Yes, played in another Tournament

[littlbitz]

Yesterday, my son and I went to Jester's Playhouse, in NJ.

 

About 20 people in attendance for this 1500 point, 3 game event.

Some interesting missions, with some decent armies (though paint is lacking at this venue.)

 

I took my Space Wolves (of course) and my son went took his Dark Eldar for their first outing outside of the safety of our house.

 

I ended up 2nd over-all due to drawing against the 2nd place player (I was 1st going into game 3) on table 1 in game 3. This allowed the 3rd place player to jump me by 5 Battle Points, and stealing 1st place.

 

After much thought, and scribbling of my own lists, and reading HDLs list over on the Army List Forum I just couldn't find a way to fit Logan into a 1500 list and still feel like I had enough punch. In the end here is the list I took.

 

HQ: Wolf Guard Battle Leader (young Thorgrimm) with a pair of Wolf Claws

 

Troop: Blood Claws x8(+1 Wolf Guard with Storm Bolter and Power Fist) Flamer, Power Weapon, Plasma Pistol

Mounted in a Rhino Transport

Troop: Grey Hunters x8(+1 Wolf Guard with Combi-MG and Power Weapon) Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Plasma Pistol, Power Weapon, Standard

Mounted in a Rhino Transport

Troop: Grey Hunters x8(+1 Wolf Guard with Combi-MG and Wolf Claw) Plasmagun, Mark of the Wulfen, Plasma Pistol, Power Fist, Standard

Mounted in a Rhino Transport

Troop: Grey Hunters x5 with Meltagun and Plasma Pistol

Mounted in a Razorback with Twin-linked LasCannon

Troop: Grey Hunters x5 with Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol

Mounted in a Razorback with Twin-linked LasCannon

 

Heavy Support: Predator with Twin-linked LasCannon and LasCannon Sponsons

Heavy Support: Predator with Twin-linked LasCannon and Heavy Bolter Sponsons

 

1497 Total

 

I have to say that at the end of the day I am really happy with this list. I may make some minor tweaks to it, but it would mean sacrificing some of its story value for game effectiveness, so I am still a bit unsure.

 

I should note at this point that there were several other Space Wolf players in attendance. Two that I noted had the typical Long Fang spam, one however had Drop Pods, the other your typical Razorback spam. The third, (which I played against in game 2) was a bit different, he had a Rhino with Grey Hunters and a Lord, a second Rhino with Grey Hunters and a Rune Priest, 2x Grey Hunter packs in Drop Pods, a Whirlwind, and a Vindicator. Of course he had Wolf Guard in all the packs.

 

Sadly, I realized that I forgot my camera about half the way to the store, so failed to get any pictures. I will however give some brief Battle Reports when I get a chance.

[hendrik]

if you were to make changes i would suggest changing the wolf guard battle leader into a wolf priest or runepriest. a 110 pts close combat character without an inv save seems terribly risky imo. a wolfpriest might be the perfect change, not really altering the way the list is played much. the lack of rerolls to wound would easely be made up for by the prefered enemy

 

on a side note: how much games do you get in each month?! :cuss : i'm lucky if i can play a game once in 3 months!

[littlbitz]

That is EXACTLY the change I was thinking Hendrick. I was going to swap the Battle Leader for a Wolf Priest. I shy away from Rune Priests in my Great Company as my Wolf Lord is extremely superstitious and they spook him.

 

Right now with my son involved in the Hobby I have been playing one night a week, and then we travel to a game store for a RT tournament nearly every weekend.

So for the last 8 months or so I have been averaging 5-6 games weekly. I guess that helps explain why I can get away with playing subpar lists.

 

Though this recent one is pretty tough at 1500 points. I mainly upped my list potency because of the local group I have been coming up against recently and their increase in game play ability to deal with certain aspects of my normal lists.

 

Have to keep them on their toes ya know :lol:

[Jaarl Stormfang]

Your GH loadouts are pretty refreshing. How do you find them? I assume these are the sort of things you wish not to change for story reasons? It just seems you could cut a lot of points by dropping plasma pistols, moving fists to wolf guard leaders things like that. Enough for a scout squad or something.

 

If you like the loadouts for story that's cool of course, or is it for a tactics reason? Concentrating strength by mazing out upgrades perhaps.

[Vantius]

Sadly, I realized that I forgot my camera about half the way to the store, so failed to get any pictures. I will however give some brief Battle Reports when I get a chance.

 

Mr. littlbitz,

 

If you would, please give us a quick report of how each unit performed (as you did with your mech con outing). I think it would help many in understanding the dynamics of the seemingly unconventional squad and wargear compositions that you choose.

 

Thanks for the updates. You are inspiring me to try some of the more interesting ideas I myself have been wanting to put into play.

 

-V

[Coverfire]

Kind of curious as to the role you had designed for your Blood Claws to play; the Wolf Guard Pack Leader armed with a stormbolter rather than a c/melta is an interesting decision and I would have dropped the plasma pistol to upgrade the Blood Claws Powerweapon to a powerfist - sure their base attack is 1 but with a +2 charge bonus and quit frankly the longer Blood Claws are in combat the more disadvantaged they are.

 

I also think the Grey Hunter Packs are too tooled up but this looks to be a very aggressive list, I would be be interested to know what areas you felt you had major advantages and disadvantages and the changes you would make.

 

Coverfire

 

P.S. Which squad did you prodominently place the Wolf Guard Battle-Leader in? Blood Claws? I thought a Wolf Priest would be a better choice...

[Ragnars Claw]

How do you find the plasma pistols?

 

They were a staple for me in the old codex but at 15pts for 1 i've been leaving them at home in the new book although they are still niggling away in the back of my mind.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I used to take 3-Las Preds for my Templars, and they are cheaper than C:SW.

 

The other Templar players said give the AutoLas Pred a go, and I was surprised at how little its effectiveness dropped in a bang for buck sense. For you, with paying the extra because of being a 5th ed. Dex user, it might save you plenty yet won't actually cost you anything from the Pred itself, in a value for points sense....

 

Just spit balling.

 

I'm glad someWolf is finally giving the Pred a whirl. I know the Missile Fangs are very good, but the Pred has been good to my Templar lists, and helps with AV saturation of the enemies guns, if you're bringing transports galore. Mix it up a bit, I reckon ;)

 

And if you are bringing Preds and Rhinos, you can run Dreads too. Dreads die due to reputation and not being especially hardy. But most guys will only be bringing X amount of AT guns, so bring X+ of AV :)

[littlbitz]

Thanks for all the responses guys!

 

Where to start?

 

Let me begin with a brief overview of the 3 games, then I will go into a unit by unit analysis, and finally I'll talk about the proposed changes. That should cover everything (I'll do this over a couple of posts).

 

Game 1 was against the Imperial Guard. I liked the list, not a typical tournament list that you see everyday. He had roughly: A Command HQ with Master of Ordinance, an Infantry Platoon (only the command section had a Chimera) 4 squads, 2 with Missile Launchers, and 2 with LasCannons this Platoon also had a Heavy Weapons squad with Heavy Bolters, some Veterans with Sniper Rifles, a Missile Launcher, and Harker with his Heavy Bolter, A Sniper Squad, Marbo, A standard Leman Russ Battle Tank, a Leman Russ Exterminator with Pask, and a Basilisk.

The mission was Annihilation, and a Pitched Battle Deployment. The mission had a tweak in that on the 1st and 2nd turns destroyed units were worth 1 KP, on the 3rd and 4th 2 KP each and in turn 5+ 3 KP each.

In all of the missions there were bonus Battle Points for killing your opponents Commander, keeping your most expensive unit alive, and by having a scoring unit in your opponents deployment zone.

 

I won the roll off for first turn and set up in a very aggressive fashion, with all of my Rhino Transports center (the Wolf Guard Battle Leader typically rolls with the Blood Claws), I then split my heavy weapons with a Razor and Pred each on my far left and right flanks in an effort to maximize my fields of fire.

Of course my opponent manages to seize the initiative, for those keeping track that is 3 times in 6 tournament games that an opponent has seized on me :)

 

Luckily there was plenty of terrain, and his shooting was effected. He managed to stun my Blood Claws Rhino, and immobilize my Razorback and Pred on my left side.

 

In my turn I decided to stick with the plan and play aggressively through out. I used the immobilized Razorback as a gun platform, and kept those Grey Hunters inside, not wanting to give up the easy KP to my opponent. There they would stay, drinking beer and listening to the sounds of battle. I did the same with the immobile Pred, this was the one with the Heavy Bolter sponsons. I decided I would need some infantry support on that side, so moved my other Razorback into a good position, moving it 12" to my left and popping smoke, taking up a field of fire to try and get some side shots on the Battle Tanks, while putting me in a good position to disembark and move towards some IG infantry. My two GH Rhino packs surged forward popping smoke. While my other Pred concentrated fire with all of its Lascannons on Pasks Exterminator.

 

Marbo made a timely appearance and throws a demo charge on my Battle Leaders ride blowing it up and leaving my Blood Claws and Battle Leader in a crater who are promplty pinned. Smoke saves both my other Razorback, and one of the Rhinos, the other being wrecked and causing my Grey Hunters to disembark, they are however close enough to Harker and his crew that I will get a charge in next turn.

 

In my turn I disembark my small Grey Hunter pack and advance on some infantry, with the immobilized tanks laying down fire support to cover their advance. I shove my still operating rhino down my opponents throat, while my other Grey Hunter pack lays a beat down on Harker and his crew.

 

The Guard player begins frantically shifting his lines, and pours a tremendous amount of fire power into the pinned Blood Claws, only the Battle Leader remains, he decides to go for broke and sends in Marbo to attempt to take out "Young" Thorgrimm who promptly cuts him in two with his Wolf Claws.

 

Now I'm in his midst, My Predator wins the tank battle against Pask's Exterminator and it is just a matter of clean up. Over the next couple of turns I end the game tabling him with something like 22 KP to 6 KP. I earn the full 23 possible Battle Points for this mission.

 

Game 2 was against another Space Wolf Player, I mentioned his list above, it had the Lord, Rune Priest, some Drop Pods, Rhinos GH packs, a Vindicator and a Whirlwind, oh and he had some scouts (I forgot to mention them earlier).

This mission was an objective based mission with 5 Objectives, the twist here was that you scored up the points for having the objectives at the end of each game turn. So if at the end of turn 1 I held 3 and my opponent held 2, then the score would be 3-2. The bonus objectives were the same.

Again, it was a pitched battle deployment. My opponent won the roll off for 1st turn, and after observing his set up, I deployed in a tight formation out of the range of his demolisher cannon.

He played aggressively, but due to our deployment, was only able to take 2 Objectives. In my movement phase I did likewise, and positioned my Rhino with Blood Claws and Battle Leader to take a 3rd in turn 2.

Once I got the upper hand on the objectives, I positioned my Predators with one mission in mind, take out the Demolisher. This happened in turn 2, immobilizing it and taking its gun away. It wasn't destroyed, but I made it worthless to him (it was more than 3" from an objective, so it wasn't even contesting anything). At the end of Turn 2 I had 3 Objective to his 2.

Over the course of the rest of the game he spent his time trying to take me off of one of my 3 objectives. The problem he ran into was that he choked himself in and couldn't get to me in any kind of concentrated fashion, while I was able to attack him with multiple squads. His Rune Priest was worthless this game, and his Wolf Lord died to concentrated Lascannon fire (over the course of several turns)

I don't mean to down play this game, as there was some epic hand to hand on the center objective. I think this is where all those little upgrades I gave my Grey Hunters came in handy. The Standard, MotW, PWs, and even the Plasma Pistol shots all gave me the upper hand even though he had a couple of extra guys.

His scouts did come on a bit late this game, and headed right for my Blood Claws Rhino, whiffing with his Meltagun, and out of charge range they ended up stranded as my Battle Leader exited the vehicle leaving the BloodClaws to their drinking and promplty killed the scouts. Then calmly walked back to his ride and rejoined the party within. The only other action the Blood Claws saw that game was the Storm Bolter of the Wolfguard and the Rhino taking pot shots across field.

By the end of turn 6 he had no scoring units left and I was sitting on 3 objectives, My Blood Claws on one, and my 2 small GH packs each holding another. My two larger GH packs had all fallen in combat by that point.

So at the end of turn six the score was 17-8 when we called it and decided not to even roll for a turn 7.

21 Battle points for game 2.

 

This put me on table 1 going into game three, against Brad and the brand new Necron Codex ;) ...

[Chalx the grey]

Great reports, thanks for sharing.

I am curious about your unorthodox GH setup, the lack of LF and the WGBL, it is great to see this kind of deviations from the norm! As has been suggested I would swap all those plasma pistols and some toys for a scout pack.

 

Now come on, we want to hear about those new necrons ;-)

[littlbitz]

So game 3 was against Brad, now Brad is a younger fella that I have known for many years at Jester's, he has been playing since he was about 13 and I think he is in his early 20s now. The thing about Brad is he is a Necrons player, a very good Necrons player. He is also one of those guys that loves to pour over a codex and try to break it.

 

Brad has had a few games with the new book, and has been working out different lists. The list he took in no way represents his "goal" list, but has a collection of units with certain abilities in it so he could test what he likes and dislikes in actual game play rather than just "Math-hammering".

 

This would be my first outing against the new book, so I knew I was in for an uphill battle.

 

Brad's army consisted of roughly the following: He took to Special Characters as his HQ choices both with a page of special rules each, as an elite choice he took a C'tan shard, he had a sqaud of Destroyers, some warriors with Necron Lords, some Immortals, a Monolith, I think he had something else, but I don't know what it is called.

Anyway, right off the bat, regardless of mission, he would have "Night Fight" a special attack on every one of my units hitting on a 6, then causing d6 S8 hits, in the first turn all open ground would be difficult, and throughout the game all difficult terrain also counts as dangerous.

I told him he wasn't playing 40k, he was playing Magic the Gathering with a "Blue Denial" deck.

 

The mission was Secure and Control with some minor changes. There would be 2 objectives in each deployment zone. Controlling your own objectives gave you 1 point for each, controlling an opponents would get you 2 points for each.

 

Brad won the roll off for first turn and gave me first turn. After watching my deployment, and deploying himself, he then seizes initiative. This happens on a 4+ due to another special character rule.

 

He spent his first turn taking up position, and taking a few pot shots and using the special shots to try and pop a tank.

realizing that his goal was to scare me into not moving because of the difficult ground, but realizing that staying put was also not an option because of the objectives and Night Fight, I decide to surge forward anyways. I send my assault force of 3 Rhino Transports forward, while my Preds and Razors defending my home.

 

Night Fight ended up lasting 3 Turns, this seriously hampered my shooting and allowed the Monolith, Destroyers and C'tan to get much closer than I liked. At the end of the day, I nearly pulled it off. After a massive assault of BloodClaws, and my Battle leader killing a bunch of Immortals and causing his 2 special Characters off the board, I thought I could do it. In the end the fire power of the remaining Necrons proved to be too much and he killed my assault force to a man. In the last turn of the game I attempted a tank shock on a squad of warriors to at least contest one of the objectives and give me a minor victory (would have been enough to win the tournament) but I rolled a one and immobilized myself. :)

 

The game ended in a draw with us each controlling our own objectives.

 

Over-all, perhaps the most frustrating game of 40k I have ever played. After the game, I went home and spent some time with the codex. I think the majority of the frustration was from the game changing effects his army had, not any kind of "Raw Power" but in the actual "Rules Changing" ability his army had. Next time I will be ready.

 

This game, however is making me seriously consider equipping some of my Rhino Transports with Dozer Blades (I roll ones entirely too often).

 

Next I'll do a unit by unit performance review (as requested by Vantius) and I will spend some time answering the specific questions.

 

Thanks for reading!

[Emptyedens]

Damn so pissed I had to work. Sounds like a really good showing. Really great battle reps littlebitz, I could see every turn in my head as I read it. Thanks

[littlbitz]

@ Marshall Whilhelm: I have been giving thought to the Destructor with Las Sponsons. I actually have two Pred kits at home, in the box waiting to be put together. I may try running a pair of those. especially since in larger lists I do in fact run a pair of Dreads (as you can see in my Mechanicon report). I am also giving consideration to changing up my Dread load out as well. Giving each a single twin-linked auto cannon for even more ranged dakka. (I'm going to avoid the Rifleman Dread for a variety of reasons)

 

@ Chalx the Grey: Unorthodox is what I strive for :down: Some of the toys I am considering dropping though most will stay. I really like the idea of a Scout pack in this list (more on that later)

 

@ Ragnars Claw: I love Plasma Pistols, and used 2 in every pack right up until the new codex came out. I stopped using them mainly due to 2 reasons, 1. You can only take one per pack now, halving your output and 2. the increased points cost. these two things really turned me off of them for quite awhile. I added them back into this list mainly because of model availability, but am really glad I did, they performed quite well. Not game changing mind you, but well worth the investment. (well, maybe not the BloodClaws Plasma Pistol)

 

@Coverfire: My BloodClaws are mainly my "Shock Troops" I currently have a Power Weapon in that pack due to model availability, I am working on a BloodClaw with a fist and I agree with your assessment there. I do have some Power Fist models, but they are Grey Hunters, and I am a bit of a stickler with who goes where in my army. I took the Storm Bolter just for some added anti-infantry fire power. Against things like witches and genestealers, I can scoot the Rhino 6" throw out a flamer template, and 4 Bolter shots (two from the pintle, and two from the WG), this has worked well keeping those BloodClaws safe from getting in over their heads.

My thoughts on the tooled up Grey Hunter packs is this, My Grey Hunters are workhorses, and need to be able to handle any situation. I want my GHs to have all of the tools at their disposal for whatever mission I may need them to complete. Isn't all the toys what seperates us from just another Tactical Marine? Besides, 10 GH with 2 Melta in a Rhino are good, but drop them down to 8 or 9 and add some toys and they become great...

The Battle Leader typically went with the BloodClaws, and yes a Wolf Priest is a better option. That is the one thing I have been struggling with, as this force (as with my other lower point games) typically represents Thorgrimm's Battle Force prior to his elevation to Wolf Lord. However, I am considering the Wolf Priest because I really like the idea of using him (my WP on a bike is excellent) I could use it to represent a portion of Thorgrimm's Great Company in a specific theatre of battle, with Thorgrimm being elsewhere with other parts of the Great Co. no real stretch there I guess for me to make the switch.

 

@Jaarl: I love kitted out Grey Hunter packs. They work and they work well. That being said, I am considering a few minor tweaks for my packs. As you have already pointed out about the Fists, I agree. I actually went with the Fist on a whim to see if the Fist attack on the GH helped or not. Was more of a why not give it a whirl type situation. In the end, I am probably going to go back to the Power Weapon. I'll discuss this in more detail with my unit by unit breakdown.

 

I think I answered all of the questions.

 

Next I'll do my unit by unit analysis.

[littlbitz]

Hey Emptyedens, you going to make the 1250 at GvE this Sunday?

 

Lets do a unit by unit review,

 

The Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Wolf Claws: For 110 points, I really think he did his job. He did pretty well in HtH even with the lack of an invulnerable save. I like having him for "Fluff" reasons, but as others have said a Wolf Priest would be much better at this points level, especially running with the Blood Claws.

I am definitely am going to make this change. This change also saves me 10 points.

 

The Blood Claws: x8+1 with Plasma Pistol, Flamer, and Power Weapon. The Wolf Guard Pack Leader has a Power Fist and a Storm Bolter, mounted in a Rhino Transport.

I don't care what anybody says about Blood Claws, they never fail me. Even when they all die they have done their job. They are cheap and killy. My anti-infantry CC unit. People are afraid of them or they underestimate them, so they either take much more fire power than their actual threat or they are ignored and I get to raise some hell with them. I even use them on occasion to take objectives. Lets look at what they did in the 3 games on Sunday. In game 1, they took the full brunt of an Imperial Guard army, allowing my Grey Hunters to get into position. In game 2, they held and objective for 4 turns, gaining me those Victory Points for the massacre. In game 3, against the Necrons they wiped out a squad of Immortals with 2 Special ICs attached forcing them to fail a Leadership check and wiped them out, single handedly (ok with the help of the Battle Leader) taking out nearly a third of my opponents army.

I could go on and on about the Blood Claws and how I use them, but I think I will save that for an article in my Blog or its own discussion. Suffice it to say they are good, and they are staying in the list.

The one change I am going to make here is drop the Plasma Pistol (it is nice to have, but I can use the points.) and swap the Power Weapon for a Power Fist. I gain another 5 points with this change.

 

Grey Hunters: x8+1 with MG, Standard, MotW, PW, PP, the Wolfguard has a Power Weapon and a Combi-mg. Mounted in a Rhino. I like this pack as is. It's large, and packs a punch and I allow enough room for the HQ to hitch a ride. I have thought about dropping the PP in the pack but I like the extra fire power.

 

Grey Hunters: x8+1 with PG, Standard, MotW, PF, PP, the Wolfguard has a Wolf Claw and a Combi-mg. Mounted in a Rhino. Here I agree, I don't need the Power Fist on the grey Hunter. Switching this for a Power Weapon saves me 10 points, I can also swap the Wolf Claw for a Power Weapon. The re-roll for a single Wolf Claw in a pack has shown little return for the extra 5 points. I save another 15 points here.

 

The above two Grey Hunter packs working together for me is key. Concentrating on one enemy unit at a time and then moving on, they can quickly "stick and move" through my opponents army.

 

Grey Hunters: x5 with MG, and PP mounted in a Razorback with Twin-linked Lascannon. While I love and fully believe in having my larger packs equipped with all of the bells and whistles, I don't think it is needed here. The Melta and Plasma is nice to have, and the shots proved useful in taking out the C'Tan in game 3, but using it one out of 3 games doesn't make these options a must have especially considering that I was taken by suprise with the new Necron Codex, so made some mistakes. Their job is to take objectives and baby sit the Razorback. If I am moving them out it is because I am going after a weak target, or I am in deep doodoo. I think I can drop both the Plasma pistol and the Meltagun here and get another 20 points.

(though if I have the spare points after the full re-work, they will get the MG back, as I think it useful)

 

Grey Hunters: x5 with PW and PP mounted in a Razorback with Twin-linked Lascannon. Same as above.

 

When I used the above units for their designed purpose they did exactly what I needed them to do. If I am in trouble, I try to arrange it so that both units work in cohesion with one another so their fire power and CC hitting power doesn't seem so weak.

 

The Predators: I love these two. The anti-tank they can throw down range is impressive. The Predators stay. I do like Marshall Wilhelm's suggestion and am going to try the Destructor with Las sponsons. I don't know if I save any points on that change though as I don't have my Codex in front of me. (I will get back to you later on this one)

 

So before I make the Predator changes I have 70 points saved. If the Predator changes save me any additional points then I can add that Scout pack that Chalx suggested.

 

When I get home I will rework the points and post the refined "new and improved" 1500 list.

[TiguriusX]

If the Predator changes save me any additional points then I can add that Scout pack that Chalx suggested.

 

I love reading your after action reports LB. Makes me feel like I am a member of your gaming group. And as I have no free time for hobbies (22 month and 3 week old) I get to live vicariously through my wolf brothers.

 

FYI downgrading the turret on your predator saves you a whopping 45pts per predator. I second the idea to make the change. AC still great against MC and transports. And if you are firing at heavy armor you still have 2 LC sponsons. The points saved can make a big difference elsewhere.

 

I think you have approx. 160pts to play with if you retool.

 

You can make yourself one heck of a scout squad with all the toys. I'm talking 2xPlasma pistols. Don't forget scouts with PP are fluffy ("it is also common for a Wolf Scout pack to be equipped with the rare and priceless plasma pistols, the better to destroy armored targets"). And the scouts are much more accurate than the Blood Claws :tu:

 

For example

5xScouts

Melta + 2xPP

WG

Combi-melta + PF

 

Total: 158

[Jaarl Stormfang]

He doesn't quite save that much. From what I understand he's giving them both lascannon sponson, and as one of them has heavy bolters at the moment that's 35pts for the upgrade. So it's 55pts he'll save from going to two AC/LC preds.

 

Nice unit by unit analysis littlbitz.

[Emptyedens]

Hey Emptyedens, you going to make the 1250 at GvE this Sunday?

I wasn't planning on as I didn't know there was one. What time does it start, I am off this Sunday....

[Vantius]

Your analysis should be inspiration for all! I am so glad to see someone who understands the blood claws worth in the Space Wolves codex. Way to often, blogs are supposedly writing "tactics" on how to use them, only for them to beat the dead horse that "hunters are better," instead of actually giving them a shot. I guess I shouldnt complain though, as it will likely keep them infamous (which is one of the key reasons they are successful, IMO).

 

Thanks littlbitz. :)

[littlbitz]

Thanks for the imput guys!

@Emptyedens: if you are there by 1:00 pm you should be good. Let me know if you can make it.

[Emptyedens]

Yeah I'll be there.......GvE has a good environment and I haven't gotten to play there much yet. BTW Jesters is also running one @ 2000 points same bat time, same bat channel. Got a 1250 Rune Priest, Two dread list ready.....

[Marshal Wilhelm]

@ Marshall Whilhelm: I have been giving thought to the Destructor with Las Sponsons. I actually have two Pred kits at home, in the box waiting to be put together. I may try running a pair of those. especially since in larger lists I do in fact run a pair of Dreads (as you can see in my Mechanicon report). I am also giving consideration to changing up my Dread load out as well. Giving each a single twin-linked auto cannon for even more ranged dakka. (I'm going to avoid the Rifleman Dread for a variety of reasons)

 

I ran a pair of Dreads with Assault cannon, Heavy flamer, Extra armour & Smoke launchers. They did well, as I was using 5 man Multi melta bunkers. The bunkers drew a lot of heat, for carrying a MM and being TROOPS, and so this combined with my list having Preds and Speeders in it as well, allowed the Dreads to do quite a bit of damage to both Infantry and AV, with my precious TROOPS not being exposed to small arms fire prematurely.

 

I am glad to have passed on what others have recommended to me and worked for me once put into practice. :cuss

 

+++

 

I was perusing Fritz's blog the other day and he had a curious tactic to mention, which he noticed from a CSM player, who usually did quite well, in spite of the poor design of their codex. And the CSM player wasn't using Oblitz, Plague Marines, Lash, etc.

 

He had 10 man squads in Rhinos. But he would disembark them ASAP. Isn't that counter intuitive? Yes. But the CSM player figured it was better to take some casualties early on, in an effort to preserve the transports for a turn or two. Who is going to shoot at an empty Rhino, right?

Usually, for me anyway, the transports are all destroyed by the end of the game, if I am losing, and my precious Marines are getting shot in the face with small arms fire. And dying.

 

But in T1-2, maybe the enemies small arms are not really in range of his Marines, or outside of rapid fire-double shot range, at the very least. So the casualties suffered by small arms is low in these first few turns.

 

So is you foe going to plink away with Las cannons, etc. on his Marines to much effect? Imo, not really. And the whole idea of targeting a full transport is to shake/stun the thing into immobility at the very least. Well who cares if you do that to an empty transport?

 

In the meanwhile, he deals with enemy AT and AV as best he can, so that when he does mount up, the enemy is light on tools to deal with the transports, and only has a few turns to do so. The enemy is stuck with impotent small arms fire at the end of the game, which now have to deal with the overlooked transports.

 

I thought to mention it to you as you are prepared to try new things, regardless of the think tank and even others naysaying.

 

Make of that that tactic what you will :lol:

[Ragnars Claw]

Thats an interesting tactic. I can understand the thought process behind it, i'll try it next game and see how it works out.

 

'Bitz, thanks for taking the time to answer my question. Think i will give plasma pistols a whirl too :lol:

[Chalx the grey]

For example

5xScouts

Melta + 2xPP

WG

Combi-melta + PF

 

Yeah TiguriusX, that scout squad is what it's all about! A bit overkill with the two plasma pistols but it certainly makes your opponent sweat regarding what will happen when it comes on any table edge :lol:

[littlbitz]

Updated 1500 points list

 

Ok, taking everyone's advice into consideration I reworked the list. Check the link above...

 

Oh Wilhelm, that tactic sounds like it could have some merit. Though situation will dictate, I think it is something that I may try.

[Captain Idaho]

I love your battle reports, as your lists are not the ones we usually see competeting in tournaments.

 

New list looks good.