Problems with DoA army

[TMK0377]

Hey guys. I played my first two games with an all jump infantry list last night. During the first game, I reserved and deepstruck everything. I was happy when every unit I had rolled up, from reserve on turn 2. That joy went to sorrow very quickly when one unit mishapped to within 1" of my opponent. That unit rolled a 1 and was destroyed. The next two units scattered close enough to land some guys in cover, so that I had to take a few dangerous terrain tests when they landed. I lost 3 more marines. Even with DoA, I still scattered 6" each time. After losing 15 marines including my librarian, out of 48, on turn 2 without my opponent even firing a shot, I conceded. I needed a do-over! I asked to play another game, with same opponent. This time, I decided to only DS the melta honor guard I have, and the 2 vanguard sqds. Everyone else deployed normally. The honor guard scattered enough to keep it just out of that 6" melta range from a land raider redeemer, which cooked two of the meltas next turn. One vanguard sqd landed just out of charge range of a vindicator that got to pound on the rest of my forces for one more turn. The second VV showed up later, but eventually destroyed another vindicator. Meanwhile, the rest of my army performed underwhelmingly, having to take dangerous terrain tests any time they assault or touch any cover. I managed to get assaulted on two occasions, which chewed up the squads. If you don't get the charge, you can pretty much kiss a squad goodbye. With the prevelence of cover in 5th edition, I feel that jump infantry and deepstriking seem like a liability. I felt like I was fighting two enemies, my opponent, and the board! Is this how DoA is supposed to play? Or did I just totally screw up?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

You just had some really horrid luck. Don't give up on the army.

 

G :)

[Daddywarcrimes]

It can take a while to get comfortable with where to drop and where not to drop your squads. I've found that one of the things that makes it work the best is Combat Squadding everything as it arrives. Positioning 2 squads of 5 is a lot easier than landing one squad of 10. I've also come to terms with the idea that not everything needs to land aggressively. Using a few units to press a refused flank by dropping and running to present a threat in the next turn is a good way of dictating maneuver.

 

Also, there are no dangerous terrain tests for assaulting into Difficult Terrain. Jump Infantry make assault moves as normal infantry.

[knife&fork]

Learning to play DoA is tricky and there is always an element of chance since you often depend on your reserve rolls. Usually you want to go second and keep things in reserve, but not always. It can be beneficial to start with all or the majority of your models already on the table.

 

Jump infantry only have to take a dangerous terrain test if you start, end or move through difficult terrain in your movement phase. Not when running in the shooting phase or any type of movement in the assault phase. Moving like jump infantry is optional for every unit with a jump pack (except for JP DC moving towards an enemy unit more than 6" away) so many times it's better to just move 6" like normal infantry.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Here are some of my DoA tactical articles over on my blog:

 

http://greenblowfly.blogspot.com/search/label/DoA

 

G :D

[Brother Chris]

This is possibly cheating (not in the spirit of DoA) but I have taken to having Corbulo for the chance to re-roll the worst reserve roll. Last time we were fighting at 3000 points and the battlefield was looking very crowded. Try it again. There are even more war stories of DoA grabbing objectives, attacking rear armour and so on.

[darkenedsquire]

The dic gods did not smile on you it seems and it can happen to the best of us lady luck is a fickle mistress. Don't give up it takes a bit of learning and experience to know roughly how close you can drop things and the best place to drop things also try to get into you head approximately what 6" is that is very important for this type of army in deciding where to drop and what you can do to recover if the dice don't favour you.

[Drunken Angel]

You had horrid luck, you dont always need to drop right on top of your target you are often bettter landing around 14" to 18" away depending on the tactics, next turn shoot and assault or assault.

I only drop right onto the back of tanks not troop carriers as its better to shoot the transports then assault what falls out of them.

I got a thrashing from a combined GK Necron 4000 pt list the other night but right at the end game one priest charged and took out three GK terminators on his own. Lemartes vapourised a squad of 10 warriors on his own.

Even the Necron player conceded despite beating my BA DOA he rated DOA as his biggest nigthmare ( I was denied any DS and had to start on the table second turn). DOA are still a big threat to new codexes GK and Necrons, not many armies can say that.

FNP is huge. Stay with the BA it can only get better by the sound of it

[Daddywarcrimes]

This is possibly cheating (not in the spirit of DoA) but I have taken to having Corbulo for the chance to re-roll the worst reserve roll. Last time we were fighting at 3000 points and the battlefield was looking very crowded. Try it again. There are even more war stories of DoA grabbing objectives, attacking rear armour and so on.

 

Definitely agree on this. There is an upper limit on where DoA works, based on army size. I've found that 1500 to 1750 is the sweet spot. More than that gets overcrowded and less means you don't have the tools to make the strategy work.

[Glendor]

I once killed my whole army on the deepstrike table besides a melta honor guard and librarian which failed to hit a razorback with all four shots and then was killed by a direct hit from a vindicator...

 

The worst part was how my opponent didnt say something like, "Wow you had bad luck would you like to play again?" Instead he proceeded to brag to others about how he killed my whole army on turn 2 without taking damage. However besides that I rarely have luck so bad it takes away all chance of winning.

 

Also Black Orange's blog is a great blog to read for DOA articles and general insight in 40k. There is also a DOA tactica on here that is quite helpful.

[Coopervisor]

It took me a few games before I managed a win with my DoA force. Getting used to knowing where to drop stuff is very important. Especially as you are never sure when or what you will have come down. Think on your feet as stuff arrives and work with what you have. Either dropping in close to melta tanks, or dropping away behind cover to capture objectives. You will always receive a large amount of return fire before you get the charge (unless using VV...), so try to take that in to account, give your enemy lots of targets, split his fire, etc.

 

Something that has worked for me pretty well, is a JP honour guard squad with 4x plasma guns. It worries less about landing within melta range, can put out 8 Str 7 AP 2 shots on landing, enough to hurt any MEQ, elite infantry or even light vehicles. This often then gets a lot of attention of shooting in return, thus leaving my RAS and SG alive, etc to charge next turn.

 

Dante is normally a good pick in a DoA list I find. He brings lots of things to the table that can be useful, including deep striking without scattering for any squad he joins. Hit and run is also very useful if you get charged once you land.

 

Keep at it, practice makes perfect, etc. Although it does all depend on how the dice gods favour you.

[Pavement Artist]

This is possibly cheating (not in the spirit of DoA) but I have taken to having Corbulo for the chance to re-roll the worst reserve roll. Last time we were fighting at 3000 points and the battlefield was looking very crowded. Try it again. There are even more war stories of DoA grabbing objectives, attacking rear armour and so on.

 

Am i missing something here? There's already a re roll for the jump pack folks due to the DOA rule.

[knife&fork]

This is possibly cheating (not in the spirit of DoA) but I have taken to having Corbulo for the chance to re-roll the worst reserve roll. Last time we were fighting at 3000 points and the battlefield was looking very crowded. Try it again. There are even more war stories of DoA grabbing objectives, attacking rear armour and so on.

 

Am i missing something here? There's already a re roll for the jump pack folks due to the DOA rule.

Only for the reserve roll, not for the scatter.

[Brother Chris]

Corbs can help on the deep strike mishap roll, too.

[Morticon]

After losing 15 marines including my librarian, out of 48, on turn 2 without my opponent even firing a shot, I conceded. I needed a do-over!

 

There's your first mistake.

 

Using what little you have to the best of your ability is what will allow you to learn and get better.

Just quitting like that was a major problem. You learned nothing except that bad luck sucks.

 

 

Secondly, there will come a time that you will need to go balls-to-the-wall with your placement and strike into dangerous places. However, you should know your inches well enough to place safely every time - and by safely I mean in a position that wont scatter-mishap.

[JamesI]

After losing 15 marines including my librarian, out of 48, on turn 2 without my opponent even firing a shot, I conceded. I needed a do-over!

 

There's your first mistake.

 

Using what little you have to the best of your ability is what will allow you to learn and get better.

Just quitting like that was a major problem. You learned nothing except that bad luck sucks.

 

 

Secondly, there will come a time that you will need to go balls-to-the-wall with your placement and strike into dangerous places. However, you should know your inches well enough to place safely every time - and by safely I mean in a position that wont scatter-mishap.

This is good advice. Playing at huge disadvantage can be a great way to learn.

 

I played 2 team games yesterday. In both of them my teammates ran out in front of a huge shooting enemy and were blown off the table. Both games I basically fought with half the points and nearly managed to pull off both games.

 

Practice is the only way to get used to where the safe Deep strike positions are. I have been starting to play pure DOA with my larger BA army and it takes some time to figure out where is safe for units not attached to Dante to drop.

[Brother Chris]

Luck plays such a big part in 40K, I would have to suffered worse than 2 turns of reserve mishaps before I conceded. DoA is probably one of the least risky reserve strategies. It has obvious more elements of chance than deploying everything on turn one, but this should even out by surprising your opponent and keeping your troops out of harms way until they arrive. Who's to say if the librarian and troops had been on the board turn 1 they might not have been annihilated by lucky shooting? Even if you lose all scoring units you can still prevent the enemy scoring.

[Tamwulf]

Lot's of people seem to think the only way to play BA is with DoA or Mech BA.

 

I like a combined arms approach. I roll with a couple Rhinos and Tactical Squads (OMG! NOOOO! Isn't that like, instant lose?), a couple jump pack Assault Squads, and a Death Company- on foot if I have a Storm Raven, with jump packs otherwise.

 

I'll take a Furiso, maybe a Baal Pred, sometimes a couple Drop Pods with a Sternguard or Dread...

 

I've tried the DoA thing a couple times, and I just didn't like it. Way too random. Sometimes, if the Dice are good, the army rocks and can't be stopped. Other times, I'll lose whole squads before they even get to shoot or assault. There just doesn't seem to be any close games with a DoA. I either win big, or lose big.

 

When I field a DoA army, I feel like I'm just rolling a die before the game starts- high roll I win, low roll, I lose.

 

Don't get discouraged, keep playing them! They just take some finesse, tactical awareness, and good dice rolls to use properly.

[TMK0377]

To all the guys who have responded here with advice, I really appreciate the help. I am now aware of a few rules and tactics that I was unaware of before. To respond to the guys who say I shouldn't have conceded the first game so quickly, I want you to know I don't normally quit so easily. I am a long time ork player who knows that the tides of battle can change, and I will normally fight to the last man. I have come back from really bad odds to win the game many times. I am very busy with real life obligations, and can normally only get in one or two games a month. I conceded my first game because I didn't think playing against an 1850 mech wolves list with @ a 500 point deficit would be very fun for me, or my opponent, and didn't want it to be the one game I play for the month. We agreed to start a new game knowing that it would be more enjoyable for the both of us. If I was trying to prepare this list for a tournament circuit or something like that, I would have played it out to see how bad it can get, but not for its virgin game in a friendly environment. I hope you guys understand where I am coming from.

[darkenedsquire]

Tactical squads aren't instant lose if I want to hold and objective and hold it well a taccy squad is my go to unit of choice some would say assault termies but id rather the be off killing than stood on an objective tactical squads can just lay on an objective and they always seem rather hard to shift when supported well.