikes. If you are sure that he brings that list and you want to tailor then just bring LR and terminators . this will mean the only working anti tank he has will be the rending psycanons [and those will have to rend ] and the NDK in hth. very good against crow builds specialy as you can buy LR for your troops. I agree with the land raider + termies. I even used once 5 termies + Priest deepstriking and only a couple died (his whole amy shotting at the termies) but it's too risky, I charged a VenDread and spent 3 turns with it. I always see LandRaider Crusaders getting wrecked by Psycannon (32 PsyCannon = 1 or 2 LR a turn) that's why I'll spend fist two turns shooting at max range. as SR goes . a av12 huge skimer vs 8 psycanons [ from 16 to 32 rending shots] and 8 twin linked str8 autocanons[16 shots] is a dead storm raven Yes if you are in range, the 4 BSM are 72" so I'm trying to shot at max range (or moving from reserve) and then advance. There is a 30% probability that you can blow up a Dread with SR (with the dread in cover). Which is not that bad. Now you are assuming that every dread is shooting the SR, good, that will give me a change to move my furioso, bikes, meph and land raider close enough to cause some damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/#findComment-2927113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
earemir Posted November 19, 2011 Author Share Posted November 19, 2011 Mech BA just doesn't sit well with me when others do it just as well if are not better - Crow. Whenever it comes to, "how to beat X army," it always comes down to the BA Holy Trinity: -Priests -RAS -Attack Bikes Yeap, I always play fluffy armies. I have an army with 60 Jumpers (3RAS, Priest, Librarian, 1VV, 1Chapi, 1HonorGuard) but every time I play against GK this my "usual" list I get my a$$ kicked. Dread can easily ignore FNP and 20 S8 shots are 5 JP death a turn. On the other hand 32 shots from PS are 4 JP death a turn. And with I6 halberds is not that easy. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/#findComment-2927121 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I think a DoA list would be your best bet. Sure he has lots of firepower but very few halberds. With all those dreads he will wreck razorbacks. A big squad of assault terminators in a landraider would be good too. If you use a SR then you'll have to be careful to protect it so it can deliver its payload. If you load up on meltas it should be easy to take out those dreads. G :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/#findComment-2927150 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corby Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 how are psycanons short ranged when A GK have fortitiude rhinos [and even without those the range is 12+24" or 12+24+2" disembarked] B he has more shoting then you have and your razor unlike his rhinos can be stuned [no idea why he takes the NDK . if he runs a crow puri build a rifle dread or switching the rhinos to razorbacks would have been better]. Is not pure since he has only 5 dreads, same for me, I always use JumpPacks and a i can put only few vehicles. The thing is, I've draw two times him and it was using a list similar to the one I showing. He always use his rhinos to provide cover and I've seen that if I can manage to separate the rhinos from the dread is good enough to take advantage of the open flanks (no cover) with my predators and bikes. If you are sure that he brings that list and you want to tailor then just bring LR and terminators . this will mean the only working anti tank he has will be the rending psycanons [and those will have to rend ] and the NDK in hth. very good against crow builds specialy as you can buy LR for your troops. I agree with the land raider + termies. I even used once 5 termies + Priest deepstriking and only a couple died (his whole amy shotting at the termies) but it's too risky, I charged a VenDread and spent 3 turns with it. I always see LandRaider Crusaders getting wrecked by Psycannon (32 PsyCannon = 1 or 2 LR a turn) that's why I'll spend fist two turns shooting at max range. as SR goes . a av12 huge skimer vs 8 psycanons [ from 16 to 32 rending shots] and 8 twin linked str8 autocanons[16 shots] is a dead storm raven Yes if you are in range, the 4 BSM are 72" so I'm trying to shot at max range (or moving from reserve) and then advance. There is a 30% probability that you can blow up a Dread with SR (with the dread in cover). Which is not that bad. Now you are assuming that every dread is shooting the SR, good, that will give me a change to move my furioso, bikes, meph and land raider close enough to cause some damage. This arguement is fine if you want to play vaccum hammer. But in a relastic sense this isn't feasible. Due to the size and range afford by both the stormraven and the Psyfleman's autocannons respectively , its unlikely you're finding some magical point where he can't shoot you. Just because the Bsms are 72" range doesn't mean they'll magically find themselves miles out of range from enemies dreadnoughts. The only situation where I can see this happening is when the enemy castles in a corner very tightly and you deploy your stormraven castling in the opposite corner (Even then , he has 5 dreadnoughts who he can spread out and hide pretty easily due to the model's size). While this will let you fire the bloodstrike missiles safe from retaliation from the dreadnoughts , it also means the stormraven won't be getting close to the enemy for several turns , even with 24" turbo boosting. Which wastes the stormraven's main strength of being able to get into the enemies face in a single turn. As for moving on from reserve and shooting all the missiles , this isn't possible , due to the size of the stormraven model , and the Gw Faq that wings are now considered part of the vehicles hull. While you can certainly fire 2 missiles while moving on (1 from moving 12" and 1 from power of the machine spirit , this isn't exactly effective either , as your opponent will likely have cover to block your shots). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/#findComment-2927190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Nathan Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 mephy (ought to) smash that list (to be honest) . With the help of a assault squad or 2 to tie up other units before they all pile onto him. having played againt grey knights recently in a tourney and knowing the pain all those powerweapons can bring hes still faster than their halberds and tough enough to take the swings from them too and the fact he has a hood allows him to block some of their powers from getting off. Though i cant speek for crow as i havent read his rules but he can do a lot more damage agaist knights than you would think with all those powerweapons and forceweapons attacks... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/#findComment-2927876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
earemir Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Thanks for the feedback guys, yeap I do agree my plan is possibly flawed. I didn't know the issue with the SR coming from reserves. Anyway i made some changes and I'm finally taking this list: Mephiston – 250pts Librarian in Terminator Armor w/ Stormshield (SoS /UR) – 145 pts 5 Assault Termies (2LC/3TH) – 215 pts 5 Assault Marines w/ MeltaGun in Razorback w/ Assault Cannon – 165 pts 5 Assault Marines w/ Flamer in Razorback w/ Assault Cannon – 160 pts 5 Assault Marines in Razorback w/ Twin Link Lascannon – 155pts 3 Predator Destructor w/ Autocannon and Lascannon Sponsors – 135pts c/u 1 Land Raider Redeemer w/ Multimelta – 250 pts 1 Land Raider w/ Multimelta – 260 pts What do you think? this one is more aggresive but I'm lacking on scoring units so I have to be very careful. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/242134-how-to-beat-gk/#findComment-2930281 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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